Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Mar 10, 2019, 11:00 pm
#1021
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 422
I want to product change from my existing Sapphire to a Sapphire Reserve. I called Chase and they told me I can only upgrade to the Sapphire Preferred but not the Reserve. Has anyone ever come across this issue?
I also have a Freedom and a Freedom Unlimited card. Should I try to see if I can convert one of the Freedom cards to a Sapphire Reserve? Would I need to change the Sapphire to another Freedom first, since you cannot have any other Sapphire cards within the Sapphire family?
I also have a Freedom and a Freedom Unlimited card. Should I try to see if I can convert one of the Freedom cards to a Sapphire Reserve? Would I need to change the Sapphire to another Freedom first, since you cannot have any other Sapphire cards within the Sapphire family?
If they won't allow CS to CSR then convert existing CF/CFU to CSR -- you can convert CS to CF/CFU whenever
Mar 11, 2019, 2:17 am
#1022
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1
To avoid paying the annual fee, I recently downgraded CSP to CFU. If I were to product change it back to CSP, would the annual fee be waived?
Mar 11, 2019, 5:29 am
#1023
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,650
Mar 11, 2019, 8:55 am
#1024
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,192
Mar 11, 2019, 5:06 pm
#1025
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: DTW
Programs: Dirt Status w/ All
Posts: 5,040
I'm mainly avoiding a couple annual fees on cards I rarely use while making sure I don't lose any points, or annoy Chase. I'm back to 5/24 with the Ink Preferred application, but will be back down to 4/24 later this summer. As I've been holding the CSP, I would be ineligible for the CSR so product changing to the Freedom opens up a CSR ability in the near future.
Would holding the current Ink Cash make me ineligible for a future Ink Cash $500 signup bonus? The Ink Cash I have now isn't really the same product as the current one you can apply for - it offers 3X on restaurants and gas instead of the 5X on office supply. Not sure if that would matter. I rarely spend on office supply and if I did I would likely go the route of Kroger gift cards that net me around 20% between grocery store bonus and free gas. Freeing up the credit line would not hurt for future applications as I'm sure I'm near the ceiling of Chase's maximum exposure.
Would holding the current Ink Cash make me ineligible for a future Ink Cash $500 signup bonus? The Ink Cash I have now isn't really the same product as the current one you can apply for - it offers 3X on restaurants and gas instead of the 5X on office supply. Not sure if that would matter. I rarely spend on office supply and if I did I would likely go the route of Kroger gift cards that net me around 20% between grocery store bonus and free gas. Freeing up the credit line would not hurt for future applications as I'm sure I'm near the ceiling of Chase's maximum exposure.
Mar 11, 2019, 5:48 pm
#1026
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,192
I'm mainly avoiding a couple annual fees on cards I rarely use while making sure I don't lose any points, or annoy Chase. I'm back to 5/24 with the Ink Preferred application, but will be back down to 4/24 later this summer. As I've been holding the CSP, I would be ineligible for the CSR so product changing to the Freedom opens up a CSR ability in the near future.
Would holding the current Ink Cash make me ineligible for a future Ink Cash $500 signup bonus? The Ink Cash I have now isn't really the same product as the current one you can apply for - it offers 3X on restaurants and gas instead of the 5X on office supply. Not sure if that would matter. I rarely spend on office supply and if I did I would likely go the route of Kroger gift cards that net me around 20% between grocery store bonus and free gas. Freeing up the credit line would not hurt for future applications as I'm sure I'm near the ceiling of Chase's maximum exposure.
Would holding the current Ink Cash make me ineligible for a future Ink Cash $500 signup bonus? The Ink Cash I have now isn't really the same product as the current one you can apply for - it offers 3X on restaurants and gas instead of the 5X on office supply. Not sure if that would matter. I rarely spend on office supply and if I did I would likely go the route of Kroger gift cards that net me around 20% between grocery store bonus and free gas. Freeing up the credit line would not hurt for future applications as I'm sure I'm near the ceiling of Chase's maximum exposure.
Mar 11, 2019, 9:10 pm
#1027
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: UA 1K - 2.1MM, HH LT Diamond, IHG Diamond, Bonvoy LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 766
Would holding the current Ink Cash make me ineligible for a future Ink Cash $500 signup bonus? The Ink Cash I have now isn't really the same product as the current one you can apply for - it offers 3X on restaurants and gas instead of the 5X on office supply. Not sure if that would matter.
Mar 11, 2019, 10:13 pm
#1028
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 52
Is it true that you can’t have both a Sapphire and a Sapphire Reserve at the same time? I have read that you cannot have more than one card in the Sapphire family.
Mar 12, 2019, 12:00 am
#1029
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
CSR to Freedom Double Dip $300 Credit
I am approaching my first renewal date for my CSR and would like to downgrade to a Freedom card. I would also like to use my new $300 travel credit before I downgrade and get the annual fee refunded. If I use the credit and then downgrade will Chase claw back the credits I used?
I am getting an AMEX Platinum and would like my wife to have the CSR. I would like to transfer all points I currently have to a Freedom or Freedom Unlimited and have my wife apply for the CSR. Can I then pool my points with hers and have her upgrade the points to UR points and extract them for maximum utilization?
I am getting an AMEX Platinum and would like my wife to have the CSR. I would like to transfer all points I currently have to a Freedom or Freedom Unlimited and have my wife apply for the CSR. Can I then pool my points with hers and have her upgrade the points to UR points and extract them for maximum utilization?
Mar 12, 2019, 6:36 am
#1030
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
I am approaching my first renewal date for my CSR and would like to downgrade to a Freedom card. I would also like to use my new $300 travel credit before I downgrade and get the annual fee refunded. If I use the credit and then downgrade will Chase claw back the credits I used?
I am getting an AMEX Platinum and would like my wife to have the CSR. I would like to transfer all points I currently have to a Freedom or Freedom Unlimited and have my wife apply for the CSR. Can I then pool my points with hers and have her upgrade the points to UR points and extract them for maximum utilization?
Mar 14, 2019, 9:12 pm
#1031
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1
Sadly, just now found out about the 48 months bonus change for the Sapphire family.
Sucks since I'm finally past 2 yrs on my CSR and was looking foward to re-applying and using a nice chunk of saved-up UR points.
Anyway, to find a solution, I'm just thinking out loud and hope for some feedback:
After my first year (to avoid the upcoming AF) I downgraded my CSR to a Freedom. Had that Freedom for roughly over a year now.
1.) Can I upgrade the Freedom back to a CSR? If so, I'm assuming I got to pay the AF but also would receive the $300 travel credit?
2.) Assuming 1. is a 'yes', can I keep the CSR for 12 months and end up collecting 2 travel credits, before re-downgrading or cancelling the CSR (assuming I do the 2nd travel credit redemption and downgrade all within 30 days of the second AF posting)?
3.) Assuming 1. is a 'yes', is it also maybe possible to get the CSR, use up my UR points, then re-downgrade the CSR (to Freedom) a few months later and get a partial refund on my AF?
Obv. 2. and 3. is playing a bit with ‘the system’. Any general red flags (e.g. regarding abusive behavior) I should be aware of or maybe even any prior datapoints? Would 2. or 3. be less 'frowned upon' by Chase?
Any feedback greatly appreciated...
Sucks since I'm finally past 2 yrs on my CSR and was looking foward to re-applying and using a nice chunk of saved-up UR points.
Anyway, to find a solution, I'm just thinking out loud and hope for some feedback:
After my first year (to avoid the upcoming AF) I downgraded my CSR to a Freedom. Had that Freedom for roughly over a year now.
1.) Can I upgrade the Freedom back to a CSR? If so, I'm assuming I got to pay the AF but also would receive the $300 travel credit?
2.) Assuming 1. is a 'yes', can I keep the CSR for 12 months and end up collecting 2 travel credits, before re-downgrading or cancelling the CSR (assuming I do the 2nd travel credit redemption and downgrade all within 30 days of the second AF posting)?
3.) Assuming 1. is a 'yes', is it also maybe possible to get the CSR, use up my UR points, then re-downgrade the CSR (to Freedom) a few months later and get a partial refund on my AF?
Obv. 2. and 3. is playing a bit with ‘the system’. Any general red flags (e.g. regarding abusive behavior) I should be aware of or maybe even any prior datapoints? Would 2. or 3. be less 'frowned upon' by Chase?
Any feedback greatly appreciated...
Mar 17, 2019, 12:33 pm
#1032
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 52
I want to product change from my existing Sapphire to a Sapphire Reserve. I called Chase and they told me I can only upgrade to the Sapphire Preferred but not the Reserve. Has anyone ever come across this issue?
I also have a Freedom and a Freedom Unlimited card. Should I try to see if I can convert one of the Freedom cards to a Sapphire Reserve? Would I need to change the Sapphire to another Freedom first, since you cannot have any other Sapphire cards within the Sapphire family?
I also have a Freedom and a Freedom Unlimited card. Should I try to see if I can convert one of the Freedom cards to a Sapphire Reserve? Would I need to change the Sapphire to another Freedom first, since you cannot have any other Sapphire cards within the Sapphire family?
Mar 17, 2019, 12:57 pm
#1033
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,329
Did the quick 5 minute call include any questions about qualification for the card such as credit limit or income or verification of any personal information?
Mar 18, 2019, 10:07 pm
#1034
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 52
No, they did not ask for income verification, etc. Product change just involves the Chase rep checking their computer system to see if your card is flagged as "qualifying for product change." However, Visa Infinite cards need a minimum of $10k credit line. My CFU has more than $10k credit limit, so there were no issues. You may need to move some credit around between cards if your CFU/CF does not have at least $10k.
Mar 21, 2019, 6:51 am
#1035
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 166
Apply again in 24 months?
Would the product downgrade from CSP allow TEV9999 to apply for CSR or CSP in 24 months from his original opening or points granted date? I’m thinking of doing this for the CSP to the CF which I opened in Feb 2018 and just applying for the CSR or CSP in Feb/ Mar 2020 and get the points. Am I missing something?
