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Chase closed my credit card account(s) [Consolidated]

Chase closed my credit card account(s) [Consolidated]

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Old Dec 23, 18, 4:22 am   -   Wikipost
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If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
  1. Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last name?
  2. Did you sell UR points to someone?
  3. Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months?
  4. Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards?
  5. Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards?
  6. Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks?
  7. Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit in the past 2 months? ("Many" may be hard to define.)
  8. If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?
  9. Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months?
  10. Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit?
  11. Approximately what percentage of spending was on gift cards this year?
  12. How much of your bill do you typically pay using WM or KMart bill payment if any?
  13. Do you have a Chase mortgage or other account that might be profitable to Chase?
  14. Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score?
Related threads: 2013.1 2013.4 2013.9 2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html

On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.

Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:

001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
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Old Jan 30, 18, 12:14 am
  #1741  
 
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Originally Posted by gumercindo View Post
As to your first question, does Chase look at type of GC (store vs VGC)?
Because now all issuers get detailed transactional data, Chase definitely knows what people are buying.

So store GCs are definitely safer than any kind of cash GCs, like VGC.

Originally Posted by kaiotes View Post
Am i F'd?!
It depends on what you have exactly purchased for tat $50K x2 office supplies.

However, since my guess that those transactions may be MS-related, you are pretty much doomed
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Old Jan 30, 18, 3:09 pm
  #1742  
 
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alright it was a false scare. they flagged my account because i put in a transfer for my new account from a previously verified account. makes absolutely no sense. forced me to visit the branch.
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Old Jan 31, 18, 5:57 pm
  #1743  
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Originally Posted by kaiotes View Post
I been getting many invitations to open Chase biz checking account. I finally bit.went into the branch and opened a biz checking account for 30K UR. Made the transfer for the acct opening deposit, Everything went smoothly.
As of this afternoon, i got a call from chase 800-935-9935. no one spoke when i picked up. i tried to login to my biz login tonight and was told online access was locked. i tried calling and was told that i needed to talk to loss prevention. i have not had any activity since i opened my account Saturday. No problems using my Ink card (just tried charging tonight.) I don't have issues logging into my personal accounts. I dont do any funny transfers to third parties. been at least 6mo since my last UR transfer.

i even had pretargted offers to open CSP (60k bonus) and Chase cash ink ($300?) i forgot.
i do have multiple chase cards and checking and savings accounts. and a 1M UR balance, via 2 Ink cards. did not join in on the CSR fun. been a while since i opened a chase card and at least 6mo since my last new cc app.

concerned they are getting me for the office supply spend at staples ($50K x2 each year for the last few years)

(No. They put a cap on the earning with reasons. If they are not happy with it, they would have shut you down long ago, but you even received a retention offer while many did not, on your Inks that maxed out. Those speculations on the Level3 or whatnot, are just speculations. Chase does not operate this way from all we have known so far.)

I wont be able to call them til they open up in the morning.

Am i F'd?!
It is your linked external account and then the Transfer in has caused this suspension.

Here was my experience early last year, on a LONG EXISTING biz account. I am sure y'all know that linked external Payment Accounts do not equal to the linked external bank accounts that can use ACH back and forth. I used the deposit verification method to link an external account to the Chase checking account because I wanted (stupidly) to have money in that account so directly transfer to my Inks, versus initiating payments on Chase site via the PULL method from the external payment accounts.
The external account was successfully linked. 2 days later I initiated in my Chase checking account a PULL ACH from the linked external account. The next day when I wanted to check if the ACH had happened - I got the EXACT message you showed here.
Called and got Manila Loss Prevention / Security Dept. The gal had heavy accent and wanted to make a 3-way call to the external bank to "verify" that I owned the external bank account, and that "I had enough money in the external account to do the transfer to Chase." ...? The linkage was done via deposit verification method, not instant method...
Anyway, the external bank rep was initially awfully confused by the Filipina from Chase due to her strong accent. Eventually I had to chime in to request the external bank's rep to verify my account ownership and the sufficient fund for the transfer. After the Filipina rep was satisfied, my online access was unlocked.
I later complained to my banker at the branch. She was shocked to hear that. She said she heard people had issues when linking external bank accounts with instant method (gave Chase system the passwords) but she had not heard that using deposit method also caused issues as that was how she advised her clients to use when linking external bank accounts, to prevent this sudden suspension of access.

Therefore, you are not doomed at all. Just an oversensitive Chase fraud detection system if your cards are still working and this happened right after your transfer money into the brand new biz checking.

Next time, use a check instead of the online transfer from a newly verified external account. It seems unless your verified account has aged, even a transfer IN, would trigger a suspension of your online access. It definitely a flaw in their Algorithm.

Last edited by Happy; Jan 31, 18 at 9:09 pm
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Old Jan 31, 18, 6:09 pm
  #1744  
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
Because now all issuers get detailed transactional data, Chase definitely knows what people are buying.

So store GCs are definitely safer than any kind of cash GCs, like VGC.

It depends on what you have exactly purchased for tat $50K x2 office supplies.

However, since my guess that those transactions may be MS-related, you are pretty much doomed

FYI, when Chase shut down your accounts, you do not lose online access. You would see the available credit limit on your accounts now show 0. But you still have online access and with ability to perform some functions.

In fact, virtually all banks would still let a customer have online access even the accounts are shut down. The tell tale is all your cards available credit now should show 0.

The online access suspension is related to transfer made from newly verified linked external account, even it is transfer IN as reported by kaiotes who funded his new biz checking account via a Transfer In of new money.. Personally and others have experienced such online account access suspensions after initiating a transfer using the newly verified external bank account. It is a flaw in Chase fraud detection system. Period.

Last edited by mia; Feb 2, 18 at 8:37 am Reason: Removed personal commentary
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Old Jan 31, 18, 8:38 pm
  #1745  
 
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my acct was linked for well over a year. Have done many bill pays out of it. They were over cautious on transfers into the new acct that was opened. Don't get them....
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Old Jan 31, 18, 9:22 pm
  #1746  
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Originally Posted by kaiotes View Post
my acct was linked for well over a year. Have done many bill pays out of it. They were over cautious on transfers into the new acct that was opened. Don't get them....
A linked PAYMENT ACCOUNT as "Have done many bill pays out of it." does not equal to the external bank account that allows you to make transfer of funds in and out. They are treated differently in Chase system.
The external bank account I linked also is the Payment Account that has been used for well over 2 years, being used for payments to both biz and personal checking at Chase. It does not make any difference!
On top of it, it seems as long as one account in the linked pair is new, be it the external or the Chase own account, a transfer would trigger the suspension of online access.

It is the design flaw in their fraud detection system. It has caused a lot of inconvenience to the customers but as my banker said, she has given numerous feedback on customer complaints, but the stupid algorithm continues.

We do the bonus on Saving every year but we just bring a check to meet the deposit requirement at account opening and be done with it. Our banker said this was the smoothest way.
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Old Jan 31, 18, 9:27 pm
  #1747  
 
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
We do the bonus on Saving every year but we just bring a check to meet the deposit requirement at account opening and be done with it. Our banker said this was the smoothest way.
Why don't you ACH the funds *into* Chase from the other bank? ACH pulls are always risky, because the bank is effectively trusting you that the external bank account will have the funds. I never use ACH pull, I always push out, which to banks on both sides guarantees that the funds being transferred are actually available.
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Old Jan 31, 18, 9:37 pm
  #1748  
 
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Originally Posted by blaz View Post
Why don't you ACH the funds *into* Chase from the other bank? ACH pulls are always risky, because the bank is effectively trusting you that the external bank account will have the funds. I never use ACH pull, I always push out, which to banks on both sides guarantees that the funds being transferred are actually available.
Not sure why ACH pulls are "always risky" unless someone can't manage their bank balance. Maybe I'm old-school but I find it easier and simpler to schedule my payments on the credit card's website.
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Old Jan 31, 18, 9:45 pm
  #1749  
 
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Originally Posted by CodeAdam10 View Post
Not sure why ACH pulls are "always risky" unless someone can't manage their bank balance. Maybe I'm old-school but I find it easier and simpler to schedule my payments on the credit card's website.
ACH pulls are risky from the bank's perspective, because they don't know what the balance of the other account is. While you know that the funds are available, the (local) bank doesn't. Transfers can be reversed by the remote bank long after the local bank has already credited the funds (days, or even weeks). That's why generally banks will place a hold on pull ACH transfers.

Here's an article that explains the difference between pull and push:

ACH Payment System Push versus Pull - The Money Skinny
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Old Feb 1, 18, 12:20 am
  #1750  
 
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Don't get the point of 2 deposit verification if they still lack confidence that it's a legit acct
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Old Feb 1, 18, 1:36 pm
  #1751  
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Originally Posted by blaz View Post
Why don't you ACH the funds *into* Chase from the other bank? ACH pulls are always risky, because the bank is effectively trusting you that the external bank account will have the funds. I never use ACH pull, I always push out, which to banks on both sides guarantees that the funds being transferred are actually available.
I do not know ACH pulls are always risky. I do that all the time with other banks - none of them has a system as sensitive as Chase.

For the "assumption" you mention, ACH Pull funds generally are subj to a hold which period depends on how long the history of the account that you initiate the PULL from. It is very common the HOLD is 5 business days for an established account and 10 business days for new account. The amount would not be included in the "Available Balance" but still earn interest / meet account balance threshold.
Therefore there is already mechanism in place to mitigate the risk.

OTOH, if the fund is PUSHED in, it is included in the Available Balance the next day.

Like I said, Chase is the only bank I have encountered such sensitive fraud detection - all other major banks dont have such issue. Worth to add, the ACHed pull was only $2K - hardly any risk when the Chase business checking account has been established from 2005 or 2006, actively used all the time.
For my other banks the ACH Pulls often in the 4 figures. Even CapOne does not blip despite how people berate CapOne.

Originally Posted by CodeAdam10 View Post
Not sure why ACH pulls are "always risky" unless someone can't manage their bank balance. Maybe I'm old-school but I find it easier and simpler to schedule my payments on the credit card's website.
Exactly. I can understand the Instant method might post issue but 2 deposit verification takes several business days so stolen userid and password have much bigger chance to be detected than the instant method. Hence my Chase banker was shocked as the 2 deposit verification is what she recommended to the clients to avoid the ultra sensitive system of Chase.

On top of that. if the other bank does not have the fund, the ACH most likely would be REJECTED. Unless the other bank's overdraft coverage is fairly sizable or there are linked accounts would cover the overdraft amount overnight. I am making the assumption on the ACH amount would not be a few hundreds, as if it would trigger a bank's algorithm, the fund ought to be large enough to pass a threshold. Apparently Chase system has a very low threshold as when that happened on my account, the fund was merely $2K. Other banks I have done PULL method would not blip even the amount is far far bigger in the 4 to 5 figures.

So I really dont understand the "risky" part argument.

Besides the fund that is "pulled in" would NOT become available until X business days have passed - long enough to have the ACH nullified before it is being withdrawn.

Originally Posted by kaiotes View Post
Don't get the point of 2 deposit verification if they still lack confidence that it's a legit acct
Right you are. My banker said they received a lot of client complains but all they could do was to reflect such feedback, which apparently all fell into crack.

I have not encountered any issues with any other banks when using the 2 deposit verification method.

What I personally feel is, the most vulnerable aspect of Chase online is how their system recognize the computer that used to log in. I could not find anywhere on the screen to indicate the device used to log in is a trusted one or a public one. All other banks have such option, but when Chase does not recognize the device, Chase would ask you where to send the temporary code, with email / voice call / text. It would not provide an option for you to identify the device should be remembered or disregard (one time use). As a result, Chase system would remember that device used to log in with the temporary code and then grants access without the need for temp code forever and ever! I found out that the work station I used from a friend's office in Hong Kong several years ago, can still access my Chase online account WITHOUT the need to get a temporary code....
Now, this to me, is a very big risk Chase exposes its customers to.

Last edited by Happy; Feb 1, 18 at 1:56 pm
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Old Feb 1, 18, 5:48 pm
  #1752  
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Last edited by mia; Feb 2, 18 at 8:56 am
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Old Feb 11, 18, 9:29 am
  #1753  
 
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Multiple family members at same address collect points. No MS
One family member applied for chase business card and was denied. On recon, chase suggested they re-apply. re-applied, approved. Then 2 weeks later all chase cards closed (6 months ago - existing business card, plus new one that was just applied for). Reason in the letter states you are not responsible. This family member is at 5/24 and will be at 2/24 in another 1-2 months. Sometimes gets email offers to sign up for chase cards, but no pre-approvals

Do you think this person needs to abandon all new chase applications due to the risk of other family members at the same address being shutdown? or is it ok to apply when they get to 2/24?

Other Family members will also be under 5/24 in a few months and want to apply for new cards. I have read Chase is shutting down more people lately. Do you think there is risk for others?
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Old Feb 11, 18, 6:04 pm
  #1754  
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Originally Posted by points1 View Post
Multiple family members at same address collect points. No MS
One family member applied for chase business card and was denied. On recon, chase suggested they re-apply. re-applied, approved. Then 2 weeks later all chase cards closed (6 months ago - existing business card, plus new one that was just applied for). Reason in the letter states you are not responsible. This family member is at 5/24 and will be at 2/24 in another 1-2 months. Sometimes gets email offers to sign up for chase cards, but no pre-approvals

Do you think this person needs to abandon all new chase applications due to the risk of other family members at the same address being shutdown? or is it ok to apply when they get to 2/24?

Other Family members will also be under 5/24 in a few months and want to apply for new cards. I have read Chase is shutting down more people lately. Do you think there is risk for others?
Exactly how the advice of "re-apply" is given by the Chase recon rep? and how soon the applicant re-applied?

Have that family member called Chase to ask for a review?

What possible factors would make Chase gave this shut down reason "states you are not responsible." - not responsible on what? Late payments? Given the person was 5/24 and then 2/24, apparently the person does not fit into the "burst out" pattern, as in having applied a lot of cards in short period of time.

You may want to read this reddit thread which someone has kept a summary on DPs from people who were shut down (some of them have their accounts reinstated after talking to Chase - obviously the bank made mistakes, too, in its zealous efforts to minimize risk and shut down people without good reasons.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/co...ts_megathread/
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Old Feb 11, 18, 7:28 pm
  #1755  
 
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
Exactly how the advice of "re-apply" is given by the Chase recon rep? and how soon the applicant re-applied?

Have that family member called Chase to ask for a review?

What possible factors would make Chase gave this shut down reason "states you are not responsible." - not responsible on what? Late payments? Given the person was 5/24 and then 2/24, apparently the person does not fit into the "burst out" pattern, as in having applied a lot of cards in short period of time.

You may want to read this reddit thread which someone has kept a summary on DPs from people who were shut down (some of them have their accounts reinstated after talking to Chase - obviously the bank made mistakes, too, in its zealous efforts to minimize risk and shut down people without good reasons.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/co...ts_megathread/
Family member did call twice, but the Chase rep would not provide details. Based on the very little info they got we suspect it might be related to sharing the card (with consent). All bills paid on time or early. Any thoughts if they might be black listed. Should they reapply when under 5/24 or wait a couple of years?
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