May 15, 2014, 8:16 am
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
This thread is now archived. Please follow the topic here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-rewards/1986148-chase-closed-my-credit-card-account-s-tales-speculation-2019-thread.html
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
When someone reports an account closure here, a lot of the same questions get asked. It might be useful to answer some questions in advance. This could help figure out what happened or how to proceed:
- Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last name?
- Did you sell UR points to someone?
- Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months?
- Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards?
- Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards?
- Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks?
- Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit in the past 2 months? ("Many" may be hard to define.)
- If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?
- Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months?
- Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit?
- Approximately what percentage of spending was on gift cards this year?
- How much of your bill do you typically pay using WM or KMart bill payment if any?
- Do you have a Chase mortgage or other account that might be profitable to Chase?
- Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score?
2013.9
2013.12 2014.6
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...ta-points.html
On 1/4/15, LivelyFL noted that 34 posts have referenced account closures (updated 1/25/15):
1, 55, 80, 108, 117, 129, 146, 165, 182, 212, 221, 222, 232, 235, 262, 272, 281, 326, 364, 410, 411, 428, 475, 477, 482, 513, 552, 586, 620, 648, 656, 662, 714, 718, 784 and 815.
Mortgasm provided more detail as follows:
001 - moarmiles little explaination - 'inconsistent spending'
055 - brettskyg chase gift cards tiny ms
080 - Artemk checking chase gift card, tiny MS, international wires, wall-mart BP
108 - TTnc4me (105 actually) no info
117 - rodsren
129 - Kybosh chase gift card checking
146 - mintcilantro - checking 6k/month MS, BB payments from another ss#, some MO/AP, 7new cards in 90days, short cycling
165 - newcomr - checking
182 - thehawk75 - heavy MSw/other banks,
212 - LRD - 2x spend of 20k /month (on two cards), checking
221 - iceman 77_7, no info
222 - jk2 no info
232 - hitman1420 checking , heavy MS activity (no number)
235 - clearlyanewb checking, MS activity (10k AGC and more), light credit history, 10 recent inquiries
262 - brc01 - shortcycling, some MS (18k/month over a few cards), 1
272 - rambo - 70% MS on 5 cards, WM BP of 16k/month on 5 cards
281 - prestonv - heavy MS - 20k/month on multiple chase cards, heavy WMBP (ink stayed open)
326 - pacupgo - false alarm, no shutdown
364 - edh101985 - tiny MS (bonus only) , 4 chase cards in 6 months,
410 - msetr - lots of freedom/ink ms
411 - standaman360 - international wires (business), million dollar balances,
428 - queensgambit - gambling transactions, UR point transfer from SO, 5 chase apps 3 new chase cc in 45 days, Blogger points coach
475 - dogloverjb - checking, international wires,
477 - ftomasz - 14 inquiries in 8 months, 5 chase, minimal MS, rapid upswing in credit, paying from multiple accounts
482 - liw5215 - Heavy MS, re-entered after 13 months
513 - thegasguru - checking, $3k/month MO to checking, NO MS, AP,
552 - LAXtoWorld - 3 cards in 30 days
586 - adavydov7 checking, $1k APs,
648 - CMHFlyerOH - checking, MO, 3k gift cards
656 - I can see for miles - Maxed UR 5x rewards on Freedom and Ink cards. Chased closed all accounts. Was approved for Ritz Carlton card 14 months later and did nothing unusual with it, other than lower CL from 30K to 10K to free up CL for possible approvals. Two subsequent Chase apps (Chase Ink and Marriott Rewards), on separate dates 3+ months later, were declined for a "previous unsatisfactory relationship ..."
662 - frogdog51 - Chase VGCs (Reapproved in 12 months)
677 - Subdawg - closed for piggybacking
714 - Mamibear - 'abuse' redcard MS
718 - maxswanson - MS, 11 chase cards, traded UR, (reapproved after 12 months)
752 - peaser - "reputational risk" associated with the business (decision reversed later)
757 - uncommonsensical checking, 3 Cashier's Check deposits with quick w/d (the w/d were to pay CHASE credit cards! ridiculous 'loss prevention' dept. gods). All CC's closed 2 days later. Tried EX Office- they seem to have zero power once the Mullah in loss prevention has issued a fatwa (my guess: some 27 year old with a god complex).
762 - knopfler - checking closed (all credit cards closed in both mine and Mrs. Knopflers accounts about three weeks after checking closure)
771 - milemonkey - 'reputational Risk" connected to Attorney General lawsuit
784 - unstable one: 2 cash deposits over 10k to chase checking
815 - dukerau - one time UR point sale, 77% spending is 5x,
Chase closed my credit card account(s) [Archived 2013-mid 2019]
Dec 22, 2018, 10:42 pm
#2416
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 662
How silly would it be to MS on my ink cash about 15k a year(with visa gift cards for instance, at a place without L3), if it’s the ONLY spend I put on the card?
Also have another ch@se card with reg spend, and at 5/24 right now.
Would that raise eyebrows? Shutdown risk if I’m manually reviewed?
Also have another ch@se card with reg spend, and at 5/24 right now.
Would that raise eyebrows? Shutdown risk if I’m manually reviewed?
i would say you should be ok but I’m not an expert.
Dec 23, 2018, 8:03 am
#2417
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PHL (kinda, no airport is really close)
Programs: AA Exp, but not sure for how long. Enterprise Platinum woo-hoo!
Posts: 4,550
Barred - Any Ideas
I doubt anyone can help but I'll try.
In 2012 I had an active need for miles. I was married to someone who lived in Canada and traveled to Europe every summer. I was buying UR points from co-workers. Everything was above board. I'd call Chase and tell them I wanted to transfer points from a co-worker, they'd ask both of us our account numbers and mothers' maiden name, and it was done. I even called once just to ask if it was permissible to buy points and they said yes.
I did this about 4-5 times, and then called once and was told I couldn't do it - it was around July. So I stopped.
In November, we decided to cancel my wife's SR card and transfer her points to me. Different last names, same address. This is clearly permissible under the rules. Three weeks later they cancelled my SR card. I was able to get an Ink business card (I think I had applied a week or two earlier) but since then I've been blackballed from Chase. I wrote to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (back when they considered the "consumers" they were supposed to be protecting to be actual consumers and not payday lenders) with no success. Since then I've applied once or twice for a Chase card and been denied for "Bad prior history with company." I wrote to Chase executive customer service sometime in (I think) 2017 and they told me to take a long walk off a short pier.
Emphasize that I never did an actual transfer without a CSR knowing I was transferring from a non-family member.
I can't think of anything to do to get back in Chase's good graces.
When I had their cards, some of them were churned, but some were used as regular charge cards, I think we used the SR card that way. I don't think they cancelled any other cards, although I cancelled my Southwest card. I still have the Ink card.
In 2012 I had an active need for miles. I was married to someone who lived in Canada and traveled to Europe every summer. I was buying UR points from co-workers. Everything was above board. I'd call Chase and tell them I wanted to transfer points from a co-worker, they'd ask both of us our account numbers and mothers' maiden name, and it was done. I even called once just to ask if it was permissible to buy points and they said yes.
I did this about 4-5 times, and then called once and was told I couldn't do it - it was around July. So I stopped.
In November, we decided to cancel my wife's SR card and transfer her points to me. Different last names, same address. This is clearly permissible under the rules. Three weeks later they cancelled my SR card. I was able to get an Ink business card (I think I had applied a week or two earlier) but since then I've been blackballed from Chase. I wrote to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (back when they considered the "consumers" they were supposed to be protecting to be actual consumers and not payday lenders) with no success. Since then I've applied once or twice for a Chase card and been denied for "Bad prior history with company." I wrote to Chase executive customer service sometime in (I think) 2017 and they told me to take a long walk off a short pier.
Emphasize that I never did an actual transfer without a CSR knowing I was transferring from a non-family member.
I can't think of anything to do to get back in Chase's good graces.
When I had their cards, some of them were churned, but some were used as regular charge cards, I think we used the SR card that way. I don't think they cancelled any other cards, although I cancelled my Southwest card. I still have the Ink card.
Last edited by redtop43; Dec 23, 2018 at 6:20 pm Reason: Significant typo
Dec 23, 2018, 8:49 am
#2418
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,828
From the Chase Ultimate Rewards Rules & Regulations:
" Points earned are not the property of the Cardholder and are not transferable, have no cash value, and cannot be used as
payment of any obligation to us or our affiliates, except to the extent specifically enumerated in the Redemption Rules. Any points
accrued shall be permanently forfeited if your Account has been closed, or upon the Cardholder’s death. If there is any abuse of the
Program, failure to follow Program terms, or any misrepresentation by you, all unredeemed points shall be
forfeited and no additional points shall accumulate."
" Points earned are not the property of the Cardholder and are not transferable, have no cash value, and cannot be used as
payment of any obligation to us or our affiliates, except to the extent specifically enumerated in the Redemption Rules. Any points
accrued shall be permanently forfeited if your Account has been closed, or upon the Cardholder’s death. If there is any abuse of the
Program, failure to follow Program terms, or any misrepresentation by you, all unredeemed points shall be
forfeited and no additional points shall accumulate."
Dec 23, 2018, 9:26 am
#2419
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Chase has fired you. Find another card issuer and obey the rules as written with that new card issuer and all will be well.
It is not worth the cost of a toll-free call or the electricity used to transmit an email to engage Chase any further.
It is not worth the cost of a toll-free call or the electricity used to transmit an email to engage Chase any further.
Dec 23, 2018, 1:13 pm
#2420
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 205
I doubt anyone can help but I'll try.
In 2012 I had an active need for miles. I was married to someone who lived in Canada and traveled to Europe every summer. I was buying UR points from co-workers. Everything was above board. I'd call Chase and tell them I wanted to transfer points from a co-worker, they'd ask both of us our account numbers and mothers' maiden name, and it was done. I even called once just to ask if it was permissible to buy points and they said yes.
I did this about 4-5 times, and then called once and was told I could do it - it was around July. So I stopped. (Bolding mine)
In 2012 I had an active need for miles. I was married to someone who lived in Canada and traveled to Europe every summer. I was buying UR points from co-workers. Everything was above board. I'd call Chase and tell them I wanted to transfer points from a co-worker, they'd ask both of us our account numbers and mothers' maiden name, and it was done. I even called once just to ask if it was permissible to buy points and they said yes.
I did this about 4-5 times, and then called once and was told I could do it - it was around July. So I stopped. (Bolding mine)
Regardless, you may have to live mostly through your wife going forward with Chase (unless she's blackballed, too) and if they keep your remaining accounts open, I'd be prim and proper with all things Chase-related. Perhaps with good conduct, a thawing of their iciness will occur over time. Antagonizing Chase by ratting them out to consumer affairs or other compliance agencies would probably, at best, get confiscated miles back as a final bid of adieu but it doesn't sound like that happened. This may also "force" Chase to dig in their heels and is why many of us recommend that as a last resort.
It sucks that something innocuous like what you described was your downfall but Chase has decided to cut ties with you. Like when one gets dumped, it is best to move on and succeed by living well in my opinion.
Best wishes,
Dec 23, 2018, 6:24 pm
#2422
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PHL (kinda, no airport is really close)
Programs: AA Exp, but not sure for how long. Enterprise Platinum woo-hoo!
Posts: 4,550
To answer all who replied - I was only doing things that Chase CSR's permitted me to do. Once they told me I couldn't (sorry for typo in original post) I stopped. Although I could have done these transfers online, I didn't. I did them with Chase CSR's and told them exactly what I was doing.
It's like asking a cop if you can park in a certain place, he says yes, then he gives you a ticket saying you're too close to the intersection.
It's like asking a cop if you can park in a certain place, he says yes, then he gives you a ticket saying you're too close to the intersection.
Dec 23, 2018, 6:27 pm
#2423
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,385
u that ticket after the first one said the illegal parking was okay.
Dec 23, 2018, 7:08 pm
#2424
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,828
The closer analogy would be a cop telling you that it is OK to park under the giant yellow "NO PARKING" sign. Buying and selling UR points has never been legal. Perhaps you were telling the CSR that the other person was a family member?????
Dec 24, 2018, 9:04 am
#2425
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
A rep is not akin to a cop. What you did is more like asking a guy sweeping the street if it's OK to drive your car into the shopping mall and do doughnuts in the food court.
Dec 24, 2018, 2:06 pm
#2427
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
The original thread is here:
Chase closed my Sapphire Preferred account due to transfers to other UR accounts.
...it's important to read in the context of Chase's 2012 policies and practices, rather than applying 2018 standards. However, today's question is not, Why did Chase close my account? redtop43 is asking only if Chase can be persuaded to allow opening of a new card account.
In my experience, the first step when seeking forgiveness is to accept full responsibility for one's errors. Still blaming the frontline telephone agents who made the transfers does not seem to reflect this approach, BUT it may not matter when dealing with a mass market card factory.
Chase closed my Sapphire Preferred account due to transfers to other UR accounts.
...it's important to read in the context of Chase's 2012 policies and practices, rather than applying 2018 standards. However, today's question is not, Why did Chase close my account? redtop43 is asking only if Chase can be persuaded to allow opening of a new card account.
In my experience, the first step when seeking forgiveness is to accept full responsibility for one's errors. Still blaming the frontline telephone agents who made the transfers does not seem to reflect this approach, BUT it may not matter when dealing with a mass market card factory.
Dec 24, 2018, 3:42 pm
#2428
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,740
May be OP can write a concise letter to "plead guilty" but not without certain circumstances that led to commit such errors, to the executive office and see if someone would actually read it and give him a 2nd chance?
Dec 25, 2018, 3:14 pm
#2429
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,740
The fact that redtop43 did every one of such transactions via a phone call to Chase and the customer service reps did the transfer for him, is in fact a crucial point should this be a case in trial of a real court.
The reps SHOULD know the rules even the system has not safeguarded it.
Presumably it was due to the freely transfer nature that led Chase to change the rules to a much more restrictive one, but that was AFTER reptop43 has done multiple transfer facilitated by the Chase customer service reps.
His misfortune was due to that he has done one too many (the last request was rejected and that probably led to account scrutiny.)
The reps SHOULD know the rules even the system has not safeguarded it.
Presumably it was due to the freely transfer nature that led Chase to change the rules to a much more restrictive one, but that was AFTER reptop43 has done multiple transfer facilitated by the Chase customer service reps.
His misfortune was due to that he has done one too many (the last request was rejected and that probably led to account scrutiny.)
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Dec 28, 2018 at 7:41 am Reason: Removed edited quote
Dec 25, 2018, 5:00 pm
#2430
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 13,811
While everyone is spot on, I just want to give my 2 cents on some key issues:
1. Ink business cards ARE business cards for all purposes. Not just Chase, but many issuers do make it clear that certain consumer protections may not be available to business cards.
2. CFPB is merely a mail forwarder, which simply refers your "inquiry" to the entity involved. CFPB is not obligated to act.
In November, we decided to cancel my wife's SR card and transfer her points to me. Different last names, same address. This is clearly permissible under the rules. Three weeks later they cancelled my SR card. I was able to get an Ink business card (I think I had applied a week or two earlier) but since then I've been blackballed from Chase. I wrote to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (back when they considered the "consumers" they were supposed to be protecting to be actual consumers and not payday lenders) with no success. Since then I've applied once or twice for a Chase card and been denied for "Bad prior history with company." I wrote to Chase executive customer service sometime in (I think) 2017 and they told me to take a long walk off a short pier. .
2. CFPB is merely a mail forwarder, which simply refers your "inquiry" to the entity involved. CFPB is not obligated to act.