Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
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This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

Old Nov 9, 2018, 3:32 pm
  #2161  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 262
Originally Posted by macboss
I just applied the link above and got instant approval. I then applied for the SW Business card for 60k bonus points but got a "we will review and get back to you".

I called them and was told I need to fax them docs to verify my business name/address and my personal address. I put my old LLC which I have a business checking account with Chase but the LLC was dissolved a few years ago. I can show them the old LLC registration but it had my old address. Is there anyway other way to get the card approved?

If my SW Business card is declined, how can I get the other 60k points to meet the 110k for companion pass?

Thanks,
Thanks for posting; this got me thinking that if aiming for Southwest companion pass (CP) with two credit cards (personal and business) that one should get the business card first to ensure that one can at least secure this signup bonus. In addition, having the business card first, it won't count on the 5/24. I am basing this on the fact that getting the personal credit card is easier than getting approved for the business card. If can't get business card and no other way of meeting the 110K requirement, then no need to apply for the personal card if your goal is to get CP.
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Old Nov 10, 2018, 11:33 am
  #2162  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Half time in PDX, Half time in Ajijic, Mexico. Near GDL
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 181
Would appreciate some advice. I have made a big mistake I think. I applied for the Chase Explorer earlier this week and was told you'll hear from us within 30 days.
It did not occur to me that:
--I had just paid my property taxes with my Chase Freedom, using $12,215 of my $16,500 credit limit. Payment on it won't be due until Dec 18.
--I also bought a car on my Citibank Mastercard and that used $23,351 of my $68,900 credit limit. Payment is due Nov 28.
--My Sapphire Preferred is just $210 of $10,000 credit limit.
--I pay off my cards in full every month and have for years and years.
--I checked my credit rating and it was 733 on one and 802 on the other. I assume the difference is the credit pull that Chase did when I submitted the application.
I am concerned Chase may feel the current amount of my credit limit I have used is too high (.387%). Do you have any idea?

What should I do? Should I pay off the $12,215 and the $23,351 now and then call Chase and tell them? Or should I wait until the day before they are due like I usually do? Or should I just be quiet and see what happens? Would appreciate your thoughts.
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Old Nov 10, 2018, 6:08 pm
  #2163  
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Originally Posted by ttervooren
Would appreciate some advice. I have made a big mistake I think. I applied for the Chase Explorer earlier this week and was told you'll hear from us within 30 days.
It did not occur to me that:
--I had just paid my property taxes with my Chase Freedom, using $12,215 of my $16,500 credit limit. Payment on it won't be due until Dec 18.
--I also bought a car on my Citibank Mastercard and that used $23,351 of my $68,900 credit limit. Payment is due Nov 28.
--My Sapphire Preferred is just $210 of $10,000 credit limit.
--I pay off my cards in full every month and have for years and years.
--I checked my credit rating and it was 733 on one and 802 on the other. I assume the difference is the credit pull that Chase did when I submitted the application.
I am concerned Chase may feel the current amount of my credit limit I have used is too high (.387%). Do you have any idea?

What should I do? Should I pay off the $12,215 and the $23,351 now and then call Chase and tell them? Or should I wait until the day before they are due like I usually do? Or should I just be quiet and see what happens? Would appreciate your thoughts.
Just sit tight. If you are denied you can call reconsideration dept. and ask what you need to do to be approved.
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Old Nov 11, 2018, 9:00 am
  #2164  
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by ttervooren
Would appreciate some advice. I have made a big mistake I think. I applied for the Chase Explorer earlier this week and was told you'll hear from us within 30 days.
It did not occur to me that:
--I had just paid my property taxes with my Chase Freedom, using $12,215 of my $16,500 credit limit. Payment on it won't be due until Dec 18.
--I also bought a car on my Citibank Mastercard and that used $23,351 of my $68,900 credit limit. Payment is due Nov 28.

I am concerned Chase may feel the current amount of my credit limit I have used is too high (.387%). Do you have any idea?

What should I do? Should I pay off the $12,215 and the $23,351 now and then call Chase and tell them? Or should I wait until the day before they are due like I usually do? Or should I just be quiet and see what happens? Would appreciate your thoughts.
\

If it were me, I would pay off the Chase card right now and bring that $12K down to zero. Then, internally, Chase will see that it's paid when they review your application. I'd do that prior to a phone call to them. Credit is issued based on perceived ability to repay. Why have them have to analyze any negative factors, such as a current debt to them of $12K? Next, I'd look and see when the next Citi statement closes. It's usually after the due date, though. That won't really help you if your debt ratio shows up on your credit pull. So it may be a moot point as far as this application goes, and irrelevant to you. As a best practice, it's good to keep big debts off of your credit report, if there's a chance that you'll be applying for cards. You can do this by paying before the statement closes, so that 0 will post to your report. Next best is to zero out debt to the issuer that you are asking for more credit from, in this case, Chase.
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Old Nov 12, 2018, 10:09 pm
  #2165  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,328
Originally Posted by mia
Indeed, but the time restriction is now 48 months, as shown in the terms of the offer:
48 months? I had no idea! It doesn’t matter much to me anyway, four years ago in two months my wife and I got the Freedom and Sapphire respectively, and we have had so much fun with the UR points that we haven’t thought of applying for any cards since then.
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Old Nov 13, 2018, 11:55 am
  #2166  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Programs: N/A
Posts: 685
Could anyone kindly advise on what the most recommended card strategy is for someone starting out at 1/24? I'd like to get the Amex plat but it seems wise to approach chase cards first?

Thanks!
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Old Nov 13, 2018, 11:58 am
  #2167  
mia
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Originally Posted by JBG89
.... like to get the Amex plat....
If the Business Platinum has the features that you need you could apply for it now, because the account would be invisible to Chase.
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Old Nov 13, 2018, 12:14 pm
  #2168  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,328
While some wholesome credit history is advised, it doesn’t look like you necessarily need a score in the 800s.

https://www.johnnyjet.com/what-credi...ress-platinum/

Some income is generally always appreciated by Amex.

(I recently received offers from Amex for the Platinum as well as the Premier Rewards Gold, but am for good for now.)
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 10:42 am
  #2169  
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Originally Posted by JBG89
Could anyone kindly advise on what the most recommended card strategy is for someone starting out at 1/24? I'd like to get the Amex plat but it seems wise to approach chase cards first?

Thanks!
It completely depends on how many Chase cards subject to 5/24 you want to get and when (and in what order), and what mix of personal and business cards (business cards from most banks don't count toward 5/24 because they don't show up on the credit reports that Chase uses to evaluate your 5/24 status). For example, a card not being subject to 5/24 only helps if you apply for it last, a card not subject to 5/24 can still add to your N/24 count if it's a personal card.

So, for example, if you want to apply for only two personal Chase cards subject to 5/24 in the next two years, it wouldn't hurt to do the Amex Plat first. But if you want to apply for 3, you'd have to do all those 3 Chase cards first and only then do the Amex Plat.
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 11:04 am
  #2170  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,328
The Chase 5/24 rule says that “You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months.” Any bank.

So how does Chase determine which cards you have opened at various banks? It’s not my impression that Chase has access to your credit reports, unless 1) you apply for a Chase card, or 2) you have opted in on the Chase Credit Journey offer.

So if you have opened and closed a card within the last 24 months and you have requested such a closed card to be removed from your credit files, how does Chase know?
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 12:38 pm
  #2171  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by vanillabean

So if you have opened and closed a card within the last 24 months and you have requested such a closed card to be removed from your credit files, how does Chase know?
I doubt you can have a closed card removed from your Credit file. Open or closed, it's still part of your credit history, and will remain there for years, even after it is closed.
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 1:58 pm
  #2172  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,328
Originally Posted by RobertHanson
I doubt you can have a closed card removed from your Credit file. Open or closed, it's still part of your credit history, and will remain there for years, even after it is closed.
A URL such as the following may be helpful. The assumption of course is that the account requested to be removed was closed while in good standing. Your request may or may not be approved, but you are always free to make the request. I have a firsthand knowledge of one instance of such an account being removed by sending a request to the credit card company.

https://www.thebalance.com/how-can-i...-report-960399
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 3:22 pm
  #2173  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by JBG89
Could anyone kindly advise on what the most recommended card strategy is for someone starting out at 1/24? I'd like to get the Amex plat but it seems wise to approach chase cards first?

Thanks!
First, pretty much any Business cards you want, since they don't count for 5/24. Then any of the Chase personal cards that are restricted to 5/24. Finally any personal cards from any bank. But not too many ccs too fast. Banks will see the fast churn and get spooked. Chase is even known to close down accounts merely based on too many accounts opened in too short a time. Don't think of this as a sprint, think of it as a marathon. Pace yourself for the best returns.
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 3:45 pm
  #2174  
mia
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Originally Posted by vanillabean
....It’s not my impression that Chase has access to your credit reports, unless 1) you apply for a Chase card, or 2) you have opted in on the Chase Credit Journey offer.
Chase, or any other issuer, can look at your credit file even if you have not submitted an application:

Soft inquiries (also known as “soft pulls”) typically occur when a person or company checks your credit as part of a background check. This may occur, for example, when a credit card issuer checks your credit without your permission to see if you qualify for certain credit card offers.
https://www.creditkarma.com/advice/i...dit-inquiries/
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Old Nov 14, 2018, 3:52 pm
  #2175  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
Do store cards count towards 5/24 now??

I applied for the Ink Unlimited today and was immediately rejected for having too many new accounts in the last 24 months. I applied for 5 new accounts in the last 2 years but one of those is a Nordstrom store card(not the Visa version...can only be used in a store). I called the reconsideration line twice and the reps told me that the Nordstrom card counts toward the new accounts. I tried to explain that the store card isn't a visa but they didn't seem to care. Should I keep trying to call in and get approved or is this a new change?
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