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Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)

Old Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.


Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.

What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.

Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.

Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.

An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.

Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.

Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present

Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.

Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.

Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.

I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.

Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family

The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.

The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.

Personal Cards
  • Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
  • Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
  • Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
  • Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
  • Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.


Business Cards
  • Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
  • Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
  • Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants

If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.

Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:

Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.

What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.

However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.

The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.

I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.

Product Changes for United Airlines Cards

There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
  • United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
  • United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
  • United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
  • Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.

Southwest Airlines Cards

The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.

Personal cards
  • Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
  • Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
The Business cards also have a Plus and Premiere version.
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Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)

Old May 1, 2018, 6:37 am
  #751  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Western NY
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Diplomatico
1. Nothing.
2. No.
3. Probably.
4. 5/24 status.
Thanks for the response. About how long would you suggest waiting between PCing CSR to CFU / CF and re-applying for CSR?
kda0000 is offline  
Old May 13, 2018, 5:21 pm
  #752  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 43
Keep Chase Sapphire (regular)?

I have a Sapphire (regular) and a Sapphire Reserve. Even though the Sapphire (regular) has no annual fee, is there any reason I should be concerned about closing it (I would ask to move the credit line to the Reserve and move any UR points to the Reserve before doing so)? I'm planning to keep the Reserve for the foreseeable future.

Perhaps there's even a benefit of closing the Sapphire (regular) that I'm unaware of. I'm just trying to consolidate the number of cards I have. The Sapphire regular was opened in 2012 (which is on the earlier side of most of my cards though I've had a few since 2005 and 2008) so I'm wondering if I should be at all concerned about the hit to my credit score. I'm not planning to take out any loans anytime soon.

Thanks!
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Old May 13, 2018, 5:31 pm
  #753  
mia
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend; Moderator: American Express, Capital One, Citi, Chase, Credit Card Programs, Diners Club, Signatures
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,884
Do you already have Freedom and Freedom Unlimited?
mia is online now  
Old May 13, 2018, 5:47 pm
  #754  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 43
I have Freedom (opened Dec 2013) and Ink Cash (was a downgrade from Ink Bold). Not eligible for Ink Preferred because of 5/24.
Euph222 is offline  
Old May 13, 2018, 5:59 pm
  #755  
mia
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend; Moderator: American Express, Capital One, Citi, Chase, Credit Card Programs, Diners Club, Signatures
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,884
Originally Posted by Euph222
... 5/24.
I would convert the Sapphire to Freedom Unlimited, which earns 1.5 points per dollar on all spending.
mia is online now  
Old May 14, 2018, 6:18 am
  #756  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by Euph222
I have a Sapphire (regular) and a Sapphire Reserve. Even though the Sapphire (regular) has no annual fee, is there any reason I should be concerned about closing it (I would ask to move the credit line to the Reserve and move any UR points to the Reserve before doing so)? I'm planning to keep the Reserve for the foreseeable future.

Perhaps there's even a benefit of closing the Sapphire (regular) that I'm unaware of. I'm just trying to consolidate the number of cards I have. The Sapphire regular was opened in 2012 (which is on the earlier side of most of my cards though I've had a few since 2005 and 2008) so I'm wondering if I should be at all concerned about the hit to my credit score. I'm not planning to take out any loans anytime soon.

Thanks!
I second Mia's suggestion to product change your Sapphire to a Freedom Unlimited card. You'll keep your credit history and UR points and have a card that earns more UR points for your base spend. It's a no-brainer.
pallhedge is offline  
Old May 15, 2018, 1:06 pm
  #757  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 398
Just got the AMEX business platinum and considering downgrading my CSR to CSP ( at least for one year ).

I had upgraded my CSP to CSR back in August 2016, and my $450 account fee just hit a couple weeks ago for this year. Because my CSR was received so early on, i still have my $300 travel credit applied at the start of each year ( meaning it's already used ).

I get most of the same premium card benefits out of the AMEX business plat and will need to pay the $450 AF on as well. I really can't think of any reason to pay the CSR $450 fee also this year since i already got the $300 travel credit. Seems worthwhile next year, but downgrading to the CSP seems like the way to go this year.

It seems that the AMEX business plat and CSP would give me just about all the same benefits as keeping the CSR and plat, and at a solid difference ( $545 in AF vs. $900 ).

Am i missing something here?
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Old May 15, 2018, 6:44 pm
  #758  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,187
Originally Posted by maxp0wers
Just got the AMEX business platinum and considering downgrading my CSR to CSP ( at least for one year ).

I had upgraded my CSP to CSR back in August 2016, and my $450 account fee just hit a couple weeks ago for this year. Because my CSR was received so early on, i still have my $300 travel credit applied at the start of each year ( meaning it's already used ).

I get most of the same premium card benefits out of the AMEX business plat and will need to pay the $450 AF on as well. I really can't think of any reason to pay the CSR $450 fee also this year since i already got the $300 travel credit. Seems worthwhile next year, but downgrading to the CSP seems like the way to go this year.

It seems that the AMEX business plat and CSP would give me just about all the same benefits as keeping the CSR and plat, and at a solid difference ( $545 in AF vs. $900 ).

Am i missing something here?
Well, if you pay the CSR annual fee this year (now), you are still going to get another $300 travel credit during the cardmember year - you'll get the $300 credit again in January. That makes your CSR cardmember year annual cost a net $150.00 and not a net $450.00.

So the aggregate cardmember year annual fee comparison is $545 vs $600. For that extra $55 you'll get the additional UR points for travel and dining over the CSP, primary car rental insurance, and better trip delay benefits. If that's worth $55 to you, then I'd say keep the CSR. (None of that is included in the biz plat.)

Last edited by Diplomatico; May 15, 2018 at 7:03 pm
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Old May 16, 2018, 4:56 pm
  #759  
mia
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend; Moderator: American Express, Capital One, Citi, Chase, Credit Card Programs, Diners Club, Signatures
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,884
Originally Posted by Diplomatico
...over the CSP, primary car rental insurance, ...
I believe Sapphire Preferred also offers primary CDW.
mia is online now  
Old May 17, 2018, 3:48 pm
  #760  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 398
Originally Posted by Diplomatico
Well, if you pay the CSR annual fee this year (now), you are still going to get another $300 travel credit during the cardmember year - you'll get the $300 credit again in January. That makes your CSR cardmember year annual cost a net $150.00 and not a net $450.00.

So the aggregate cardmember year annual fee comparison is $545 vs $600. For that extra $55 you'll get the additional UR points for travel and dining over the CSP, primary car rental insurance, and better trip delay benefits. If that's worth $55 to you, then I'd say keep the CSR. (None of that is included in the biz plat.)
I understand what you are saying and agree that if i were to keep the CSR, then the actual year ( April to April ) net fee would be $150. However, i see things a little differently. If I cancel the CSR right now ( within 30 days of AF hitting ), i would be reimbursed $450 and then pay the CSP annual fee of $95. if i were to re-upgrade my CSP to CSR next April, then the AF for my card member year for the next 12 months would actually be $95 and not $450.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly why Chase changed the terms of the benefits so that the $300 credit now is given each year at renewal and not calendar year.

Primary rental car insurance is very important for me, and like Mia mentioned, it is also on the CSP. Travel insurance is another big thing for me ( not on the Amex plat which seems crazy to me ), but i can make due with the time difference between the CSR and the CSP if it was a trip that i felt i wanted the insurance for. I did have a 38 hour delay this winter with Norwegian Air and Chase travel insurance covered all my costs ( $495 out of the $500 limit ).

Both CSP and CSR have the little discussed road side assistance as well. Of course it's better on the CSR, but nice to have some help on CSP ( also on the Amex plat ).

Overall, the CSR downgrade seems like the way to go right now. Is there any rules limiting the ability to upgrade a card that was downgraded last year? I just need to let a full year pass, right?
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Old May 27, 2018, 3:48 pm
  #761  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTP, Hilton Diamond, etc
Posts: 126
I apologize if this has been covered already. I checked the wiki and searched the thread but didn't come up with anything.

Does Chase restrict how often the same card can be product-changed?
Yoksel is offline  
Old May 27, 2018, 10:35 pm
  #762  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 398
I think it's once a year.
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Old May 28, 2018, 4:37 am
  #763  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by Yoksel
I apologize if this has been covered already. I checked the wiki and searched the thread but didn't come up with anything.

Does Chase restrict how often the same card can be product-changed?
I wouldn't advise abusing it, but you can do this pretty frequently.
pallhedge is offline  
Old Jun 4, 2018, 2:47 pm
  #764  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 31
Proper process for cancelling SW card?

I have both the SW plus & premier cards and just hit my first anniversary on both cards.

I was planning to cancel the plus and reallocate the credit limit to the premier. However I read that you can reallocate to another chase personal card and would rather do that.

What is the proper method of accomplishing this? Both of the annual fees have hit the SW cards as of yesterday Should I pay off annual fees first? Then call to reallocate the credit limits to another card and finally cancelling?

Also if I do pay the annual fees off to bring balances to $0 how do I go about getting refunded for the annual fees?

Thank you for you for any input.
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Old Jun 6, 2018, 12:46 pm
  #765  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 48
Hi everyone, I recently did the double dip and got the CSR and CSP. My ultimate goal is to keep the CSR and also pick up the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited and use those 3 cards as my primaries.

By my calculations, I am at 3/24 now - 2 for the new Sapphire Cards and I also picked up the Ritz Chase card last summer which I plan to close soon. So what is the best path for getting the CF and CFU cards for me? I think Chase has a rule, only 2 applications within 30 days, so I guess at a min I need to wait that out, but just wanted to verify. After this summer we won't be traveling a whole lot so getting something with more than 1 UR / $1 spent would be nice.
heckofagator is offline  

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