Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Cathay Pacific | Marco Polo Club
Reload this Page >

Official announcement for NO Lounge access if you score complimentary upgrades

Official announcement for NO Lounge access if you score complimentary upgrades

Reply

Old Dec 4, 18, 12:01 am
  #61  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Taiwan
Programs: IHG Plat Ambassador, Marriott Platinum Premier, Hilton Gold, AccorHotels Silver, oneworld Sapphire
Posts: 1,079
Originally Posted by CX HK View Post
but I don't receive the J class amount of miles and club points
Points are never tied to the class of service, only to the class of booking. On award bookings no points are given. Many promo rates would have 0 points too. It's absolutely possible that full economy fare would give you more points than promo business fare.
barracuda93 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 3:10 am
  #62  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Programs: Marco Polo, BA Executive club, SPG, Hyatt,
Posts: 63
After reading up, I am going to support what Barracuda93 on what he said, with a slight twist.

While I don't think the person getting the op-up should be "entitled" to lounge access, CX would be stupid not to offer to that person. That is in fact a great way to introduce that person (presumably somebody with some status or potential) the full experience of business class. Maybe he can't/won't afford it now, but who knows? Maybe he will be a more loyal customer after this experience?

And honestly, I don't buy into the revenue management argument of it. First of all lounge is mostly fixed cost with minimum incremental cost for each passenger. The second thing is that capacities should have been carefully calculated with approximate yields (so hypothetically, a flight may have, say, 50-60% of the "enabled" (FF/Business ticket) passengers using the lounge). That should be the benchmark and an extra business class passenger per flight at any given time (or even 3) should not cost that much. Thirdly, if even the lounge is figured into the cost of a ticket, then it is basically the fault of revenue management and they really should ensure that business tickets are all ticket up (or now that they could have offer upgrade with money, similar to JAL domestic) to ensure that all business class are taken up. If as a last resort, an upgrade has to be made such that it does not generate the kind of revenue they would have estimated, then the cost of entrance to a lounge should be something to add-on, reminding them to do it better.

So actually, if you asked me if the person has the "right" to get in, I'd say no. But the fact that CX showed its fragile ways as a premium carrier, is also nothing to be proud of.
barracuda93 and Nile_US like this.
HKUSFLYER is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 3:23 am
  #63  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,063
If you want to fly F or J, pay for it...anyone who gets in for free as an opup shouldn't expect more that what they paid for.

I have zero sympathy for opup passengers who get served EY meals in J (if there's none left) it's enough that they get to sit in a more comfortable seat so they shouldn't even complain that they got EY meals (besides, they are basically the same anyway).
chongcao likes this.
FlyPointyEnd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 3:29 am
  #64  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,063
Originally Posted by barracuda93 View Post
My point is Ė avoid pissing off people unnecessarily by showing they do not deserve to get a proper product (and we don't even have to argue if they actually "deserve" it). Ultimately for business reasons, we can forget ethics here.
Because as an opup they don't really deserve it. I'd feel bad if I paid full J for my ticket yet someone who paid 1/10 of my ticket get the same because he got opup at the gate.
FlyPointyEnd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 8:37 am
  #65  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Taiwan
Programs: IHG Plat Ambassador, Marriott Platinum Premier, Hilton Gold, AccorHotels Silver, oneworld Sapphire
Posts: 1,079
Originally Posted by FlyPointyEnd View Post
Because as an opup they don't really deserve it. I'd feel bad if I paid full J for my ticket yet someone who paid 1/10 of my ticket get the same because he got opup at the gate.
Well, if you wish to have an extra pain in your life, please. There is always someone who paid less than you for the same product.
Nile_US likes this.
barracuda93 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 11:36 am
  #66  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: AA Plat, MPC Silver, IHG Platinum
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by FlyPointyEnd View Post
Because as an opup they don't really deserve it. I'd feel bad if I paid full J for my ticket yet someone who paid 1/10 of my ticket get the same because he got opup at the gate.
LOL! Well, they paid significantly less and still are sitting in a seat that you paid full for. Why are you not complaining at the whole op-up strategy then?
Nile_US is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 4:06 pm
  #67  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,063
Originally Posted by Nile_US View Post
LOL! Well, they paid significantly less and still are sitting in a seat that you paid full for. Why are you not complaining at the whole op-up strategy then?
if I donít complain that they are sitting on a seat I paid full for, then they donít have any right to complain that they were not allowed to use the lounge or got served EY meals.

While I think opups have their benefits specially to those with status, they should consider themselves lucky enough to get upgraded with no status whatsoever so they should be content with having a more comfortable seat in flight and stop yapping about not being able to access the lounge. Thereís no discrimination at all as their original ticket doesnít allow them to access the lounge in the first place.
FlyPointyEnd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 10:26 pm
  #68  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: MPC-Gold, Enrich-Plat
Posts: 626
Originally Posted by Nile_US View Post
LOL! Well, they paid significantly less and still are sitting in a seat that you paid full for. Why are you not complaining at the whole op-up strategy then?
The ticket price meticulously reflects the value of the transportation in specific circumstances (including type of seat) purchased at the moment the ticket is being bought.

Many people do think, the ticket price only reflects the seat itself, though that seat is only a small part of the value of the transportation service. Tickets tend to be cheap, far out. Tickets tend to be expensive on the day itself, etc, since the items reflect "flexibility", reflected in the chance the airline does have opportunities to sell that seat again, if the original occupation gets cancelled. And that is only one relevant aspect.

Up-ops is a method to lower the overall tickets costs by not flying with empty seats and as a result, everybody benefits of op-ups, even those who payed a fortune for the ticket.
Cambo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 18, 8:12 am
  #69  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: AA Plat, MPC Silver, IHG Platinum
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Cambo View Post

Up-ops is a method to lower the overall tickets costs by not flying with empty seats and as a result, everybody benefits of op-ups, even those who payed a fortune for the ticket.
My comment was specific to the comment about "paying high" point above.

@flypointy- I haven't said a thing about whether they have a right or if they deserve. I don't see anyone else making that point here either. I think the most people are saying it makes sense for CX (or any other airline) to allow lounge access. Two distinctly different subjects.
Nile_US is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 18, 6:44 pm
  #70  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,063
Originally Posted by Nile_US View Post
@flypointy- I haven't said a thing about whether they have a right or if they deserve. I don't see anyone else making that point here either. I think the most people are saying it makes sense for CX (or any other airline) to allow lounge access. Two distinctly different subjects.
It doesnít make sense because they werenít entitled to it in the first place. Itís like giving people a hand and they take an arm. People should learn to be grateful that they already got upgraded for the flight.
clubeurope likes this.
FlyPointyEnd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 18, 8:37 pm
  #71  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ/MGA
Programs: AA 1MM Lifetime Gold, WS Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 7,064
Originally Posted by FlyPointyEnd View Post
If you want to fly F or J, pay for it...anyone who gets in for free as an opup shouldn't expect more that what they paid for.
Soon they will go back out of the terminal and demand their fees for luggage that J passengers don't pay for.
As someone who only flies paid J the fewer people not subsidizing the benefits of paid J or F the better.
AA has a new Flagship Lounge in MIA that you have to on a J or F international fare, even if you are an Admirals Club member (which club is next door).
There's more to product differentiation than the seat and the food, so well done CX and AA.
FlyPointyEnd likes this.
ricktoronto is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 18, 2:37 am
  #72  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: E
Programs: MSC (Miles Slut Club); Cunard- Diamond 300+; Princess- Elite 200+; RCCL- D Plus; QF LTG; CA P
Posts: 4,205
People needs to understand that sometimes upgrade happens is due to employee stand by not over sale. Because there are many employee travellers can only fly Y, so as per company policy, Airlines like CX will upgrade some revenue passengers to J or PE and make room for employee and other non-rev. So yes upgrade people in YCL to JCL is a gesture. Please don't abuse it and accept it with grace. And yes once you are upgraded, CX is not obligated to give you JCL service. If you don't like that, other people will do.

Don't force CX to do something dramatic. There are other ways CX can do, for example, have a oversale list with non status passenger and make them wait near check-in counter until all other seats are assigned and then give them the business boarding pass at the last minute. Or, CX will simply upgrade non-rev in future instead give opportunities to revenue passengers and members, at least all non-rev knows they would not go to any lounges. Both way is doable and it will kill of the opportunity of upgrade for members. Is that what you want to see?
chongcao is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 13, 18, 11:37 pm
  #73  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Programs: Marco Polo, BA Executive club, SPG, Hyatt,
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by chongcao View Post
People needs to understand that sometimes upgrade happens is due to employee stand by not over sale. Because there are many employee travellers can only fly Y, so as per company policy, Airlines like CX will upgrade some revenue passengers to J or PE and make room for employee and other non-rev. So yes upgrade people in YCL to JCL is a gesture. Please don't abuse it and accept it with grace. And yes once you are upgraded, CX is not obligated to give you JCL service. If you don't like that, other people will do.

Don't force CX to do something dramatic. There are other ways CX can do, for example, have a oversale list with non status passenger and make them wait near check-in counter until all other seats are assigned and then give them the business boarding pass at the last minute. Or, CX will simply upgrade non-rev in future instead give opportunities to revenue passengers and members, at least all non-rev knows they would not go to any lounges. Both way is doable and it will kill of the opportunity of upgrade for members. Is that what you want to see?
I find that kind of response, if from CX, quite stupid. If they do that, then people are just going to move their travel and businesses elsewhere and there really aren't too many things that CX can take pride in, other than their lounges and onboard services.

These upgrades, as I see it, presents the best way they can do to introduce their premium services to potential high paying customers. What they do not realize, is that by denying that experience, they just fail to make those potentials who could/would pay for business class later on in life become loyal customers.

From my observations and testimonies from friends, CX is already slowly but steadily losing customers to another HK based carrier. If they continue their cuts and their fragile ways, it will become HK's budget airline.
Nile_US likes this.

Last edited by HKUSFLYER; Dec 13, 18 at 11:37 pm Reason: syntax
HKUSFLYER is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 18, 3:15 am
  #74  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: E
Programs: MSC (Miles Slut Club); Cunard- Diamond 300+; Princess- Elite 200+; RCCL- D Plus; QF LTG; CA P
Posts: 4,205
Originally Posted by HKUSFLYER View Post
I find that kind of response, if from CX, quite stupid. If they do that, then people are just going to move their travel and businesses elsewhere and there really aren't too many things that CX can take pride in, other than their lounges and onboard services.

These upgrades, as I see it, presents the best way they can do to introduce their premium services to potential high paying customers. What they do not realize, is that by denying that experience, they just fail to make those potentials who could/would pay for business class later on in life become loyal customers.

From my observations and testimonies from friends, CX is already slowly but steadily losing customers to another HK based carrier. If they continue their cuts and their fragile ways, it will become HK's budget airline.
When CX introduced lots of cut backs during last few years, people stand out and say: CX WILL loosing customers/ I will leave CX.

So in 2018, what happened? They are still with CX. Few left but more come in so CX plane is still full that they have to give op-up as usual.

Also the question for you is, how long the 'other Hong Kong carrier' can survive as its parent company is bleeding money badly. So far the 'other Hong Kong carrier' still could not do its IPO due to its shady financial situation. Its parent company is said to have sold 20 billions US dollar worth of assets to cover its loss. And it is said that it is in discussion with the big mainland carrier about a sale of its core airline assets.

By all means, leave CX and see if CX will shut down tomorrow. You are a free agent.

Ultimately, CX is doing something nice to people who got op-up. It was a gift. Why criticise the people who give you a gift just because the gift giver did not wrap it with gift paper?

If you feel so strongly about it, next time when you receive an op-up, give it to another person who might need it.
chongcao is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 18, 3:32 am
  #75  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Programs: Marco Polo, BA Executive club, SPG, Hyatt,
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by chongcao View Post
When CX introduced lots of cut backs during last few years, people stand out and say: CX WILL loosing customers/ I will leave CX.

So in 2018, what happened? They are still with CX. Few left but more come in so CX plane is still full that they have to give op-up as usual.

Also the question for you is, how long the 'other Hong Kong carrier' can survive as its parent company is bleeding money badly. So far the 'other Hong Kong carrier' still could not do its IPO due to its shady financial situation. Its parent company is said to have sold 20 billions US dollar worth of assets to cover its loss. And it is said that it is in discussion with the big mainland carrier about a sale of its core airline assets.

By all means, leave CX and see if CX will shut down tomorrow. You are a free agent.

Ultimately, CX is doing something nice to people who got op-up. It was a gift. Why criticise the people who give you a gift just because the gift giver did not wrap it with gift paper?

If you feel so strongly about it, next time when you receive an op-up, give it to another person who might need it.
Well, how CX plans to run its business is really, its business. I as a customer however will react accordingly.

Last time I see, the financials aren't too great with CX either. It has some improvements with the oil prices but probably also a little bit of cuts here and there

And the kind of campaign they are having now......Fanfare final countdown? Must be because CX has a kind heart towards its customers.

And I shall reiterate, if they plan to be a budget airline, they will eventually be one. I and a lot of others will still come in for its cheap prices. Will people give CX a chance to try out their business class, if they were given a half-bake treatment of what it was suppose to be? debatable.

And pretty soon, they probably will be giving out a lot more of these half-baked product, because the plan will be filled with fanfare-budget conscious travelers and no business developed on paid business class.........

And I shall continue to get my chance on these...........as an economy/AM exchanged passenger.
HKUSFLYER is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread