Cambo

LCC is not only about "pay for what you use", but also a smart balance to leave out everything you not really need to operate an airline. The moment you start to build in these "specialties", you need a back office to handle these things at both the organizational level as well as the practical implementation itself. And, don't forget, for each "function", you'll need around 3 employees to fulfill the role 24/7, year round. That'll give a huge cost increase. When these things are "outsourced" to CX/KA, it still adds the corresponding costs, consider an LCC having to live with the expensive daily choices of a major airline, pffffff.

LCC's are LCC's because they omit all these extra bells and whistles. And those limited bells and whistles available are unavoidable, though highly standardized, where the costs roughly do go linear with the scale of use.

Let alone the obligations around IROPS. The airline needs an organization to be able to work instantly on these things. CX/KA do have this, LCC's don't.

kaka

Jackolee

Cambo

Neither Scoot nor Flydubai are true LCC's like AirAsia or the many Indonesian ones, both do cater for some kind of "Business class", which is, etc.

Regarding Scoot, did you ever check out the limitations, when connecting with SQ ? You get common check-in on single tickets, luggage check-through on a kind of code-share (though pay for the luggage), and in case of IROPS a rebooking. Further, free food stamps (so not a guaranteed meal !), a free blanket and free seat selection. That's it.
You won't get these advantages on non-single tickets bookings, so you can assume, your Scoot leg is more expensive, when combined with an SQ ticket,

Would this work out positive ? Sure, but your ticket price is (probably significantly) higher than the normal Scoot LCC point-to-point pricing and the service level at Scoot would be disappointing when compared to the main airline, especially for elites....... It's more an operation that SQ does buy you a seat with goodies on a Scoot airplane at elevated pricing and organizes some things, Scoot doesn't normally offer.

Because Scoot seems to be a successful operation, your bad luck chances to encounter the normal LCC issues is low.

Can CX do something similar: Sure, why not, as long as the LCC operations are not "integrated" in the CX/KA operations.

See:
https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/u...irlines/scoot/

peasant

So the consensus (and I agree) is that this would be a good idea.

Many routes (anything under 2-3 hours) where I just don't want or need the frills of a KA or CX. By CX buying UO, they can copy SQ/ LH/ QF and rationalise routes around product - though there will be some markets where having both makes sense (CX/KA for connection flights, UO for local traffic). Win/ win for everybody (unless CX buys UO just to strangle it) Accor have been doing this for years (sofitel & ibis owned by same group)

Jackolee

I think our views may not be different in terms of the feasibility. Possible mechanism for transit fellows has been discussed and won't repeat.
Our difference is only from the perspectives of elites (DM, DM+ or elites from partners) and 'non-elites' (GO or below). As mentioned, for top elites, of course there're differences. For me as GO travelling short-hauls from HK, KA service in Y now is marginally nothing better than UO, let alone the cost difference.

sxc

yohy

Could be good news if they target them to leisure routes and raise the operating and safety standards

Might be best to just absorb them into KA rather than trying to sort out their messes in management and flight ops.

Effectively keep the slots and the aircraft leases and the brand but ditch everything else...

KACommuter

I think it's more likely to be the other way round. Inject KA's "leisure heavy" flights into UO, leave the "connection heavy" ones at KA so that there is seamlessness CX. That way Cathay lowers its overall cost base for the low yield flights in its network without hurting their brand beyond where they are.

helvetic

Exactly my fear, which is why I'm against this merger.

Jackolee

feh

Well, from CX's perspective they saw out the challenge from O8 and managed to resist JetStar coming in.

Of course, re-acquired KA also.

I don't think CX has much of a choice, other than to seek to prevent someone else buying UO (and in due course HX?), in order to keep a hold on AOC's

I'd agree that should the acquisition go ahead, there'd be a shuffling of KA & UO metal, between leisure-heavy and business-connection routes, though not sure how much scope for change there actually is? Also when bearing in mind that there could be some price-focussed competition from the other end of some of those services.

On the other hand, what MIGHT happen would be for UO to concentrate on the "race to the bottom", whilst KA & CX refocus on being premium carriers. (Not sure how likely this would be though - more probably just wishful thinking)

Aus106080

what do you worry about for that?

simonl

seems this is a final puzzle for CX group.

tehbing

Here we go...