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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward

Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward

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Old May 3, 19, 2:20 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
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Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis:
Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
http://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-...ail-need-know/
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
]https://www.doctorofcredit.com/has-c...-have-no-idea/
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
See the discussion at

Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Old Jan 24, 19, 2:16 pm
  #2386  
RNE
 
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Originally Posted by Magic Pickles View Post
I suggest on May 1, PC from CFU to a second CF
Good suggestion. Thanks. I considered that, but my wife has two CF that I use as my own. I struggle to max out three CFs already; a fourth would be a real challenge. Also, I'd like to lower my $53k CL with Chase; eliminating my CFU's $24k would shrink that sum a lot.

Also, apply for Ink first and get approved before going for CFU.
OK. Thanks. Just so I know, what's the reasoning for this?
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Old Jan 24, 19, 4:28 pm
  #2387  
 
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
If those accounts were opened in the past 24 months, Chase's automated process will count them the same as if he had opened them. When he receives the letter he can call and explain that he is an Authorized User on those accounts, and responsible for payment. The agent can manually adjust for those.

If that's not the problem, then perhaps he needs to look at his credit report to see if there is any unauthorized activity.
Very grateful to you for responding, Mia.
I will follow through with your suggestions and report back.

Thank you!
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Old Jan 24, 19, 7:39 pm
  #2388  
 
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
Good suggestion. Thanks. I considered that, but my wife has two CF that I use as my own. I struggle to max out three CFs already; a fourth would be a real challenge. Also, I'd like to lower my $53k CL with Chase; eliminating my CFU's $24k would shrink that sum a lot.

OK. Thanks. Just so I know, what's the reasoning for this?
Business card apps get declined if there is already 1 application (business or personal) within 30 days or the 1/30 rule, so you need to be at 0/30 when applying . If you do the CFU first you’ll need to wait at least 30 days or you’ll be declined.
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Old Jan 25, 19, 6:42 am
  #2389  
 
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
OK. Thanks. Just so I know, what's the reasoning for this?
I second what Magic Pickles wrote about the order of applications. Let your Ink application run its course to approval. Then wait one more day before applying for CFU.

Given your situation with multiple Freedom cards, I have no issue with your choice to cancel your existing CFU instead of product changing.
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Old Jan 25, 19, 11:30 am
  #2390  
 
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
When he receives the letter he can call and explain that he is an Authorized User on those accounts, and responsible for payment. The agent can manually adjust for those.
Originally Posted by surikatina View Post
Very grateful to you for responding, Mia.
I will follow through with your suggestions and report back.
Mia's advice is sound, but there is a critical word missing. He can call and explain that he is an AU on those accounts, and not responsible for payment. (You may have understood that, but just in case...)
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Old Jan 25, 19, 11:54 am
  #2391  
 
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Originally Posted by Rare View Post
Mia's advice is sound, but there is a critical word missing. He can call and explain that he is an AU on those accounts, and not responsible for payment. (You may have understood that, but just in case...)

Thanks, Rare.

I did catch that, but appreciate your follow up notation in the chance I might not have..
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Old Jan 26, 19, 10:25 am
  #2392  
 
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I recently cancelled my Chase Southwest card ~2 weeks ago. I would like to apply for a Business INK card and then after that I would like to apply for a United Explorer card. How long should I wait (or does it even matter) after cancelling the Southwest Card before applying for the Business INK Card? Assuming I get approved, How long should I wait until I apply for United Explorer. I am currently 4/24 with Chase, but may go down to 3/24 in several months.
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Old Jan 26, 19, 2:11 pm
  #2393  
 
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Under 5/24, 800+ credit, denied chase ink cash

I started a law firm with my wife last November. I have been running all our business expenses on my various personal cards to maximize spend. However, this was creating too much of a headache to keep my business organized so it was only logical to get a dedicated business card.

The last card card I got was over a year ago. I think I am 3/24. Low 800s credit score. 100% legitimate business, LLP entity. Got an auto denial for the ink cash. Called business recon. They had a bunch of questions about my business. I gave them conservative numbers that was 200k gross projected and 150k net. These are conservative numbers based on when the business started to date. My gross is going to be closer to 240-260k most likely.

Anyway, the agent basically explained that I have too much existing credit relative to my income. I offered to close my southwest card if needed. I don’t put any real spend on it and the CL is only 5k. They said due to my credit vs income my application would require approval by two individuals and that it would be 1-3 business days for the second review. It’s been 4 business days and no update and the card does not appear in my account.

Its a little frustrating that that I cannot get a business credit card with a business that’s my full time job, good credit, and under 5/24. Any advice or opinions? Now that I closed my southwest card any harm in applying again?

My current cards for reference: csr, fu, freedom, Amazon, Hyatt, Southwest (now closed voluntarily), amex platinum, amex gold (authorized user), British airways (authorized user).
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Old Jan 26, 19, 2:29 pm
  #2394  
mia
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Originally Posted by slm9555 View Post
....1-3 business days for the second review. It’s been 4 business days and no update and the card does not appear in my account.

Its a little frustrating that that I cannot get a business credit card .....
If you have not been notified of the outcome of the review how do you conclude that you cannot get the card? For guidance, Chase will not add a business card to your personal profile. You will need to create a separate online account for the business card.
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Old Jan 26, 19, 2:37 pm
  #2395  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
If you have not been notified of the outcome of the review how do you conclude that you cannot get the card? For guidance, Chase will not add a business card to your personal profile. You will need to create a separate online account for the business card.
i forgot to mention I have my chase business checking account, business trust account, and business savings account. The card does not show up on my chase business login.
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Old Jan 26, 19, 2:48 pm
  #2396  
 
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I canceled my SWA card about 6 months ago, applied for Ink pref + Ink Cash 30 days apart. I don't think there is a formal rule here but Chase might not like me getting this many cards in short period of time and I am not sure if I should push my luck on getting a new personal card. What are you guys thoughts and experiences?

If I am at 5/24 and one of my cards I applied for was on 3/1/17. Would I be at 4/24 on 3/2/19 or is it recommended to wait a few extra days to be safe?
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Old Jan 26, 19, 3:52 pm
  #2397  
 
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Originally Posted by pdragn78 View Post
I recently cancelled my Chase Southwest card ~2 weeks ago. I would like to apply for a Business INK card and then after that I would like to apply for a United Explorer card. How long should I wait (or does it even matter) after cancelling the Southwest Card before applying for the Business INK Card? Assuming I get approved, How long should I wait until I apply for United Explorer. I am currently 4/24 with Chase, but may go down to 3/24 in several months.
I think applying for the Ink now is ok. Then wait 30 days after Ink app to apply for the United card. I think it is also important to consider your overall length as a Chase customer, the total of Chase cards you have and the total amount of credit you have between your cards. I recently got approved for 2 Ink cards that were spaced 30 days apart. I had canceled my SWA card about 6 months before that.
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Old Jan 27, 19, 9:39 am
  #2398  
 
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Originally Posted by slm9555 View Post
I started a law firm with my wife last November. I have been running all our business expenses on my various personal cards to maximize spend. However, this was creating too much of a headache to keep my business organized so it was only logical to get a dedicated business card.

The last card card I got was over a year ago. I think I am 3/24. Low 800s credit score. 100% legitimate business, LLP entity. Got an auto denial for the ink cash. Called business recon. They had a bunch of questions about my business. I gave them conservative numbers that was 200k gross projected and 150k net. These are conservative numbers based on when the business started to date. My gross is going to be closer to 240-260k most likely.

Anyway, the agent basically explained that I have too much existing credit relative to my income. I offered to close my southwest card if needed. I don’t put any real spend on it and the CL is only 5k. They said due to my credit vs income my application would require approval by two individuals and that it would be 1-3 business days for the second review. It’s been 4 business days and no update and the card does not appear in my account.

Its a little frustrating that that I cannot get a business credit card with a business that’s my full time job, good credit, and under 5/24. Any advice or opinions? Now that I closed my southwest card any harm in applying again?

My current cards for reference: csr, fu, freedom, Amazon, Hyatt, Southwest (now closed voluntarily), amex platinum, amex gold (authorized user), British airways (authorized user).
The one thing you left out is how large a CL you have with Chase. Several years ago I got a pending notice on a Chase personal app. When I called Recon, the CSR said "I'm going to recommend approval, but your app has to be reviewed by a senior credit analyst because of all the credit you already have with us". I took the hint, and lowered my total Chase CL from $60K to $20K. I haven't had an app need to go thru secondary review since then.

It used to be recommended that you keep excess CL with Chase to move to new apps. I haven't heard about anyone needing to do that for quite a while. At this point in time I'd say it's prudent to keep your TCCL low to get auto approvals, or at least easy Recon calls, rather than having excess CL to move to new cards. IMHO

I do realize it may be a bit of a problem for you, since you probably need a large CL to cover your business expenses. But you can look at your other Chase cards, and see how much you can reduce the CL on ones you don't use that much. Not that you need to close more cards that are useful to you, but if you rarely put more than $500 a billing period on a Freedom card, etc, lower that card's CL from $5K to $2K.
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Old Jan 27, 19, 12:23 pm
  #2399  
 
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Originally Posted by RobertHanson View Post
The one thing you left out is how large a CL you have with Chase. Several years ago I got a pending notice on a Chase personal app. When I called Recon, the CSR said "I'm going to recommend approval, but your app has to be reviewed by a senior credit analyst because of all the credit you already have with us". I took the hint, and lowered my total Chase CL from $60K to $20K. I haven't had an app need to go thru secondary review since then.

It used to be recommended that you keep excess CL with Chase to move to new apps. I haven't heard about anyone needing to do that for quite a while. At this point in time I'd say it's prudent to keep your TCCL low to get auto approvals, or at least easy Recon calls, rather than having excess CL to move to new cards. IMHO

I do realize it may be a bit of a problem for you, since you probably need a large CL to cover your business expenses. But you can look at your other Chase cards, and see how much you can reduce the CL on ones you don't use that much. Not that you need to close more cards that are useful to you, but if you rarely put more than $500 a billing period on a Freedom card, etc, lower that card's CL from $5K to $2K.
Thank you for your feedback. I have roughly 60-70k CL with Chase.

I did get two letters in today's mail. The first dated January 21, 2019, stating the reason for denial was due to having opened too many cards in the past two years. However, I am very confident that I am under 5/24. The second letter was dated the following day and requested me to call Chase back to provide additional business information, but it looked like they wanted the same information that I already provided over the phone... I will call Chase back on Monday.
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Old Jan 27, 19, 7:57 pm
  #2400  
 
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Originally Posted by slm9555 View Post
Thank you for your feedback. I have roughly 60-70k CL with Chase.

I did get two letters in today's mail. The first dated January 21, 2019, stating the reason for denial was due to having opened too many cards in the past two years. However, I am very confident that I am under 5/24. The second letter was dated the following day and requested me to call Chase back to provide additional business information, but it looked like they wanted the same information that I already provided over the phone... I will call Chase back on Monday.

Have you been added as an authorized user on any other accounts in the past 2 years? If so, those will show up as your accounts but you can have them dig deeper to see that you are an AU. Be sure to mention that specifically, and that you are not responsible for repayment on those.

Easy enough to use one of the free services available and see your total open accounts. If 5 or more have been opened in your name in the last 24 months, then that is that.
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