Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Cathay Pacific | Marco Polo Club
Reload this Page >

Permanent discontinuation of short haul First Class service (ex. PEK and HND)

Permanent discontinuation of short haul First Class service (ex. PEK and HND)

Reply

Old Jun 17, 19, 10:35 am
  #1  
Original Poster
Hyatt Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA ExPlat, BAEC Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, Starriott Gold, GE
Posts: 2,777
Permanent discontinuation of short haul First Class service (ex. PEK and HND)

As per an internal memo effective this week onwards, there will be no more F services (permanently) to all regional ports with the exception of PEK and HND.

Ie all other stations even with a 4-class 77W operating will only see 'Flub' services (ie F seating and J service).

This is in light of a change in the service flow - from now on in these situations, the 6 lucky souls in 'F' will no longer have their 2 dedicated crew. The trolleys and carts will start from row 1 and all 59 pax will share 7 crew together throughout the service.
G-CIVC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 2:22 pm
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 10,860
Yet another nail in the coffin of a once great airline!
G-CIVC and Unterwegs like this.
christep is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 2:53 pm
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 13,874
Many airlines all over the world are(have) reduced first class flights.
For some airlines current long haul business class is not a lot different to what first class was about a decade ago.
Mwenenzi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 4:54 pm
  #4  
Uli
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: FRA
Posts: 2,165
Originally Posted by christep View Post
Yet another nail in the coffin of a once great airline!
Totally true! What a nightmare.
royng likes this.
Uli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 5:22 pm
  #5  
sxc
Moderator, Cathay Pacific
Accor Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, BAEC Gold, QF Gold, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 9,593
Originally Posted by christep View Post
Yet another nail in the coffin of a once great airline!
For short haul flights I’m happier to be paying J with a chance to sit in F.

This is also going to solve the problem of buying F but getting an aircraft swap.
sxc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 6:12 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 101
Its a good move to manage expectations. Not many pay for F on short hauls anyways.. i would be more than happy to get a seat upfront..
prw555 likes this.
Microtat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 7:17 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 1,896
Mixed feelings..
One the one hand, this makes things more ‘disciplined’ (without any operational effort on CX’s part- leading to fewer cases of disappointment etc.)
I guess most regional F bookings would only be a part of a long haul journey, so any rebookings wouldn’t bring much by way of compensation- expect atleast a few disappointed folks (unlike last minute downgrades, which bring a chump change by way of cash compensation, iirc).

On the the other, never good to have a smaller F footprint.

What they really need is to make their regional operations more predictable- esp the regional vs long haul J seat swaps.
thomas164, TomYoung and QRC3288 like this.
jagmeets is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 7:48 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: HKG
Programs: BA(GGL) QF LTS CX AM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,596
i think its a sensible move given the large amounts of complaints about regional aircraft swaps. i do not htink it is practical to "guarantee" a particular aircraft type for their regional route, given the LH birds are rotated into regional service before flying off the following morning.

manage expectations, and reward your J customers with that F seating once in a while.
ermen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 8:06 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 1,896
Even though a part of SQ’s long haul fleet (the ULRs) is practically ‘separate’, they do a pretty good job on predictability on their regional rotations, and, the gap between their long and short haul products is a lot smaller than CX’s..

I’m certain that the operational flexibility helps the CX bottom line..but at what ‘cost’? (Customer annoyance leading to changes in purchasing behaviour- case in point: QRC3288 on a relatively higher yielding HKG-SIN).

But, I digress..
jagmeets is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 8:35 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 252
The flights are so short. What's more to enjoy in F seats for regional flight?

It is certainly not better than bed in your home.
ijgordon and infinitium like this.
freed0m is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 8:40 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,469
Originally Posted by ermen View Post
i think its a sensible move given the large amounts of complaints about regional aircraft swaps. i do not htink it is practical to "guarantee" a particular aircraft type for their regional route, given the LH birds are rotated into regional service before flying off the following morning.

manage expectations, and reward your J customers with that F seating once in a while.
Originally Posted by jagmeets View Post
Even though a part of SQ’s long haul fleet (the ULRs) is practically ‘separate’, they do a pretty good job on predictability on their regional rotations, and, the gap between their long and short haul products is a lot smaller than CX’s..

I’m certain that the operational flexibility helps the CX bottom line..but at what ‘cost’? (Customer annoyance leading to changes in purchasing behaviour- case in point: QRC3288 on a relatively higher yielding HKG-SIN).




I'm sad to see F go, but I think it's the right move for routes where CX plays equipment merry go round but has occasionally sold F. TPE, MNL, CGK, BKK, SGN, SIN, etc. CX has been dreadful for years making F predictable on those routes. And, this gives me even more confidence about PEK!

Local O&D cash demand that might exist if F class was predictable / bankable isn't dumb enough to actually pay for it on those regional routes, knowing how CX operates. So CX ended up up with a business made entirely of a.) connecting cash F tickets, b.) connecting award F tickets, mostly partner bookers it seems, c.) short-haul award bookers. None of it is very high-yielding. "b" and "c" is not even a business on its own. "a" must've pissed so many people off I think it's probably better to set expectations straight. Meanwhile, just based on what I see here you see howls of protests and compensation demands from miffed award bookers which must've made this "business" of short-haul F an absolute nightmare. Fwiw, reading around here award bookers seem to be a very tough group of customers and, at least from the slice I read on here, prone to frequent compensation demands and are definitely more-demanding / aggressive than many of my friends who usually pay for their CX F flights in cash.

As for product predictability, the fact CX doesn't guarantee the product to SIN is precisely why I fly SQ on this route exclusively now. Fwiw. I think it's a positive step for CX to at least admit they're not offering F to SIN anymore, instead of randomly rostering it (and swapping it away) here and there. But for people like me who pay our own way, and are familiar enough with CX to know regional J is a massive step down from a pod to say nothing of CX's dreadful food, a downgrade is an insult to injury. Fortunately I have a choice and a way to express my preference...by flying SQ.

I'll add, SQ F isn't that much more expensive than full fare CX J. CX J runs between 17-24k HKD, whereas SQ F is about 26-27k. If your company is paying for you then you might be more ambivalent, but it's a joke when you're paying out of your own pocket. Worst case scenario, imagine paying 24k+ HKD, expecting 35G with the pod and wifi, and then you get swapped to 773Z J class and are sitting in a middle seat. I've never had all those happen at once but I've had a combination of them. No thank you and this doesn't happen on SQ on the HKG route. Or, you can pay a few k more HKD and fly SQ F. It's really not a question!
QRC3288 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 11:07 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,090
Move Beyond First Class
royng likes this.
FlyPointyEnd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 19, 11:28 pm
  #13  
sxc
Moderator, Cathay Pacific
Accor Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, BAEC Gold, QF Gold, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 9,593
So for connecting flights to places like BKK which had F, Will a F ticket now cost less? (My guess is no)
sxc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 19, 3:31 am
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 11,262
This is bad news for me (buyer of F tickets exEU to BKK or SIN).
The price won't change. I knew that I would have a chance to be downgraded to J, but still had a good chance to have F.
It is not so much the hard product that I miss. A LH J seat is quite fine for a 4 hr flight. But a superb dining experience with Krug, Beychevelle, ...
brunos is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 19, 19, 5:02 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SYD | HGH
Programs: CX DM, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,909
So I would assume it is beneficial for most elite pax flying short haul J... F seats and toilets are better.

I do find the service in the "F" cabin with KA different than regular J cabin, i.e. FA will ask for food choices and bring it to your table, rather than you to choose from a trolley. Haven't tried those F cabin J service with CX yet, however with only 2 rows of seats, I would assume food to be brought to table rather than on a trolley.
Ausriver is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread