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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward

Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward

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Old Apr 17, 19, 12:25 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: RNE
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Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis:
Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
http://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-...ail-need-know/
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
]https://www.doctorofcredit.com/has-c...-have-no-idea/
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
See the discussion at

Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(800) 453-9719 Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Old Mar 20, 19, 4:28 pm
  #2536  
RNE
 
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Originally Posted by AndWhatsYourPoint View Post
We don't churn like in the past, although we're slowly getting back into the swing of things. She is currently 1/24 with an 823 FICO, so unless Chase does take into consideration their exposure through her being an AU on several of my cards she should be okay.
Exposure doesn't matter for 5/24.
Her 1/24 doesn't matter if she's 5/24 from being your UA.
Churning doesn't matter. What matters is how many new cards were opened in the last 24 months (AUs included).
Yes, you can always call reconsideration. I'm merely signing the downside of AU accounts.
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Old Mar 21, 19, 11:26 am
  #2537  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
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Applied for Chase United Explorer Biz card last Thursday 3/14 (2+ months since last Chase app on 1/10/19), not automatically approved as expected, received letter in the mail yesterday 3/20 saying "too many credit cards opened in the last two years associated with you" so here I am scratching my head.

I thought I've kept pretty good track of all my cards since starting churning and should still be at 4/24: CSP (10/2017), Chase United MPE (7/9/18), CIP SSN (9/13/18), Barclays Aviator Biz (10/4/18), Citi AA Biz (10/4/18), AmEx SPG Biz (10/16/18), AmEx BGR (11/7/18), Chase SW RR Personal (11/15/18), AmEx Biz Plat (12/13/18), AmEx HH Biz (12/14/18), Chase Hyatt (1/10/19). By my count and understanding since business cards don't count towards 5/24, that should be 4, right?

On my creditkarma report (if accurate/reliable for this case), it lists [five](https://imgur.com/7Vse9cU) Chase cards in the past two years including the CIP business one 6 months ago. Is that possibly what Chase sees or it's just automatically loaded for CK? Fwiw, none of the AmEx or Citi business cards show up.

Given this information, how should I approach the recon call? Is it even a 5/24 concern and I should try calling to clarify, is it too many cards applied for and opened in general in a tight span of time? Any help and insight is greatly appreciated.
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Old Mar 21, 19, 11:56 am
  #2538  
mia
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Credit Karma cannot know about an account unless the issuer reports. Are you sure the extra Chase card is the INK Preferred, rather than another personal card that you may have closed and overlooked?
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Old Mar 21, 19, 12:06 pm
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
Credit Karma cannot know about an account unless the issuer reports. Are you sure the extra Chase card is the INK Preferred, rather than another personal card that you may have closed and overlooked?
Yeah, it appears that it is an AU account's personal card so I'll need to request via SM to remove AU and from my credit report and recon within 30 days. How long does it take to remove AU and when/how early should I call recon?
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Old Mar 21, 19, 12:18 pm
  #2540  
 
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Originally Posted by wallyt1215 View Post
Yeah, it appears that it is an AU account's personal card so I'll need to request via SM to remove AU and from my credit report and recon within 30 days. How long does it take to remove AU and when/how early should I call recon?
If you are an AU for another primary cardholder, you can request to cancel your AU card and call Chase Credit Bureau Services and ask them to alert the credit bureaus to remove the account from your credit report. The process usually takes about 1 - 2 weeks start to finish.

You can call Chase recon now and explain the AU situation and see if they'll understand. IME Chase biz recon is actually pretty tough, so instead you may wish to consider calling recon as soon as you see the account drop off your relevant credit bureau credit report(s) (that depends on where you live and what card applying for, etc, check the boards to see what bureau Chase pulls from for your situation). In that way you might increase your odds of success in dealing with them. Best of luck.
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Old Mar 21, 19, 12:30 pm
  #2541  
 
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It may be simpler to have the primary cardholder make the call to Chase.
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Old Mar 21, 19, 1:54 pm
  #2542  
mia
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Originally Posted by wallyt1215 View Post
.... AU account's personal card so I'll need to request via SM to remove AU and from my credit report ....
Do you mean that (1) you are the authorized user on someone else's account -or- that (2) someone else is an AU on one of your accounts? The second scenario should not appear on your credit report.
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Old Mar 22, 19, 5:36 am
  #2543  
 
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Originally Posted by wallyt1215 View Post
Applied for Chase United Explorer Biz card last Thursday 3/14 (2+ months since last Chase app on 1/10/19), not automatically approved as expected, received letter in the mail yesterday 3/20 saying "too many credit cards opened in the last two years associated with you" so here I am scratching my head.

I thought I've kept pretty good track of all my cards since starting churning and should still be at 4/24: CSP (10/2017), Chase United MPE (7/9/18), CIP SSN (9/13/18), Barclays Aviator Biz (10/4/18), Citi AA Biz (10/4/18), AmEx SPG Biz (10/16/18), AmEx BGR (11/7/18), Chase SW RR Personal (11/15/18), AmEx Biz Plat (12/13/18), AmEx HH Biz (12/14/18), Chase Hyatt (1/10/19). By my count and understanding since business cards don't count towards 5/24, that should be 4, right?

On my creditkarma report (if accurate/reliable for this case), it lists [five](https://imgur.com/7Vse9cU) Chase cards in the past two years including the CIP business one 6 months ago. Is that possibly what Chase sees or it's just automatically loaded for CK? Fwiw, none of the AmEx or Citi business cards show up.

Given this information, how should I approach the recon call? Is it even a 5/24 concern and I should try calling to clarify, is it too many cards applied for and opened in general in a tight span of time? Any help and insight is greatly appreciated.
Seeing that 4 of your Chase cards are under 9 months old, possibly Chase internal system feels that they have extended enough cards and max limit to you? If only the latter is the problem, you might be able to relocate credit from CIP.

I applied for the Chase United Biz on March 17 and got approved on March 21 for just $5,000. It seems like I'm near the maximum credit Chase is willing to extend to me as I typically get approved for a 5 figure limit in the recent past.

----------

My question:

My Chase card history:
Current: Chase IHG since Aug 2014
Current: Chase CSP since Feb 2018 (I have decided to keep this card a 2nd year)
Closed: Chase CIP opened in Apr 2017 and closed in May 2018.
Just approved: Chase United Biz Mar 2019

Currently at 3/24 and planning to only apply for Barclay Arrival+ in May 2019 before another CIP.

I hope apply for my second CIP in late 2019/early 2020. Do you recommend me to lower my other Chase card limits if I want to avoid having to recon? Would holding a Chase Business card (United) lower my chances of getting approved for the CIP?
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Old Mar 24, 19, 11:11 am
  #2544  
 
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Originally Posted by hightide View Post
I applied for the Chase United Biz on March 17 and got approved on March 21 for just $5,000. It seems like I'm near the maximum credit Chase is willing to extend to me as I typically get approved for a 5 figure limit in the recent past.

----------

My question:

Do you recommend me to lower my other Chase card limits if I want to avoid having to recon?
You pretty much answered your own question. If all Chase would give you last time was $5K, you are bumping up against the upper limit they will give you, and next time you may just get a denial. Assuming you have a CL on one or more of your Chase cards that exceeds what you tend to use in a billing period definitely lower the CL on a card or two.

When my TCCL was $60K, I not only had to call Recon every time, the app had to be approved by a 'senior analyst' even after the first person recommended it for approval. Once I lowered my TCCL to $20K I started getting auto approvals again.
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Old Mar 24, 19, 12:07 pm
  #2545  
 
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Not sure how widely known this is, just figure'd I'd share some info from an attempt to apply with a BRM in branch for a CIP. Just took a trip to California and when I had some downtime I figure'd I'd drop by a Chase branch and apply for a CIP with a BRM since we don't have any Chase banks here in Hawaii, and I'm over 5/24. Talked to the BRM, and there's only 2 ways you can successfully apply in branch if you're over 5/24. Both ways use the "docu-sign" method with a BRM.

1. You have to already have a seasoned Chase business account.
or
2. The BRM has to do a site visit of your business.

Since I don't have a Chase biz account and my business is in Hawaii, no dice.

Originally Posted by RobertHanson View Post
You pretty much answered your own question. If all Chase would give you last time was $5K, you are bumping up against the upper limit they will give you, and next time you may just get a denial. Assuming you have a CL on one or more of your Chase cards that exceeds what you tend to use in a billing period definitely lower the CL on a card or two.

When my TCCL was $60K, I not only had to call Recon every time, the app had to be approved by a 'senior analyst' even after the first person recommended it for approval. Once I lowered my TCCL to $20K I started getting auto approvals again.
The United biz card is a Chase signature card IIR, and Chase signature cards have a $5k minimum CL (similar to how Chase infinite cards have a $10k minimum CL), so you hit it on the nose when you stated they are bumping against the upper limit Chase will give them.
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Old Mar 24, 19, 2:12 pm
  #2546  
 
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Originally Posted by 808traveler View Post
Not sure how widely known this is, just figure'd I'd share some info from an attempt to apply with a BRM in branch for a CIP. Just took a trip to California and when I had some downtime I figure'd I'd drop by a Chase branch and apply for a CIP with a BRM since we don't have any Chase banks here in Hawaii, and I'm over 5/24. Talked to the BRM, and there's only 2 ways you can successfully apply in branch if you're over 5/24. Both ways use the "docu-sign" method with a BRM.

1. You have to already have a seasoned Chase business account.
or
2. The BRM has to do a site visit of your business.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending upon one's perspective), there are plenty of reports to the contrary. You just got a BRM that didn't want to help you.
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Old Mar 28, 19, 5:27 pm
  #2547  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Here's a data point from today:
I am currently 9/24, went in branch and banker saw a pre-approve CSP. I applied and was approved on the spot.
CL: 24K
CS: 800/815
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Old Mar 28, 19, 5:53 pm
  #2548  
 
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I just checked my Chase account and the credit score info page is missing 5/24 info, I'm very sure it's there last week but suddenly disappeared, any one?
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Old Mar 28, 19, 6:10 pm
  #2549  
 
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Originally Posted by tomwhom View Post
I just checked my Chase account and the credit score info page is missing 5/24 info, I'm very sure it's there last week but suddenly disappeared, any one?
Are you referring to the free Chase Credit Journey? I haven’t signed up for that given it offers VantageScore rather than FICO, but I would be interested in seeing the 5/24 info, if available; haven’t heard about it until now.
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Old Mar 28, 19, 6:44 pm
  #2550  
 
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Originally Posted by tomwhom View Post
I just checked my Chase account and the credit score info page is missing 5/24 info, I'm very sure it's there last week but suddenly disappeared, any one?
I just checked mine. You are right, it is not there anymore. The 5/24 information was somewhat accurate when it lasted.
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