Permanent discontinuation of short haul First Class service (ex. PEK and HND)
Jun 17, 2019, 10:35 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
Permanent discontinuation of short haul First Class service (ex. PEK and HND)
As per an internal memo effective this week onwards, there will be no more F services (permanently) to all regional ports with the exception of PEK and HND.
Ie all other stations even with a 4-class 77W operating will only see 'Flub' services (ie F seating and J service).
This is in light of a change in the service flow - from now on in these situations, the 6 lucky souls in 'F' will no longer have their 2 dedicated crew. The trolleys and carts will start from row 1 and all 59 pax will share 7 crew together throughout the service.
Ie all other stations even with a 4-class 77W operating will only see 'Flub' services (ie F seating and J service).
This is in light of a change in the service flow - from now on in these situations, the 6 lucky souls in 'F' will no longer have their 2 dedicated crew. The trolleys and carts will start from row 1 and all 59 pax will share 7 crew together throughout the service.
Jun 17, 2019, 5:22 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Jun 17, 2019, 7:17 pm
#7
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,169
Mixed feelings..
One the one hand, this makes things more ‘disciplined’ (without any operational effort on CX’s part- leading to fewer cases of disappointment etc.)
I guess most regional F bookings would only be a part of a long haul journey, so any rebookings wouldn’t bring much by way of compensation- expect atleast a few disappointed folks (unlike last minute downgrades, which bring a chump change by way of cash compensation, iirc).
On the the other, never good to have a smaller F footprint.
What they really need is to make their regional operations more predictable- esp the regional vs long haul J seat swaps.
One the one hand, this makes things more ‘disciplined’ (without any operational effort on CX’s part- leading to fewer cases of disappointment etc.)
I guess most regional F bookings would only be a part of a long haul journey, so any rebookings wouldn’t bring much by way of compensation- expect atleast a few disappointed folks (unlike last minute downgrades, which bring a chump change by way of cash compensation, iirc).
On the the other, never good to have a smaller F footprint.
What they really need is to make their regional operations more predictable- esp the regional vs long haul J seat swaps.
Jun 17, 2019, 7:48 pm
#8
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: HKG
Programs: BA(GGL) QF LTS CX AM, Hilton Diamond, PPL(A)
Posts: 1,654
i think its a sensible move given the large amounts of complaints about regional aircraft swaps. i do not htink it is practical to "guarantee" a particular aircraft type for their regional route, given the LH birds are rotated into regional service before flying off the following morning.
manage expectations, and reward your J customers with that F seating once in a while.
manage expectations, and reward your J customers with that F seating once in a while.
Jun 17, 2019, 8:06 pm
#9
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,169
Even though a part of SQ’s long haul fleet (the ULRs) is practically ‘separate’, they do a pretty good job on predictability on their regional rotations, and, the gap between their long and short haul products is a lot smaller than CX’s..
I’m certain that the operational flexibility helps the CX bottom line..but at what ‘cost’? (Customer annoyance leading to changes in purchasing behaviour- case in point: QRC3288 on a relatively higher yielding HKG-SIN).
But, I digress..
I’m certain that the operational flexibility helps the CX bottom line..but at what ‘cost’? (Customer annoyance leading to changes in purchasing behaviour- case in point: QRC3288 on a relatively higher yielding HKG-SIN).
But, I digress..
Jun 17, 2019, 8:40 pm
#11
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
i think its a sensible move given the large amounts of complaints about regional aircraft swaps. i do not htink it is practical to "guarantee" a particular aircraft type for their regional route, given the LH birds are rotated into regional service before flying off the following morning.
manage expectations, and reward your J customers with that F seating once in a while.
manage expectations, and reward your J customers with that F seating once in a while.
Even though a part of SQ’s long haul fleet (the ULRs) is practically ‘separate’, they do a pretty good job on predictability on their regional rotations, and, the gap between their long and short haul products is a lot smaller than CX’s..
I’m certain that the operational flexibility helps the CX bottom line..but at what ‘cost’? (Customer annoyance leading to changes in purchasing behaviour- case in point: QRC3288 on a relatively higher yielding HKG-SIN).
I’m certain that the operational flexibility helps the CX bottom line..but at what ‘cost’? (Customer annoyance leading to changes in purchasing behaviour- case in point: QRC3288 on a relatively higher yielding HKG-SIN).
I'm sad to see F go, but I think it's the right move for routes where CX plays equipment merry go round but has occasionally sold F. TPE, MNL, CGK, BKK, SGN, SIN, etc. CX has been dreadful for years making F predictable on those routes. And, this gives me even more confidence about PEK!
Local O&D cash demand that might exist if F class was predictable / bankable isn't dumb enough to actually pay for it on those regional routes, knowing how CX operates. So CX ended up up with a business made entirely of a.) connecting cash F tickets, b.) connecting award F tickets, mostly partner bookers it seems, c.) short-haul award bookers. None of it is very high-yielding. "b" and "c" is not even a business on its own. "a" must've pissed so many people off I think it's probably better to set expectations straight. Meanwhile, just based on what I see here you see howls of protests and compensation demands from miffed award bookers which must've made this "business" of short-haul F an absolute nightmare. Fwiw, reading around here award bookers seem to be a very tough group of customers and, at least from the slice I read on here, prone to frequent compensation demands and are definitely more-demanding / aggressive than many of my friends who usually pay for their CX F flights in cash.
As for product predictability, the fact CX doesn't guarantee the product to SIN is precisely why I fly SQ on this route exclusively now. Fwiw. I think it's a positive step for CX to at least admit they're not offering F to SIN anymore, instead of randomly rostering it (and swapping it away) here and there. But for people like me who pay our own way, and are familiar enough with CX to know regional J is a massive step down from a pod to say nothing of CX's dreadful food, a downgrade is an insult to injury. Fortunately I have a choice and a way to express my preference...by flying SQ.
I'll add, SQ F isn't that much more expensive than full fare CX J. CX J runs between 17-24k HKD, whereas SQ F is about 26-27k. If your company is paying for you then you might be more ambivalent, but it's a joke when you're paying out of your own pocket. Worst case scenario, imagine paying 24k+ HKD, expecting 35G with the pod and wifi, and then you get swapped to 773Z J class and are sitting in a middle seat. I've never had all those happen at once but I've had a combination of them. No thank you and this doesn't happen on SQ on the HKG route. Or, you can pay a few k more HKD and fly SQ F. It's really not a question!
Jun 18, 2019, 3:31 am
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,545
This is bad news for me (buyer of F tickets exEU to BKK or SIN).
The price won't change. I knew that I would have a chance to be downgraded to J, but still had a good chance to have F.
It is not so much the hard product that I miss. A LH J seat is quite fine for a 4 hr flight. But a superb dining experience with Krug, Beychevelle, ...
The price won't change. I knew that I would have a chance to be downgraded to J, but still had a good chance to have F.
It is not so much the hard product that I miss. A LH J seat is quite fine for a 4 hr flight. But a superb dining experience with Krug, Beychevelle, ...
Jun 19, 2019, 5:02 am
#15
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SYD | HGH
Programs: CX DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,121
So I would assume it is beneficial for most elite pax flying short haul J... F seats and toilets are better.
I do find the service in the "F" cabin with KA different than regular J cabin, i.e. FA will ask for food choices and bring it to your table, rather than you to choose from a trolley. Haven't tried those F cabin J service with CX yet, however with only 2 rows of seats, I would assume food to be brought to table rather than on a trolley.
I do find the service in the "F" cabin with KA different than regular J cabin, i.e. FA will ask for food choices and bring it to your table, rather than you to choose from a trolley. Haven't tried those F cabin J service with CX yet, however with only 2 rows of seats, I would assume food to be brought to table rather than on a trolley.