Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Jul 29, 2016, 1:22 pm
#151
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: St. Louis, MO
Programs: Southwest Companion Pass
Posts: 790
Since your wife already has the CSP I see no reason to get if if you're not going to get the sign up bonus. What would be the point? You'd be giving up 50,000 points plus an extra 5,000 points for adding an AU and paying a $95 anual fee because it's not waved the first year.
Jul 29, 2016, 6:24 pm
#152
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,933
Jul 29, 2016, 10:00 pm
#153
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CLT
Programs: AA, UA, BA, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 2,074
Agree with the above - why do you need a CSP if your spouse has one? PC Slate to Freedom or Freedom Unlimited.
Jul 29, 2016, 11:52 pm
#154
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: BGR/PWM/ALB
Programs: AA, BA, UA, LH, AF/KLM, SPG Gold, Hyatt Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 29
Basically what everyone has said. You already have the ability to transfer UR points via your wife's account, and frankly the ability to transfer is the only real reason to keep CSP long term (unless you somehow get a hell of a lot of value out of primary rental car coverage). You'd be far better off PCing to either CF or FU with a higher earning rate, and using your wife's card to transfer.
1) Downgrade MileagePlus Explorer to the unadvertised no-fee United card. Keeps up your AAoA and still get 25% bonus on MileagePlus X purchases.
2) PC Slate to Freedom or Freedom Unlimited, whichever you would earn more on based on your spend patterns.
3) Consider having your wife downgrade one of her 2 UR-earning cards to a no-AF version (Ink Bold to Ink Cash if you don't spend over $25k in the 5x categories, or CSP to Freedom/FU--whichever of the two you don't get).
You really have no reason to pay more than one UR-earning card's AF between the two of you. You can use the no-AF cards to maximize your earning potential.
One final thought: how close are each of you to being out of 5/24? The new premium Sapphire card might interest either of you, all the details aren't known yet but it looks like 100k UR sign up bonus on release, $450 AF. If you're close to being out, this may be worth it. If not, just get yourselves down to one AF card and enjoy earning!
1) Downgrade MileagePlus Explorer to the unadvertised no-fee United card. Keeps up your AAoA and still get 25% bonus on MileagePlus X purchases.
2) PC Slate to Freedom or Freedom Unlimited, whichever you would earn more on based on your spend patterns.
3) Consider having your wife downgrade one of her 2 UR-earning cards to a no-AF version (Ink Bold to Ink Cash if you don't spend over $25k in the 5x categories, or CSP to Freedom/FU--whichever of the two you don't get).
You really have no reason to pay more than one UR-earning card's AF between the two of you. You can use the no-AF cards to maximize your earning potential.
One final thought: how close are each of you to being out of 5/24? The new premium Sapphire card might interest either of you, all the details aren't known yet but it looks like 100k UR sign up bonus on release, $450 AF. If you're close to being out, this may be worth it. If not, just get yourselves down to one AF card and enjoy earning!
Aug 5, 2016, 1:30 pm
#155
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, AS, UA, WN, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 88
The rumored 90 day policy for full refund of annual fee when downgrading is false. My Ink Plus annual fee posted May 1, statement cut May 28. Called on July 21 to downgrade to Ink Cash. Numerous reps confirmed I would get a full refund. Refund finally posted today and it was only for $79.20. Called in, rep stated that the other reps were misinformed. He couldn't refund the rest, even though I took notes with the date and rep name who told me otherwise. I was able to convince him to give me points to compensate, so I came out ahead as i essentially bought points for a penny each. The 90 day policy is simply to have the refund issued automatically versus 180 days to have it issued manually. If you outright cancel rather than downgrade, you will get a full refund up to 180 days. Downgrade is still at 60 days for full refund. Hope this helps.
Aug 10, 2016, 12:25 pm
#156
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Washington, DC area
Programs: Air: Many; Hotel: HH D, HY G, IHG P, MR S, RR
Posts: 504
Ink Plus product change to Ink Cash
The rumored 90 day policy for full refund of annual fee when downgrading is false. My Ink Plus annual fee posted May 1, statement cut May 28. Called on July 21 to downgrade to Ink Cash. Numerous reps confirmed I would get a full refund. Refund finally posted today and it was only for $79.20. Called in, rep stated that the other reps were misinformed. He couldn't refund the rest, even though I took notes with the date and rep name who told me otherwise. I was able to convince him to give me points to compensate, so I came out ahead as i essentially bought points for a penny each. The 90 day policy is simply to have the refund issued automatically versus 180 days to have it issued manually. If you outright cancel rather than downgrade, you will get a full refund up to 180 days. Downgrade is still at 60 days for full refund. Hope this helps.
1) Downgrade from Ink Plus to Ink Cash results in a pro-rated AF refund from the date the AF posts
2) Canceling Ink Plus results in the full AF refund within 90 days
He did not seem like the most informed CSR (i.e., could not answer my question about whether pro-ration is by days or months), and I was not ready to make a change yet (just calling to ask about a retention offer or downgrade options), so I don't know what portion of the AF (posted 7/1) would have been refunded.
Any other data points?
Also, can anyone confirm that after downgrading the Ink Plus to Ink Cash, that I would have to wait ~ one year to upgrade it back to Ink Plus? My plan is to downgrade and get the new CSP Reserve, but I might wait to downgrade until the new card is launched and I get accepted for it, since I don't want to lose my ability to transfer UR points.
Thanks!
Last edited by needtoescape; Aug 10, 2016 at 12:37 pm Reason: Add more content
Aug 10, 2016, 2:51 pm
#157
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, AS, UA, WN, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 88
What I can tell you from experience is that any downgrade within 60 days always resulted in a full refund of the annual fee.
What I have been told numerous times but have not tried yet is outright cancellation within 180 days will get you a manual refund of the full annual fee. My United Explorer fee posted on 6/1, and I intend to outright cancel it before 180 days to try this out.
I would not cancel an Ink card due to how hard they are to get and how valuable they are to keep.
I have never upgraded a card before, but when I asked the CSRs they told me I can do it anytime. Also, Chase will send you a letter in the mail about the downgrade and gives you so long to "reject the changes" and revert back. I do not know if this would trigger an immediate charge of the annual fee and if so, when the next annual fee would get charged, i.e. is it retroactive or strictly just going forward. If it is not retroactive, maybe we have a strategy here. Downgrade, then wait until the deadline on the letter and reject the change to save some money.
What I have been told numerous times but have not tried yet is outright cancellation within 180 days will get you a manual refund of the full annual fee. My United Explorer fee posted on 6/1, and I intend to outright cancel it before 180 days to try this out.
I would not cancel an Ink card due to how hard they are to get and how valuable they are to keep.
I have never upgraded a card before, but when I asked the CSRs they told me I can do it anytime. Also, Chase will send you a letter in the mail about the downgrade and gives you so long to "reject the changes" and revert back. I do not know if this would trigger an immediate charge of the annual fee and if so, when the next annual fee would get charged, i.e. is it retroactive or strictly just going forward. If it is not retroactive, maybe we have a strategy here. Downgrade, then wait until the deadline on the letter and reject the change to save some money.
The CSR I spoke with today told me:
1) Downgrade from Ink Plus to Ink Cash results in a pro-rated AF refund from the date the AF posts
2) Canceling Ink Plus results in the full AF refund within 90 days
He did not seem like the most informed CSR (i.e., could not answer my question about whether pro-ration is by days or months), and I was not ready to make a change yet (just calling to ask about a retention offer or downgrade options), so I don't know what portion of the AF (posted 7/1) would have been refunded.
Any other data points?
Also, can anyone confirm that after downgrading the Ink Plus to Ink Cash, that I would have to wait ~ one year to upgrade it back to Ink Plus? My plan is to downgrade and get the new CSP Reserve, but I might wait to downgrade until the new card is launched and I get accepted for it, since I don't want to lose my ability to transfer UR points.
Thanks!
1) Downgrade from Ink Plus to Ink Cash results in a pro-rated AF refund from the date the AF posts
2) Canceling Ink Plus results in the full AF refund within 90 days
He did not seem like the most informed CSR (i.e., could not answer my question about whether pro-ration is by days or months), and I was not ready to make a change yet (just calling to ask about a retention offer or downgrade options), so I don't know what portion of the AF (posted 7/1) would have been refunded.
Any other data points?
Also, can anyone confirm that after downgrading the Ink Plus to Ink Cash, that I would have to wait ~ one year to upgrade it back to Ink Plus? My plan is to downgrade and get the new CSP Reserve, but I might wait to downgrade until the new card is launched and I get accepted for it, since I don't want to lose my ability to transfer UR points.
Thanks!
Aug 10, 2016, 5:10 pm
#158
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Washington, DC area
Programs: Air: Many; Hotel: HH D, HY G, IHG P, MR S, RR
Posts: 504
I have never upgraded a card before, but when I asked the CSRs they told me I can do it anytime. Also, Chase will send you a letter in the mail about the downgrade and gives you so long to "reject the changes" and revert back. I do not know if this would trigger an immediate charge of the annual fee and if so, when the next annual fee would get charged, i.e. is it retroactive or strictly just going forward. If it is not retroactive, maybe we have a strategy here. Downgrade, then wait until the deadline on the letter and reject the change to save some money.
I finally got around to calling Chase re:downgrading/upgrading MileagePlus Cards today. Here's some info I got that I wasn't clear on before the call:
- I have 60 days from when MPE AF is posted to get a refund if I cancel
- I can downgrade any time, the AF credit will be pro-rated
- The no AF card also loses Visa Signature benefits
- Can't upgrade back to Explorer until 1 full year after downgrading
- Upgrading back to MPE won't restore Visa Signature benefits
Aug 17, 2016, 1:11 pm
#159
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 122
Freedom, Sapphire preferred and Ink Plus
I have all three cards. Both Sapphire preferred and Ink Plus have annual fee, I am considering cancel one of them. Which is one worth more than the other?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Aug 17, 2016, 2:23 pm
#160
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 337
Does Chase allow product change on SW Plus Card? Annual fee is up on mine and I don't want to keep the card as I don't use it nor do I fly SW.
Aug 17, 2016, 2:48 pm
#161
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: LAX
Posts: 51
Or you can keep the CSP and convert the Ink+ to an Ink Cash. The cash still earns 5x at office supply, cell, internet, cable tv, and 2x on gas and restaurants (as opposed to gas and hotels for the +). Also the Cash is capped at 25k per year as opposed to the 50k per year of the +.
The Freedom and the Cash have no annual fee.
EDIT: Deleted a now redundant link.
Last edited by RBM3; Aug 17, 2016 at 8:14 pm
Aug 17, 2016, 9:50 pm
#162
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 122
Convert the Sapphire to the Freedom card, you can then earn 5x on the rotating categories (and warehouse stores until the end of the year). You can still transfer points to partner airlines/hotels using your Ink+.
Or you can keep the CSP and convert the Ink+ to an Ink Cash. The cash still earns 5x at office supply, cell, internet, cable tv, and 2x on gas and restaurants (as opposed to gas and hotels for the +). Also the Cash is capped at 25k per year as opposed to the 50k per year of the +.
The Freedom and the Cash have no annual fee.
EDIT: Deleted a now redundant link.
Or you can keep the CSP and convert the Ink+ to an Ink Cash. The cash still earns 5x at office supply, cell, internet, cable tv, and 2x on gas and restaurants (as opposed to gas and hotels for the +). Also the Cash is capped at 25k per year as opposed to the 50k per year of the +.
The Freedom and the Cash have no annual fee.
EDIT: Deleted a now redundant link.
Aug 18, 2016, 8:08 am
#163
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IAH, HOU
Programs: MileagePlus 1K, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Titanium/Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,073
Is this a new policy? 180 days to get your AF refunded
Just called Chase to close my Marriott card. Was told that I now have 180 days from the time the annual fee is billed to get it back as opposed to 30 days. I challenged the CSR saying that the legal language on the statement still says 30 days but she reassured me that this is something relatively new. Is this new or has this been around for some time? And is it across all cards?
Aug 18, 2016, 11:41 am
#164
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: All of them, Katie
Posts: 224
Just called Chase to close my Marriott card. Was told that I now have 180 days from the time the annual fee is billed to get it back as opposed to 30 days. I challenged the CSR saying that the legal language on the statement still says 30 days but she reassured me that this is something relatively new. Is this new or has this been around for some time? And is it across all cards?
Aug 18, 2016, 1:14 pm
#165
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: stuck with AA in PHL
Posts: 112
what to do with CSP upon getting CSR
assuming (cross fingers!) that i am approved for the Chase Sapphire Reserve, I'm planning on downgrading my existing CSP to a Freedom (I do not currently have a Freedom of any variety). should i wait a certain amount of time after approval for the CSR to do so? i want to make sure that Chase recognizes that I have a new UR-earning account, and does not strip me of my UR points when I downgrade the CSP. does anyone see any danger or faulty thinking in this plan? how long after getting the CSR would you wait to perform the CSP downgrade? THANKS!