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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.
All Chase issued cards are here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old Mar 21, 2017, 7:38 pm
  #436  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Posts: 236
Originally Posted by bbriscoe34
With or without AF waived?

Can't you still get the AF waived in branch on Marriott?
With AF. Sadly no branches around me (being in VA) but if it is possible to get the AF waived I think I will have to jump on it. Any comments if it is possible to get even the sign up AF waived?
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Old Mar 21, 2017, 7:55 pm
  #437  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Originally Posted by pattermj
With AF. Sadly no branches around me (being in VA) but if it is possible to get the AF waived I think I will have to jump on it. Any comments if it is possible to get even the sign up AF waived?
It never hurts to ask. I was approved for the SW Premier with the 50K bonus and inquired with a banker about getting the fee waived. I am NOT Chase Private Client. A discussion on the phone with the credit card division went back and forth for almost 10 minutes. It ended with a refusal to waive the fee. The banker hung up, annoyed. And then she offered to apply a $60 credit to my checking account. It appeared in a day or two as some sort of miscellaneous credit. Not the full $99 waived but much better than if I hadn't asked at all.
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Old Mar 21, 2017, 11:34 pm
  #438  
 
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Originally Posted by sdsearch
Because 5/24 counts the number of bank cards that show up on your credit report with an "opened on" date in the past 24 months.

And charge cards count if they're from banks and appear on your credit report, they don't count if they're not from banks or if they don't appear on your credit report. So why your focus on charge vs credit cards?
Which leaves us with the question of what is meant by "from banks". If (as is the case here) a card is from Synchrony* -- a bank -- then it would count whether it's a Visa or a "store card", no?

Not 2 weeks ago, I was informed here in no uncertain terms that a card from Synchrony* counted, period.

* There is no "Synchronicity" bank; I'm assuming the OP meant "Synchrony".
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Old Mar 22, 2017, 12:08 pm
  #439  
 
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Originally Posted by SpammersAreScum
Which leaves us with the question of what is meant by "from banks". If (as is the case here) a card is from Synchrony* -- a bank -- then it would count whether it's a Visa or a "store card", no?

Not 2 weeks ago, I was informed here in no uncertain terms that a card from Synchrony* counted, period.

* There is no "Synchronicity" bank; I'm assuming the OP meant "Synchrony".
Thank you. On my CR my Synchrony card is counted as a bank card. That's why I asked my question up thread. Even though it has a store name on the card and is Not Visa MC Discover DC JCB Or AX, it has 16 digits and is marked on the CR as a Bank card!
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Old Mar 22, 2017, 1:06 pm
  #440  
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Originally Posted by eajusa
Thank you. On my CR my Synchrony card is counted as a bank card. That's why I asked my question up thread. Even though it has a store name on the card and is Not Visa MC Discover DC JCB Or AX, it has 16 digits and is marked on the CR as a Bank card!
If a store card is issued by a bank then it may be a bank card as well as a store card, I guess. But there are certainly some other store cards which are not bank cards.

So while it may be correct to say that Chase counts only bank cards, it's not correct to say that Chase doesn't count any store cards, since it presumably counts store cards which are also bank cards.

That seems analogous to the fact that it's not correct to say that Chase doesn't count business cards. Chase simply doesn't count cards (at least from other banks) that don't appear on your credit report, for whatever reason they don't appear on your credit report. If they don't appear on your credit report because they're business cards, that's fine. But Capital One business cards do appear on credit reports, and they may not be the only bank, though they're certainly the main bank that attracts the miles/points community that does that. So it's only correct to say that 5/24 doesn't count (non-Chase) cards that don't appear on your credit report, it's not necessarily correct to try to "shortcut" that by mentioning business cards.

So there's no substitute for looking at your own credit report, and understanding it well, for "forecasting" what Chase would see.
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Old Mar 23, 2017, 8:57 am
  #441  
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Sent Chase a secure message through the online account to ask about the deadline to meet the spend requirement to get the full sign-up bonus on a Chase Sapphire Reserve account signed up for online around January 10th or so.

Chase sent a message back saying that the deadline to meet the spending requirement was in May, some date in the second week of May. Chase also mentioned the amount of money left to be spent by that May date to trigger the bonus.

Any incidents where Chase's responses like this were not accurate?

Originally Posted by Chase
Hello [NAME],

Thank you for contacting Chase about the sign up bonus
offer on your Chase Sapphire Reserve account.

We reviewed the application you submitted and have
confirmed the offer was to earn 100,000 bonus points after
you spend $4,000 on purchases in the first 3 months from
account opening After qualifying, please allow 6 to 8
weeks after the billing cycle in which you qualify for the
bonus to post to your account.

As of today, you have made a total spend of $X,XXX.XX.
Hence, the remaining amount of $X,XXX.XX is to be spent by
05/XX/2017 to be eligible to earn the bonus points.

[NAME], purchases do not include balance transfers, cash
advances, and cash-like charges such as traveler?s checks,
foreign currency, and money orders, any checks that access
your account, overdraft advances, interest, unauthorized
or fraudulent charges, or fees of any kind, including an
annual fee, if applicable.

This bonus offer is available to you as long as you have
not received a new Cardmember bonus for this product in
the past 24 months. Your account must be open and not in
default at the time of fulfillment.

Please send us a secure message or call us at the number
on the back of your card if you have any questions. Thank
you for being our customer. We appreciate your business.

Thank you,
XXXXXX XXXXX
Chase Email Servicing
1-800-XXX-XXXX
It seems to be closer to 4 months to qualify for the bonus than 3 months. Is this frequently true? I did read above about there sometimes being up to 114 days of time to qualify for this kind of bonus for "3 months" spending, but this seems to push things pretty far.
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Old Mar 23, 2017, 11:35 am
  #442  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Sent Chase a secure message through the online account to ask about the deadline to meet the spend requirement to get the full sign-up bonus on a Chase Sapphire Reserve account signed up for online around January 10th or so.

Chase sent a message back saying that the deadline to meet the spending requirement was in May, some date in the second week of May. Chase also mentioned the amount of money left to be spent by that May date to trigger the bonus.

Any incidents where Chase's responses like this were not accurate?



It seems to be closer to 4 months to qualify for the bonus than 3 months. Is this frequently true? I did read above about there sometimes being up to 114 days of time to qualify for this kind of bonus for "3 months" spending, but this seems to push things pretty far.
Mine was also 3 1/2+ months when I checked and no problem with bonus. Remember you now have it in writing.
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Old Mar 23, 2017, 12:58 pm
  #443  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 159
Chase personal card app on same day biz card app is pending

I'd like to apply for the Chase Freedom Unlimited, but just applied for the Chase Ink Cash a few minutes ago (which went pending). I'm following all of the guidelines I've read that say not to call in, despite wanting to get the card ASAP (I'm sure everyone's familiar with that feeling).

My question is, should I/can I apply for the CFU today, the same day that my Chase Ink Cash application went into pending status? I would like the Hard Inquiries to be combined into 1 if possible. I'd rather not risk a 2nd hard inquiry for the CFU, especially since I'm not 100% certain I'm under 5/24 (I'm at it, if you count the Chase Ink Cash application that's pending and the Chase Ink Preferred that I opened a month ago).
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Old Mar 23, 2017, 4:45 pm
  #444  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 159
I ended up applying for the CFU now, a few hours after applying for the Chase Ink Cash. I got a message saying they need more time to review my application, and I'll hear about a decision by mail, up to 30 days. Hopefully I end up getting both cards and only 1 hard inquiry. Fingers crossed!
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Old Mar 24, 2017, 10:49 am
  #445  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Posts: 4,787
Ok, I think I understand all this, but want to be sure. Sorry in advance if I'm just going over old ground.

I'm at 5/24, but number 5 is about to drop off. I want to apply for the Business Preferred 80k. As I understand it, this card is subject to 5/24 but doesn't count toward 5/24. So, if I apply for it first and get approved, I should be able to apply for another chase card, say in a month or so, and still be regarded as 4/24.

Does that make sense, or does it not work that way?
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Old Mar 24, 2017, 2:33 pm
  #446  
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Originally Posted by lkar
Ok, I think I understand all this, but want to be sure. Sorry in advance if I'm just going over old ground.

I'm at 5/24, but number 5 is about to drop off. I want to apply for the Business Preferred 80k. As I understand it, this card is subject to 5/24 but doesn't count toward 5/24. So, if I apply for it first and get approved, I should be able to apply for another chase card, say in a month or so, and still be regarded as 4/24.

Does that make sense, or does it not work that way?
The Chase Ink Preferred does count towards 5/24, so if you would be back to 5/24 if you get approve for it.
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Old Mar 24, 2017, 2:59 pm
  #447  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by lkar
Ok, I think I understand all this, but want to be sure. Sorry in advance if I'm just going over old ground.

I'm at 5/24, but number 5 is about to drop off. I want to apply for the Business Preferred 80k. As I understand it, this card is subject to 5/24 but doesn't count toward 5/24. So, if I apply for it first and get approved, I should be able to apply for another chase card, say in a month or so, and still be regarded as 4/24.

Does that make sense, or does it not work that way?
I might be able to assist with a data point in a few weeks. Here's my situation with regard to cards and dates applied:

Chase Slate in July 2016 (8 months old)
Amazon Store Card in July 2016 (8 months old, and before I read up on CCs)
Sapphire Reserve in Feb 2017 (1 month old)
Ink Preferred in Feb 2017 (1 month old)
Ink Cash in March (yesterday)
Freedom Unlimited in March (yesterday, 4 hrs after Ink Cash)

All my other cards were 3+ years old, so no impact on 5/24. There are a few reasons why I thought I may still have a shot at the last 1, since mine seemed to be slightly different.

1) Do they count the Amazon store card? I've heard conflicting reports since I don't think it can be used anywhere else
2) Will they count the Ink Preferred, since it's on the business credit report?
3) Will they count the Ink Cash against me (for the same reasons as the Ink Preferred), assuming I get the Ink Cash?
4) Does the timing of the decision matter, since both Ink Cash and CFU went to pending?

I'll certainly post here once I have my results. I would definitely call in to check on the status of the personal, but I don't know how to be sure I won't be questioned about the business card. From what I've read, calling in on pending Personal cards is fine. But it's generally advisable not to call in on pending biz cards.
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Old Mar 24, 2017, 3:53 pm
  #448  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
Ok, thanks. Seems to be conflicting information on the Chase Ink Preferred and whether they count it toward 5/24. I thought I read on Dr. of Credit they don't, but maybe I'm mistaken. My wife has it, and it definitely does not show up on credit karma, but I guess that doesn't mean anything since Chase obviously knows she has it.
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Old Mar 24, 2017, 11:19 pm
  #449  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by lkar
Ok, thanks. Seems to be conflicting information on the Chase Ink Preferred and whether they count it toward 5/24. I thought I read on Dr. of Credit they don't, but maybe I'm mistaken. My wife has it, and it definitely does not show up on credit karma, but I guess that doesn't mean anything since Chase obviously knows she has it.
When I opened Ink Preferred, I was at 3/24 (4/24 if count authorized user). The next month, I opened Ink Cash and got approved. The oldest card in the last 24 months will not roll off till sometime in September.

So in my case, the Ink Preferred probably didn't count for 5/24.

For my wife, she was at 4/24 (5/24 if count authorized user). Applied for Ink Preferred and got denial letter due to too many accounts opened.
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Old Mar 25, 2017, 12:58 am
  #450  
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Posts: 202
Hi All,

I was denied twice Aug 2016 (6/24) & Jan 2017 (5/24) for the CSR due to "too many credit cards opened in the last 2 years".

One credit card dropped off today (3/24/2017), when should I apply for my 3rd and final time. If denied again, I really don't want to try anymore.

Thanks!
Lisa

Last edited by traveling_newbie; Mar 25, 2017 at 1:05 am
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