Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Aug 10, 2018, 7:56 am
#826
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 4
And thank you for the reply. You're right about the prohibition on holding two Sapphire products simultaneously .I pressed the rep on this, but he was adamant that there was no restriction. It sounds like I just got a rep who had some bad information.
Thanks again. If I wait until the next billing cycle, it will be after the year mark--does that mean I'll be charged the CSP AF, and then subsequently charged the CSR AF after the upgrade?
Thanks again. If I wait until the next billing cycle, it will be after the year mark--does that mean I'll be charged the CSP AF, and then subsequently charged the CSR AF after the upgrade?
Last edited by philemer; Aug 10, 2018 at 11:49 pm
Aug 10, 2018, 8:12 am
#827
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,953
Perhaps, Chase bills all fees on the first on the month, but then the system would credit you for the unearned fee.
Aug 13, 2018, 2:39 am
#829
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 28
Hi, wondering if anyone sees any issues or has tips for my below plan.
I'll hit my 2 year CSR anniversary at the end of Aug. Bonus was received mid-Oct. I am planning on waiting til mid-Dec to get the $300 credit again and PC to another CF a week later, so I should receive a pro-rated refund of the AF. Since the $300 credit isn't based on calendar year anymore, I'll just wait til Jan to re-apply and double-dip CSR/CSP. For the double-dip, I'm expecting either auto-approval or possibly having to call in for the CSR and assuming I get approved, I'll apply for the CSP immediately after, and will for sure have to call in for the CSP.
Does all that check or am I missing anything?
Thanks!
I'll hit my 2 year CSR anniversary at the end of Aug. Bonus was received mid-Oct. I am planning on waiting til mid-Dec to get the $300 credit again and PC to another CF a week later, so I should receive a pro-rated refund of the AF. Since the $300 credit isn't based on calendar year anymore, I'll just wait til Jan to re-apply and double-dip CSR/CSP. For the double-dip, I'm expecting either auto-approval or possibly having to call in for the CSR and assuming I get approved, I'll apply for the CSP immediately after, and will for sure have to call in for the CSP.
Does all that check or am I missing anything?
Thanks!
Aug 13, 2018, 7:08 am
#830
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Hi, wondering if anyone sees any issues or has tips for my below plan.
I'll hit my 2 year CSR anniversary at the end of Aug. Bonus was received mid-Oct. I am planning on waiting til mid-Dec to get the $300 credit again and PC to another CF a week later, so I should receive a pro-rated refund of the AF. Since the $300 credit isn't based on calendar year anymore, I'll just wait til Jan to re-apply and double-dip CSR/CSP. For the double-dip, I'm expecting either auto-approval or possibly having to call in for the CSR and assuming I get approved, I'll apply for the CSP immediately after, and will for sure have to call in for the CSP.
Does all that check or am I missing anything?
Thanks!
I'll hit my 2 year CSR anniversary at the end of Aug. Bonus was received mid-Oct. I am planning on waiting til mid-Dec to get the $300 credit again and PC to another CF a week later, so I should receive a pro-rated refund of the AF. Since the $300 credit isn't based on calendar year anymore, I'll just wait til Jan to re-apply and double-dip CSR/CSP. For the double-dip, I'm expecting either auto-approval or possibly having to call in for the CSR and assuming I get approved, I'll apply for the CSP immediately after, and will for sure have to call in for the CSP.
Does all that check or am I missing anything?
Thanks!
- When you apply for the double-dip, you must be 4/24 or lower
- I recommend ensuring your overall CURRENT credit limits (with Chase only) PLUS an expected $15,000 for the CSR/CSP are < 50% of your annual income. This will give you the best shot at auto-approvals.
- You must use a different browser for the 2nd application (or at the very least an incognito window)
- It's possible to be auto-approved for both
- I've seen recent data points that a couple days after double-dip approvals, Chase comes back and lowers credit limits on both cards. Don't be alarmed, just note that it could happen. This is better then Chase reneging on one of the 2 acceptances for sure.
Aug 13, 2018, 7:56 pm
#831
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 28
Looks thorough. Your dates look good. A few additional comments about double-dipping:
- When you apply for the double-dip, you must be 4/24 or lower
- I recommend ensuring your overall CURRENT credit limits (with Chase only) PLUS an expected $15,000 for the CSR/CSP are < 50% of your annual income. This will give you the best shot at auto-approvals.
- You must use a different browser for the 2nd application (or at the very least an incognito window)
- It's possible to be auto-approved for both
- I've seen recent data points that a couple days after double-dip approvals, Chase comes back and lowers credit limits on both cards. Don't be alarmed, just note that it could happen. This is better then Chase reneging on one of the 2 acceptances for sure.
Last question, is it possible to use my own referral for the CSR?
Aug 14, 2018, 6:18 am
#832
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Absolutely! Sorry, I should have caught that and mentioned it. Generate the referral link prior to downgrading and use it when you apply. You'll get the points on your downgraded card and can move them later.
Aug 14, 2018, 8:06 am
#833
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
Pkim621 will generate a referral link (how?) while logged in to his/her CSR account. This referral link, when used to open a new CSR account, gives a point bonus to the CSR account number that created the link. After downgrading the current CSR to CF, Pkim621 uses the referral link to apply for a new CSR. (How does one use the referral link?) After approval, the point bonus is credited to the account number that used to be CSR but is now CF. Of course, the points can then be transferred to the new CSR.
Did I understand that correctly?
Aug 14, 2018, 10:00 am
#834
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
This is new to me. Please tell me if I understood.
Pkim621 will generate a referral link (how?) while logged in to his/her CSR account. This referral link, when used to open a new CSR account, gives a point bonus to the CSR account number that created the link. After downgrading the current CSR to CF, Pkim621 uses the referral link to apply for a new CSR. (How does one use the referral link?) After approval, the point bonus is credited to the account number that used to be CSR but is now CF. Of course, the points can then be transferred to the new CSR.
Did I understand that correctly?
Pkim621 will generate a referral link (how?) while logged in to his/her CSR account. This referral link, when used to open a new CSR account, gives a point bonus to the CSR account number that created the link. After downgrading the current CSR to CF, Pkim621 uses the referral link to apply for a new CSR. (How does one use the referral link?) After approval, the point bonus is credited to the account number that used to be CSR but is now CF. Of course, the points can then be transferred to the new CSR.
Did I understand that correctly?
Aug 14, 2018, 12:37 pm
#835
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: USA
Programs: AA Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 310
You pretty much have it. You can generate a CSR referral link at this site. Save the link on your web browser or a text file to use later on after you've downgraded (this doesn't work if you've cancelled the CSR--you must downgrade). To use it, you just click it like any web link and it takes you to the application page.
Aug 20, 2018, 10:06 am
#836
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,727
I have a Ink Preferred with AF billed on 7/1, can I still call in to downgrade it to an Ink cash and get a refund? Will it be full or prorated? I already have an Ink Cash card, does that matter? Seems like I'm past 30 days to cancel for full refund.
Nevermind...called and canceled since I saw on the statement, 30 days from statement date to cancel.
Nevermind...called and canceled since I saw on the statement, 30 days from statement date to cancel.
Last edited by terpfan101; Aug 20, 2018 at 10:16 am
Aug 20, 2018, 10:09 am
#837
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
Sep 1, 2018, 12:46 pm
#839
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 609
I have had CSR for 2 years and would like to downgrade to a no fee card. I am wondering which card should I downgrade to (no fee Sapphire, Freedom or Freedom Unlimited), in order to be best positioned for future product change type upgrade back to CSR.
My goal is to take a break from paying annual fee, and not having to do a credit pull when upgrade back.
Thanks.
My goal is to take a break from paying annual fee, and not having to do a credit pull when upgrade back.
Thanks.
Sep 1, 2018, 1:48 pm
#840
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold, Club Carlson Gold, National EE, *G
Posts: 470
I have had CSR for 2 years and would like to downgrade to a no fee card. I am wondering which card should I downgrade to (no fee Sapphire, Freedom or Freedom Unlimited), in order to be best positioned for future product change type upgrade back to CSR.
My goal is to take a break from paying annual fee, and not having to do a credit pull when upgrade back.
Thanks.
My goal is to take a break from paying annual fee, and not having to do a credit pull when upgrade back.
Thanks.