jediwho

I can see the value proposition over CSP but isn't comparing Ink to CSP or CSR like comparing apples and plums? INK gives you 5x at office supply stores up 50K of spending.

cdog999

Trying to figure out what do for my wife here. She is currently at 4/25. Originally was going to have her apply for CSP, but then I heard about the CSR back in late July so I decided to hold off on the CSP app.

But, I'm hearing rumblings that CSR might be exempt from 4/25. Any thoughts on doing a CSP and then a CSR app right after the CSP (assuming the CSP is auto-approved)? Since we know CSP is subject to 5/24 then maybe it makes sense to apply to that one first?

krazykanuck

My grandmother has had an Amex Platinum card for 5-10 years and I'd be willing to bet has never used a $1 of the airline fee credit. I'm sure there are far more people like her that don't use it at all, and many more that don't max it out. People like us are likely the vast minority of premium credit card holders...

penner42

If you spend that much at office supply stores, then obviously you should keep the premium Ink card, and maybe get the CSR as well to increase those points to be worth 1.5c if you don't transfer to partners. But if not, you can pair the CSR with the Ink Cash. You still get 5x on up to $25k at office supply stores, and get all the premium benefits from the CSR on those points.

If you're not spending over $25k on office supplies, there seems to be little reason to have an Ink as your only premium UR card.

phant0m

Does Ink Cash earn UR points like Freedom? My business expenses have dropped and I'm considering switching it.

smurov

I think this is so crucial, and many people on here lose sight of this. We really are a small, small percentage, but to be honest it really is easy to get wrapped up and think a lot of people out there are like us.

Overall, if I had to give a complete guess, I'd think that only 5% of cardholders take advantage of most or all of the card features on any given high-tier card (Platinum, Prestige, CSR, etc.). Another 20% use at least 50% of the perks. The other 75% I'd guess are using half or less of the perks for a wide-variety of reasons, such as: lack of knowledge, laziness, some other reason, or even people who have a Platinum just to be able to flash it (more people than you'd think).

For the industry I work in, manufacturers rely strongly on an offer redemption rate of 5-10%, otherwise they wouldn't be able to profitably continue doing the offers they do. We are always amazed at my company how low that is, considering that is 5-10% of people who purchased a specific quantity of product in order to "get" the deal in the first place, which can have a value of anything from $10 to $200+ per monthly order...

So the moral of the story is that the banks have these types of cards because they are making a good profit off of the majority of the card holders, including the perks given away. Based on their data, they know pretty well how many people will get the CSR over X period of time, and the exact % of how many of those people will not use the majority of the perks.

penner42

Yes, it earns the same UR points, and if you have a premium card you can transfer those points to the premium one and get all those benefits for those points.

josephstern

As far as usage of credit card fee rebates and privileges:

On the one hand, we all know of friends and family who recognize the benefits of a card, get it, and use the benefits for a bit of time, and then forget, their patterns change, the card changes, and the person is just too inertial to get over the hump of getting a new card, moving over the automated charges, setting it up with a new bank account, learning a new online statement format, etc. Credit card providers know that customers are sticky in this regard (like changing cell companies or insurance carriers or TV providers).

On the other hand, good benefits on good cards typically erode. The CSP lost it's 7% rebate, it's extra first Friday points, etc. Prestige is losing some lounge, changing the 4th night, no golf, etc. Platinum has been decimated in tons of ways. So that says that these providers are paying attention, and that enough customers are using the benefits to cost them real money. If the benefit users were only a small percentage of the customer base, they wouldn't bother changing the benefits because they could amortize the costs over the whole base including the non-users.

So I surmise from this that the average customer (from us super-users to those who use virtually no benefits) is costing these companies real money.

smurov

I see your point but I don't necessarily agree. While I think that a good amount of people on FT and other sites cause the banks to lose money, I still stand by my idea that the banks are still making money off of the majority of credit card users.

For some small things being taken away, it could very possibly be that they were losing money. But on the other hand, there could be outside things in play that you aren't taking into consideration.

Look at Prestige's loss of AA lounge access, for example. Isn't it a bit suspicious that it happened right after their renegotiation with AA? That could very well have been driven by AA and their addition of Barclays cards, among other reasons. Same goes for the other cuts on AA benefits.

Not saying Prestige wasn't too rich...just saying that there are so many external reasons that may cause a change - not always the small percentage of customers who game the system.

josephstern

I'm NOT saying it's due to the system-gamers. I'm saying it's due to the average customer.

smurov

Right, but what I'm saying is that the average customer is not taking enough advantage of the benefits in order to lose the banks money. So "average" should slip down closer to the "who use virtually no benefits" side, a bit further from system gamers.

Banks wouldn't keep coming out with cards like these if there wasn't money to make. These businesses are into squeezing every penny out of consumers wherever they can, and not offer even respectable savings account rates...so why would they launch cards and lose money? I don't think having a loss-leader is the strategy their going for...

josephstern

Maybe the plan is to offer a card with great benefits. Get you and me and the group here to get it. Tell our friends, who are less savvy. OK to lose a little money initially.

Then, next year, cut the benefits a little. Lose less money. Let the savvy crowd cancel the card and move on.

Next year: cut the benefits some more. Hold onto the inertial crowd, still collecting that fat annual fee. Start turning a profit.

Long game (not that banks are typically known for it).

Now I'm thinking I'm in the inertial crowd on my Amex Plat.

gatzdon

You can also park the points there to sit on them until you get a premium card. Once you get the premium card back, you can then move the points to the premium card for the better redemption options.

Dieuwer

Regarding CSP viz. CSR, you could look at it in a different way: "Redemption Speed" viz. "Earnings Speed".
If you earning at 2x UR is less than the redemption speed (i.e. You are redeeming faster than you can earn UR) you should get the CSR. If not, you could stick with the CSP.

JeffMIA

EXACTLY!!!^^^