DEVALUATION! - No more stopover for one way tickets effective 1 April 2020
Mar 19, 2020, 4:07 am
#16
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
Currently we save miles by booking a multi-sector itinerary with mixed cabins. For example, LHR-HKG in First then HKD-IAD in Economy (to be cancelled after the first flight and get a tax refund without charge). Your flight you really want to fly costs 81,800 miles instead of 100,000 miles.
However, the agent told me that from 1 April 2020, only transfer is allowed. You can still book a two-sector itinerary but if you finally do not take the second sector, you may have baggage issue. In most of the cases, we have to sacrifice the second sector and cannot enjoy two trips in a one-way ticket.
Also, it is a kind of devaluation when stopover is not allowed.
However, the agent told me that from 1 April 2020, only transfer is allowed. You can still book a two-sector itinerary but if you finally do not take the second sector, you may have baggage issue. In most of the cases, we have to sacrifice the second sector and cannot enjoy two trips in a one-way ticket.
Also, it is a kind of devaluation when stopover is not allowed.
Your mixed cabin (LHR-(F)HKG-(Y)IAD) can still be played - see how to generate a short-check on revenue tickets.
Mar 19, 2020, 4:14 am
#17
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
What will the net result be? Obviously the OP's itinerary (which I had never even thought of before), is both clever but clearly a loophole. I'm sure you guys who are pros at this know about this. But how many people are using this situation for legit itineraries i.e. not just mostly exploiting a loophole?
If it's mostly against people playing the arbitrage game, then I'm all for it and the thread title is a bit self-serving - that's a valuation increase for people like me, who accumulate a bunch of miles and indeed like to use them, but don't go to the gaming lengths others do. Inevitably people / companies who drive the dump trucks through the loopholes make the program less valuable for the rest of us. It's quite zero sum.
But I was under the impression this is a new way to game CX award availability? For example, CX doesn't release one-way F Class HKG-LHR, but will release one-way LHR-HKG-XXX (IAD in the OP's case) or wherever. Am I mistaken? I've never done this but I've seen on here and elsewhere this is the new way to game the CX system.
I should add, CX setup this system to try and screw over us captive HK-based people. I'm definitely not out to blame the people taking advantage, the ultimate blame lies with CX and their idiotic mindset/system where they tried to screw us HK-based pax over again by introducing superior award inventory for connecting flights. And then, the bloggers megaphoned it and now we have everyone setting up itineraries like LHR-HKG-IAD, or as the poster above me amusingly mentions, YVR-HKG-SEA.
The locals here can play fake one-way too. Tho HKG does not lend itself to as many combinations HKG-KIX-TPE also. North Americans (YVR-HKG-SEA) and Europeans (LHR-HKG-CDG) had the best run of these opportunities while it lasted.
If we are talking about the OP's title "devaluing", that word specifically, for me as someone who is mostly captive to HK and wouldn't book such a weird itinerary anyway, cutting off the demand for the folks gaming the system is a "win" and definitely not a devaluation at all, if they're stopping excess demand that I'm competing with for F seats.
Of course, the best win would just be if CX would treat to ex-HKG or to HKG one-way award inventory the same as connecting tix. Then those of us in Hong Kong could benefit and the other passengers wouldn't have to setup absurd itineraries, and they could still possibly get seats.
Last edited by percysmith; Mar 19, 2020 at 9:35 pm
Mar 19, 2020, 4:46 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 88
This is from the mouth of MPO hotline agent. Told me unintentionally.
Mar 19, 2020, 4:53 am
#20
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TPE / HSZ
Programs: CX GO (=SPH), IHG Diamond Amb, Hertz 5*, Accor, Hilton, National
Posts: 6,437
For the one-way Flight Award (except the oneworld Multi-carrier Awards and HK Express), a maximum of 2 sectors are allowed, with only 1 stopover or 1 transfer. If the first sector origin airport and the last sector destination airport are located in different cities, but all sectors fall within the same country/region, this itinerary is still treated as a one-way Flight Award. On the other hand, the first sector origin airport and the last sector destination airport are located in different cities but within the same country/region and also the first sector destination airport is located in different country/region, this itinerary is not treated as one-way Flight Award; *for example JFK-DFW-LAX can be treated as one-way while JFK-LHR-IAD cannot be treated as one-way.
Mar 19, 2020, 4:55 am
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 88
Sometimes, connecting flight HKD-IAD may not be available, so allowing stopover will be helpful.
Mar 19, 2020, 5:00 am
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 88
You can fly it under 60K AM for J of LHR-HKG under the current rule by adding a Y sector HKG-BKK for example. A loophole - Yes.
Mar 19, 2020, 5:00 am
#23
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
Actually my example is talking about mixed cabins booking. If you redeem LHR-HKG in F, it costs 100,000 miles. If you add HKG-IAD in Y as the second sector, the miles required become 81,800 miles. I save 18,200 miles to redeem the F flight I want.
Sometimes, connecting flight HKD-IAD may not be available, so allowing stopover will be helpful.
Sometimes, connecting flight HKD-IAD may not be available, so allowing stopover will be helpful.
my question is how the agents let these through.
Last edited by freed0m; Mar 19, 2020 at 5:11 am
Mar 19, 2020, 5:10 am
#24
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
I don't think AM can just implement without an official change of the T&C. https://www.asiamiles.com/en/terms-a...onditions.html reads,
Mar 19, 2020, 10:27 am
#25
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,203
What will the net result be? Obviously the OP's itinerary (which I had never even thought of before), is both clever but clearly a loophole. I'm sure you guys who are pros at this know about this. But how many people are using this situation for legit itineraries i.e. not just mostly exploiting a loophole?
If it's mostly against people playing the arbitrage game, then I'm all for it and the thread title is a bit self-serving - that's a valuation increase for people like me, who accumulate a bunch of miles and indeed like to use them, but don't go to the gaming lengths others do. Inevitably people / companies who drive the dump trucks through the loopholes make the program less valuable for the rest of us. It's quite zero sum.
If it's mostly against people playing the arbitrage game, then I'm all for it and the thread title is a bit self-serving - that's a valuation increase for people like me, who accumulate a bunch of miles and indeed like to use them, but don't go to the gaming lengths others do. Inevitably people / companies who drive the dump trucks through the loopholes make the program less valuable for the rest of us. It's quite zero sum.
Mar 19, 2020, 9:10 pm
#27
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: YVR
Posts: 105
To be honest, this is the last straw for me. As a Canadian resident, it is extremely hard to accumulate Asia Miles here. The partnership with Petro-Canada ended a few years ago, so there is no local retail partners anymore. Amex MR points converts to AM as 1:0.75, verses 1:1 to BA and Aeroplan. (HSBC conversion rate sucks so I am not gonna mention it). The only thing we got is the RBC co-branded credit card with a jaw-dropping $6,000 CAD MSR to get the bonus (10,000) and without any significant bonus categories (If you count the 1.25x foreign spend as a bonus category WITH foreign transaction fee).
Foe the devaluation that happened in 2018, it affected me the most was the increase of miles for PEY to J upgrade redemption (Increased from 15,000 to 28,000 one way for HKG>YVR). With this new stopover rules, it essentially kills the YVR>HKG>SEA redemption for me.
J redemption:
YVR>HKG>SEA 85,000
YVR>HKG 140,000 (round trip)
#Bonyoyed (Oops, wrong program.)
Foe the devaluation that happened in 2018, it affected me the most was the increase of miles for PEY to J upgrade redemption (Increased from 15,000 to 28,000 one way for HKG>YVR). With this new stopover rules, it essentially kills the YVR>HKG>SEA redemption for me.
J redemption:
YVR>HKG>SEA 85,000
YVR>HKG 140,000 (round trip)
#Bonyoyed (Oops, wrong program.)
Mar 19, 2020, 9:24 pm
#28
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: Lowly CX & IHG
Posts: 382
So 24hrs just makes it more difficult but not completely kill "save miles using mixed cabin" (shorter period for finding a second flight) but the fake one-ways are very dead.
Also costs more for multi-city trips like HKG-LHR, visiting UK for a few days then continuing on another European country.
Also costs more for multi-city trips like HKG-LHR, visiting UK for a few days then continuing on another European country.
Mar 19, 2020, 9:30 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
So 24hrs just makes it more difficult but not completely kill "save miles using mixed cabin" (shorter period for finding a second flight) but the fake one-ways are very dead.
Also costs more for multi-city trips like HKG-LHR, visiting UK for a few days then continuing on another European country.
Also costs more for multi-city trips like HKG-LHR, visiting UK for a few days then continuing on another European country.
Just now have to use oneworld multi-carrier instead, with more miles, more carriers and more routes allowed, which is much fairer than one-way CX/Partner awards
YVR-HKG-SEA costs more than 100K miles, rather than max 85K miles.
Mar 19, 2020, 9:30 pm
#30
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800