Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Nov 2, 2018, 11:58 am
#901
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
Nov 2, 2018, 3:24 pm
#902
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 182
Hello mia,
Thank you for your response. I think I combined them all under the Sapphire Preferred. But I am not too sure about it. Is there anyway to find it out?
When I log on to Chase I see all of my credit cards, personal and business, listed and I can see the total UR points as one figure.
Thank you.
Michaelmorio
Thank you for your response. I think I combined them all under the Sapphire Preferred. But I am not too sure about it. Is there anyway to find it out?
When I log on to Chase I see all of my credit cards, personal and business, listed and I can see the total UR points as one figure.
Thank you.
Michaelmorio
Nov 2, 2018, 4:08 pm
#903
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
Click on that total, and it should take you to a screen that lists each of your UR balances. Each card will be listed, even if the balance is zero. If the points are in the Sapphire Preferred UR account you MUST move them before you close that card.
Nov 3, 2018, 4:51 pm
#904
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 182
Hello Mia,
Thank you again. I have just clicked the total figure shown and it took me to a screen which breaks down the total into 3 respective figures for each Sapphire Preferred, Ink Plus and Ink Preferred.
What I am thinking is to change Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Unlimited. Is it called "product change" or "down grade"? I am not sure which one. Am I correct in thinking I don't lose any points on the Sapphire Preferred even I change it into a Freedom Unlimited?
Also, am I correct in thinking all the UR points I have will value 1.25 cents a UR point even after the product change/downgrade because I still have Ink Preferred?
Thank you.
Michaelmorio
Thank you again. I have just clicked the total figure shown and it took me to a screen which breaks down the total into 3 respective figures for each Sapphire Preferred, Ink Plus and Ink Preferred.
What I am thinking is to change Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Unlimited. Is it called "product change" or "down grade"? I am not sure which one. Am I correct in thinking I don't lose any points on the Sapphire Preferred even I change it into a Freedom Unlimited?
Also, am I correct in thinking all the UR points I have will value 1.25 cents a UR point even after the product change/downgrade because I still have Ink Preferred?
Thank you.
Michaelmorio
Nov 3, 2018, 5:02 pm
#905
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
ONLY if you move the points to the INK Preferred account. If you redeem from a Freedom Unlimited account you will receive the lower value.
Nov 7, 2018, 3:47 pm
#906
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 182
Hello Mia,
Thank you again for your kind response.
Then if my intension with the UR points I have is to transfer to a frequent flyer account of one of the partner airlines, any UR points under any UR-points earning credit cards have the same value. Am I right about my understanding?
Thank you.
Michaelmorio
Thank you again for your kind response.
Then if my intension with the UR points I have is to transfer to a frequent flyer account of one of the partner airlines, any UR points under any UR-points earning credit cards have the same value. Am I right about my understanding?
Thank you.
Michaelmorio
Nov 7, 2018, 4:01 pm
#907
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
The Transfer ratio is always 1000:1000, but free cards are not eligible to Transfer. You must first Combine points from a free card with an eligible card (e.g. Sapphire Preferred, Sapphire Reserve, INK Plus, INK Preferred).
Nov 7, 2018, 4:07 pm
#908
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 182
Hello Mia,
Wow, another lighting fast response!!! You must be living in a cyber space!
Thank you again and again for your help!
Best regards,
Michaelmorio
Wow, another lighting fast response!!! You must be living in a cyber space!
Thank you again and again for your help!
Best regards,
Michaelmorio
Nov 15, 2018, 7:56 pm
#909
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 69
CSP upgrade to CSR Question...need advice
Have had CSP for few months now. Original plan was to upgrade after 24 months and collect UR points on CSR.
That plan is now obviously gone. Thoughts about simply bypassing a bonus and simply upgrading once I hit the one year mark? Is that crazy?
If I keep as is, was also thinking about applying for another card outside the Chase family to diversify rewards, perhaps Prestige in January or Amex Gold.
Currently have around 400K Marriot points (work pays direct for hotel stays and am platinum elite, so don't feel need for hotel co-branded card unless I maybe get a Hyatt to punch up earning capabilities) though I much prefer flexible rewards. I'm not a fan of having lot of credit cards.
Would love anyone's thoughts on this.
Thanks.
That plan is now obviously gone. Thoughts about simply bypassing a bonus and simply upgrading once I hit the one year mark? Is that crazy?
If I keep as is, was also thinking about applying for another card outside the Chase family to diversify rewards, perhaps Prestige in January or Amex Gold.
Currently have around 400K Marriot points (work pays direct for hotel stays and am platinum elite, so don't feel need for hotel co-branded card unless I maybe get a Hyatt to punch up earning capabilities) though I much prefer flexible rewards. I'm not a fan of having lot of credit cards.
Would love anyone's thoughts on this.
Thanks.
Nov 15, 2018, 8:20 pm
#910
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SFO/YYZ
Programs: AC 25K, AS MVP Gold, BA Bronze, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,459
I'll be upgrading my CSP to a CSR next month which is my one year mark, even though I don't need the Priority Pass. If you value the UR points for each card equally (so not even factoring the 1.25c vs 1.5c redemption) and take the $300 travel credit at face value, you need roughly the same amount of spend on dining/travel on each card to offset the net annual fees of $95 and $150 (5% more spend for CSR). After that point the CSR earns 50% faster so I see no reason not to upgrade now that the bonus cycle period is four years, and I think the same would apply to your case.
Nov 16, 2018, 2:06 am
#911
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 42
Yeah, waiting the four year period is going to be a lot of lost opportunity cost. My personal opinion: I think you're best off upgrading to the CSR now and then adding the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited to your repertoire to get 1.5 points on everything, 3 points on all travel and dining, and 5 points on quarterly categories all for a $150 annual fee. You mentioned that you wouldn't use the 1.5cent redemption so that's not a factor. You get Global Entry/TSA Pre-check and Priority Pass which you seemed to indicate that those aren't worth much to you but for being $55 more than the CSP per year, I think the 50% boost in travel/dining points combined with PP and Global Entry, this card is easily a winner.
If those truly mean nothing to you, spending $5,500 per year in combined travel/dining is the break even point when compared to the CSP. There are lots of benefits that chip away at the $55 including the "Discover Deals" page (what does Chase call this again??). So for instance shopping at Best Buy through the Chase website gets a bonus point so now Best Buy is worth 2x points. There are hundreds of stores there to use and some offer good multipliers. (Is this offered for the CSP? I'm assuming not but could be wrong.)
If those truly mean nothing to you, spending $5,500 per year in combined travel/dining is the break even point when compared to the CSP. There are lots of benefits that chip away at the $55 including the "Discover Deals" page (what does Chase call this again??). So for instance shopping at Best Buy through the Chase website gets a bonus point so now Best Buy is worth 2x points. There are hundreds of stores there to use and some offer good multipliers. (Is this offered for the CSP? I'm assuming not but could be wrong.)
Nov 24, 2018, 4:29 pm
#912
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 12
the recent AMEX gold has forced me to re-evaluate my entire credit card lineup....
based on my spending patterns, the AMEX gold is actually better than the AMEX BCP for groceries, so on that category alone i will be getting the card. however, its 4x for dining is also better than the CSR's 3x, and since the annual fee is already accounted for, it's basically "free".
that leaves travel, but i don't spend enough on this category alone to pay either the $95 or $150 fee. i do the yearly family vacation, but that's about it. so if travel is not good enough, that leaves the non-bonus everyday spend. i would never pay for a business class ticket, or stay at a super fancy hotel, so for me the value of UR points is on the lower end of the spectrum -- 1.5cpp, or basically 1.5x1.5=2.25% cashback.
at that rate, there are multiple options that beat it. alliant has a 2.5% cashback card (3% first year), BoA credit cards get you 2.625% if you have 100k with them.
soooo, am i missing anything that makes the sapphire worth keeping? i, unfortunately, have a large stash of UR points lying around....but i'm not sure paying $95 a year to be able to transfer them is worth it....
based on my spending patterns, the AMEX gold is actually better than the AMEX BCP for groceries, so on that category alone i will be getting the card. however, its 4x for dining is also better than the CSR's 3x, and since the annual fee is already accounted for, it's basically "free".
that leaves travel, but i don't spend enough on this category alone to pay either the $95 or $150 fee. i do the yearly family vacation, but that's about it. so if travel is not good enough, that leaves the non-bonus everyday spend. i would never pay for a business class ticket, or stay at a super fancy hotel, so for me the value of UR points is on the lower end of the spectrum -- 1.5cpp, or basically 1.5x1.5=2.25% cashback.
at that rate, there are multiple options that beat it. alliant has a 2.5% cashback card (3% first year), BoA credit cards get you 2.625% if you have 100k with them.
soooo, am i missing anything that makes the sapphire worth keeping? i, unfortunately, have a large stash of UR points lying around....but i'm not sure paying $95 a year to be able to transfer them is worth it....
Nov 25, 2018, 3:01 am
#913
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
....travel, but i don't spend enough on this category alone to pay either the $95 or $150 fee. i do the yearly family vacation, but that's about it. so if travel is not good enough, that leaves the non-bonus everyday spend. i would never pay for a business class ticket, or stay at a super fancy hotel, so for me the value of UR points is on the lower end of the spectrum -- 1.5cpp, or basically 1.5x1.5=2.25% cashback.....
Dec 16, 2018, 6:07 am
#914
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: C1, C1.5 C2
Programs: aa ua dl jb starwood marriott hyatt
Posts: 442
My Chase Ink Preferred is up for renewal but can't justify the fee.
I just opened a Chase Sapphire Preferred. The Sapphire catagories are better for me than the Ink.
I called to close Chase Ink and was offered to downgrade to no Business Unlimited or Chase Cash and
am deciding to do it or better to wait and apply when I can get a bonus.
I am overseas a lot and both the no annual fee cards have Foreign Transaction fees of 3% so probably wouldn't use them.
Alternatively, if they downgrade me I won't have to apply for one of the no annual fee cards at a later date so no credit report pull.
Am leaning towards just closing, but maybe I'm missing something?
Any suggestions on what you'd do? Just close the Ink or get an annual no fee.
815 credit, 6 cards 1/2 hotel ones.
Thanks!
I just opened a Chase Sapphire Preferred. The Sapphire catagories are better for me than the Ink.
I called to close Chase Ink and was offered to downgrade to no Business Unlimited or Chase Cash and
am deciding to do it or better to wait and apply when I can get a bonus.
I am overseas a lot and both the no annual fee cards have Foreign Transaction fees of 3% so probably wouldn't use them.
Alternatively, if they downgrade me I won't have to apply for one of the no annual fee cards at a later date so no credit report pull.
Am leaning towards just closing, but maybe I'm missing something?
Any suggestions on what you'd do? Just close the Ink or get an annual no fee.
815 credit, 6 cards 1/2 hotel ones.
Thanks!
Last edited by anngi; Dec 16, 2018 at 6:33 pm
Dec 16, 2018, 12:29 pm
#915
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 422
My Chase Ink Preferred is up for renewal but can't justify the fee.
I just opened a Chase Sapphire Preferred. The Sapphire catagories are better for me than the Ink.
I called to close Chase Ink and was offered to downgrade to no Business Unlimited or Chase Cash and
am deciding to do it or better to wait and apply when I can get a bonus.
I am overseas a lot and both the no annual fee cards have Foreign Transaction fees of 3% so probably wouldn't use them.
Alternatively, if they downgrade me I won't have to apply for one of the no annual fee cards at a later date so no credit report pull.
If I downgrade do they pull credit reports again?
Am leaning towards just closing, but maybe I'm missing something?
Any suggestions on what you'd do? Just close the Ink or get an annual no fee.
815 credit, 6 cards 1/2 hotel ones.
Also from reading said I should transfer UR from Ink to Sapphire before I close, Correct?
Thanks!
I just opened a Chase Sapphire Preferred. The Sapphire catagories are better for me than the Ink.
I called to close Chase Ink and was offered to downgrade to no Business Unlimited or Chase Cash and
am deciding to do it or better to wait and apply when I can get a bonus.
I am overseas a lot and both the no annual fee cards have Foreign Transaction fees of 3% so probably wouldn't use them.
Alternatively, if they downgrade me I won't have to apply for one of the no annual fee cards at a later date so no credit report pull.
If I downgrade do they pull credit reports again?
Am leaning towards just closing, but maybe I'm missing something?
Any suggestions on what you'd do? Just close the Ink or get an annual no fee.
815 credit, 6 cards 1/2 hotel ones.
Also from reading said I should transfer UR from Ink to Sapphire before I close, Correct?
Thanks!
If you don't plan on getting CIC/CIU then downgrade the CIP to one of those -- no annual fee, no credit check to downgrade and UR pts will remain on converted card or you can move them to CSP