Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Dec 16, 2018, 5:57 pm
#916
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: Former UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 576
I am considering downgrading my CSR to a freedom this spring. I have an Ink Preferred (3x travel) and the Aspire (Priority Pass). Sound reasonable?
If I downgrade my CSR to a Freedom, can I later upgrade an old Freedom Unlimited to CSR. I would like the option to upgrade in order to use the portal.
PS International restaurant spend would be earning 2.25%. I would not be using the CSR for domestic restaurant spend.
If I downgrade my CSR to a Freedom, can I later upgrade an old Freedom Unlimited to CSR. I would like the option to upgrade in order to use the portal.
PS International restaurant spend would be earning 2.25%. I would not be using the CSR for domestic restaurant spend.
Dec 16, 2018, 7:38 pm
#917
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 87
Best option after 1 year for a credit card with annual fee
Hi,
Have a question regarding the best option after 1 year for a card opened for new card bonus which has an annual fee.
Close after 1 year/Downgrade to a no fee card/Any other options?
In case there is no spend after initial spend is done.
Have a question regarding the best option after 1 year for a card opened for new card bonus which has an annual fee.
Close after 1 year/Downgrade to a no fee card/Any other options?
In case there is no spend after initial spend is done.
Dec 16, 2018, 8:39 pm
#918
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 29,505
Call the card issuer and ask for a retention offer.
And this strategy applies regardless of whether one engages in manufactured-spend activity.
And this strategy applies regardless of whether one engages in manufactured-spend activity.
Dec 16, 2018, 10:10 pm
#919
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 87
Underatand that calling the card issuer is the first step. My question was in case there is no retention offer. What is better? Closing card or changing it to a no-fee card?
Dec 17, 2018, 6:33 am
#920
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
With which card?
Dec 17, 2018, 9:27 am
#921
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PDX
Programs: Don't think it matters...
Posts: 5,240
Changing to no fee card is possible would be a better option IF you don't want to alter the above, but YMMV.
Dec 17, 2018, 9:31 am
#922
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Intermountain West
Programs: Too many to list
Posts: 12,065
As always, the answer to your question is "it depends". With some cards you can cancel and then reapply again later & get another bonus. But with some cards you cannot do that w/o waiting 1>4 yrs. It's better for your FICO score to downgrade to a no fee card & then keep it forever.
Dec 17, 2018, 4:02 pm
#923
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SJC/SFO
Programs: WN A+ CP, UA 1MM/*A Gold, Mar LT Tit, IHG Plat, HH Dia
Posts: 6,284
The answer is it depends. It depends on the card itself and the role that card plays in your portfolio strategy.
The card itself matters because certain cards, like Amex Hilton Honors, offer a bonus to upgrade again after a year. I've done that once with a legacy Surpass card and will try it again later this year rather than canceling it.
It also matters if the card has any benefits, including the rewards rates on ordinary spend, that you will use. For example, I keep Chase IHG at least an extra year because the $49 AF is well compensated by the free night cert. I've also kept my Chase Southwest card a second year because I'm a Southwest FF and like the points earning on bonus-category spend.
Finally, it matters what role the card plays in your portfolio. To help keep your credit score-- and thus your ability to keep playing the churning game-- high you need "anchor" cards with long history in your portfolio. If you don't have at least one anchor card open for several years already, consider PCing to a no-AF card instead of closing your account.
The card itself matters because certain cards, like Amex Hilton Honors, offer a bonus to upgrade again after a year. I've done that once with a legacy Surpass card and will try it again later this year rather than canceling it.
It also matters if the card has any benefits, including the rewards rates on ordinary spend, that you will use. For example, I keep Chase IHG at least an extra year because the $49 AF is well compensated by the free night cert. I've also kept my Chase Southwest card a second year because I'm a Southwest FF and like the points earning on bonus-category spend.
Finally, it matters what role the card plays in your portfolio. To help keep your credit score-- and thus your ability to keep playing the churning game-- high you need "anchor" cards with long history in your portfolio. If you don't have at least one anchor card open for several years already, consider PCing to a no-AF card instead of closing your account.
Dec 17, 2018, 7:23 pm
#924
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 87
The answer is it depends. It depends on the card itself and the role that card plays in your portfolio strategy.
The card itself matters because certain cards, like Amex Hilton Honors, offer a bonus to upgrade again after a year. I've done that once with a legacy Surpass card and will try it again later this year rather than canceling it.
It also matters if the card has any benefits, including the rewards rates on ordinary spend, that you will use. For example, I keep Chase IHG at least an extra year because the $49 AF is well compensated by the free night cert. I've also kept my Chase Southwest card a second year because I'm a Southwest FF and like the points earning on bonus-category spend.
Finally, it matters what role the card plays in your portfolio. To help keep your credit score-- and thus your ability to keep playing the churning game-- high you need "anchor" cards with long history in your portfolio. If you don't have at least one anchor card open for several years already, consider PCing to a no-AF card instead of closing your account.
The card itself matters because certain cards, like Amex Hilton Honors, offer a bonus to upgrade again after a year. I've done that once with a legacy Surpass card and will try it again later this year rather than canceling it.
It also matters if the card has any benefits, including the rewards rates on ordinary spend, that you will use. For example, I keep Chase IHG at least an extra year because the $49 AF is well compensated by the free night cert. I've also kept my Chase Southwest card a second year because I'm a Southwest FF and like the points earning on bonus-category spend.
Finally, it matters what role the card plays in your portfolio. To help keep your credit score-- and thus your ability to keep playing the churning game-- high you need "anchor" cards with long history in your portfolio. If you don't have at least one anchor card open for several years already, consider PCing to a no-AF card instead of closing your account.
Dec 17, 2018, 10:13 pm
#925
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 75
Personally i would downgrade if it was an option. It also depends on how many credit cards you are comfortable with having.
Dec 18, 2018, 9:37 am
#926
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PDX
Programs: Don't think it matters...
Posts: 5,240
Dec 19, 2018, 3:41 pm
#927
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: Ink/Sapphire/Freedom/SPG
Posts: 338
I am in a peculiar situation.
Signed up for plastiq 1.75% fee during promotion Ink Preferred coded as 3x , now i do not see point of paying annual fee , is it possible to keep the same credit card number with downgrade?
Signed up for plastiq 1.75% fee during promotion Ink Preferred coded as 3x , now i do not see point of paying annual fee , is it possible to keep the same credit card number with downgrade?
Dec 19, 2018, 3:52 pm
#928
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunny AZ
Programs: HH Diamond, Sixt Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott/SPG Gold .....
Posts: 3,206
Dec 21, 2018, 8:43 pm
#929
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,738
[removed snark] Chase now looks into people's history to decide whether a downgrade is allowed.
Read on non English site that someone is told no downgrade is allowed (prompted by the system?) before 12 months are up on the existing card...
[removed snark] Looks to me even the downgrade route to get partial refund of AF in 1st year now is being looked at too...
Read on non English site that someone is told no downgrade is allowed (prompted by the system?) before 12 months are up on the existing card...
[removed snark] Looks to me even the downgrade route to get partial refund of AF in 1st year now is being looked at too...
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Dec 22, 2018 at 8:47 am Reason: Removed snark and overly personal commentary
Dec 21, 2018, 9:05 pm
#930
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,929
Potential 250k UR points per year ea card.
