cx4ever

Would be cool to see a non-reverse herringbone for the new J. I like it very much but so many airlines have adopted it or sth similar that it's not special anymore.

djsflynn

My understanding is that was very much a crux of discussions: the comfort and familiarity of passengers with the current style & layout vs the risk & gains of Something Different.

It's worth bearing in mind that Cathay adopted the Zodiac Cirrus in 2011, so we are now looking at a platform that's a decade old. This does not of itself mean the product is bad – however it does mean that there's been a decade for competitors to either catch up or vault ahead.

And it's the latter which airlines tend to focus on, at least when they've the cash and market positioning (actual or desired) to do so: if you only play catch-up, then you risk falling behind even quicker over successive years.

So, my understanding is that the 'vault ahead' option weighed heavily in discussions. Exactly how heavily, and if that weight tipped the balance and won the argument, remains to be seen.

percysmith

Is there something definitely superior though? I can think of ANA Business Suites and Qsuites but I haven’t been on them.

Hard to envisage product superior to Zodiac, without occupying a lot more floor space. Maybe CX just needs to get those FB3 seats on 33Es and any 77Ws who haven’t yet have them, nothing really much more required or can be wished for.

Creativity really isn’t CX’s strong suit: Olympus, coffin.

boybi

OT: which among the different seat designs in the entire airline industry occupies the least floor space and is still very much comfortable to sit in?

percysmith

Personally the Qantas domestic recliner meets that description for me, but I know I am in the minority https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...l#post31918866

djsflynn

There's several new contenders which could do the job, but I'd agree, the Zodiac has set a pretty good benchmark. But not everyone will agree, especially with ten years' of hindsight and development....

Olympus was just ahead of its time, it'll be coming back as the ideal 'isolation suite' for the COVID-19 era.

percysmith

I think you meant coffin. Olympus is the hard shell economy seat http://downloads.cathaypacific.com/c.../Olympus_y.pdf

cx4ever

The Qsuite has 38 seats in the space CX fits 46, and ANA fits 40 suites in the space CX fits 45. I think they're pretty similar except the ANA seat is much wider. I've never flown on the Qsuite but the seats look genuinely narrow. So any improved product would probably take more space. CX was the first to introduce the Cirrus product though, so maybe they really can find something better.

percysmith

That's what I think too, just on paper. After the novelty factor has worn off is it genuinely better?

I suppose you can throw in Vantage XL or Super Diamond but I don't think they're definitely superior to (or different from) Cirrus.

Yes but Cirrus was an enhancement of the existing US Airways Envoy seat. Not something it created from blank slate like Olympus or Coffin.

djsflynn

Ah yes, I did indeed mean the coffin class cubicle, internally dubbed FB1 and I think the project name for that was Hercules?

My gosh, the pairing of that hard-shell Y seat and the coffin-class J cubicle was not a shining moment for Cathay's product team. I recall a few SYD-HKG-TPE trips in that economy seat, now SYD-HKG is a relatively short leg for us Aussies but my lower back was absolutely killing me by the time I got to HKG.

djsflynn

I don't find the Qsuite too narrow, but I do find it's much better to be in one of the suites where the seat is away from the door (eg directly at the window) rather than snug up against the door and partition, as the latter makes me feel a bit cramped, and if working away on the laptop, one's elbows can often hit the wall.

Agree that Vantage XL and Super Diamond are very good on their own but no massive leap from Cirrus. Cirrus has sort of hit the 'sweet spot' for Cathay, so no sense changing unless it's to something which can be considered as markedly better.

sxc

Olympus was the name of the overall project for all three classes, not just the Y seat. Check page 4:

http://downloads.cathaypacific.com/c...pdf/CXW165.pdf

Cambo

Personally, I do value the Cirrus seat significantly above the Vantage XL and Super Diamond, especially for the Cirrus on the 359/351. Both alternatives are more cramped at locations where you want to extend (knee space when sleeping, Vantage XL elbow space, for example) and visually very cluttered.

The Cirrus seat (in CX outlay) needs some improvements though:
- Some styling fresh-up.
- The seat bottom padding is really bad. Compare that with the Vantage XL air cushion as used by MH: Super.
- The table is simply to small to have an off-tray meal presentation: Things start to fall off.
- The connecting space to the seat behind at the window side would need some reengineering to avoid things going backwards.
- The 359/351 remote is still a little clumsy to use in combination with the main screen, insufficient "separation" of what is being shown.
- The "touch" on both remote and main screen might work a little better.

Forget about the "door" hype. Keep the overall relaxed visual appearance of the CX Cirrus version.

The hyped QSuites: Nice, though cramped. It's nice to have a "private" cabin, though would you like to have a private cabin smaller than the size of an office cubicle for 10-15 hours ? Apart from it being only "semi-private", ie not private at all, just blocking your own view. And such a big screen, just in front of your nose, I would not rate that comfortable either, more intrusive, so to say (like the pre-359/351 style screen on the Cirrus).

Cryofern

"Novelty factor" sounds about right; the only other thing was that the food was good enough to be noticed (I generally feel pretty neutral about food), but that's hardly an inherent characteristic of the seat itself, right? Cambo is on the mark with the cramped nature of the seat.

Now that J on CX has the mattress pads, I think that it (Cirrus) is more comfortable overall.

I've been in Super Diamond too but I don't remember much of it because it's not too much different from Cirrus (maybe that's the point?) - mostly that the cabin looks better standing around in the aisle, and the position of the screen and table giving a more intruded-upon/cramped feeling.

I like the idea of Apex Suites (forward facing, direct aisle access for every seat even though there are two columns of seats between aisle and window, not too much issue with awkward footwells resulting from the nature of the overlap... basically old-school BA Club World but improved), but I haven't tried it, so I can't say for sure.

cx4ever

I don't like how the Apex aisle seats are incredibly less private than the window seats (so only 2 out of 6 seats per row are good). Also seems like a worse use of space due to the extra space for direct aisle access for the window passengers.

I know this is off-topic, but shouldn't we know more about the new KA regional J other than the fact that it's "probably a recliner", esp. considering the seat would be flying very soon without COVID. I guess CX is doing pretty well with keeping their secrets this time round.

EDIT: Also feel like there is an inherent risk with launching rear-facing J class seats like the QSuite and Etihad J. It's not a big deal to me but this probably came up when discussing the direction of the new J – is there a general perceived notion that rear-facing seats are worse?