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Failing to clear DM1600 bookable upgrades - any experiences?

Failing to clear DM1600 bookable upgrades - any experiences?

Old Nov 16, 18, 8:06 pm
  #1  
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Failing to clear DM1600 bookable upgrades - any experiences?

Recently hit the coveted threshold of 1600 club points - only to fail to clear an upcoming flight from J to F! The strange thing is, I have had very smooth experiences using the GO1000 ones, so waking up to an email saying 'your BUD claim is unsuccessful' is sort of...well, shocking.

A 3888 agent claimed that it was because there is no A class availability for my underlying ticket's POS. This I am very skeptical since I cannot find any verbiage anywhere that BUG/BUD availability is based on A class (I don't think CX ever acknowledged this as well). Case in point, I have cleared into A class using my gold upgrades in the past when there weren't even filed A-class fares for my underlying ticket's POS. So, the denial of letting me use it even when the flight was F1A1 under other POS isn't much different from refusing to release awards for mileage redemption just because they want you to sweat and they can.

Also, over multiple calls the agents were very adamant that I have to request the upgrade myself online, but all four of my GO mid-tier certs were done over the phone without any questions asked. Yeah I know that's on the T&Cs, but what gives?

IMO, this hugely devalues the worthiness of these certs if they can just decide not to let you use them because they don't want to. I was going to (if you guys are interested!) write up a post about how superior MPC DM has been over this year as I approach my 1st renewal compared to my other 2 emerald memberships (AA EXP and BA Gold), but if it turns out that these 4 coveted 1600-certs are at best variably clearable (or not), then this is a HUGE devaluation for CX DM for me personally. Regarding POS limited A-class availability, well firstly this was actually a ticket where I had legit needs to 'ex-'/begin from that outport, and not to arbitrage away from expensive ex-HKG fares. The implication would be huge for outport based DMs anyway - meaning that while they can take advantage of far cheaper D/I-class fares, the likelihood of using these certs if you run up to 1600 is hugely limited too! Even for pretty 'standard' POSs such as USA and UK, A-class inventory can often be lower than F-class (by quite a bit.) What a(n unfair) punishment! Nicolas, are you reading this?

Regarding my own flight, a 3888 agent was kind enough to search +/- a few days/flights to see if there was anything available. However, there seems to be no way to waitlist back onto this flight that I've failed to clear at all...

Addendum: Different agents have different interpretations on how the likelihood of clearing relates to A-class? Another 3888 agent I called in a few days ago, explicitly said 'if you can buy A class online, then we can do the BUD.' Apparently not so now!

Last edited by G-CIVC; Nov 16, 18 at 8:12 pm
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Old Nov 16, 18, 8:18 pm
  #2  
 
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Actually, under the terms of CX bookable upgrades, it does say that J-F bookable upgrades are booked into A. So depending on how you interpret it (of course you may say it is subject to last seat availability but just clears into A for mileage credit purposes), the term itself it there. As a result, it would be somewhat reasonable to require POS A availability because the have to somehow rebook and reissue your ticket into A class.

Itís probably deliberate, but I have found many POS with very different F and A availability, even F6A0, when trying to plan my AONEx ticket...

https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_...e-upgrade.html
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Old Nov 16, 18, 8:21 pm
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Something for the CX DM 2018 Chairman's Drinks happening ?
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Old Nov 16, 18, 8:27 pm
  #4  
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Originally Posted by shd9 View Post
Actually, under the terms of CX bookable upgrades, it does say that J-F bookable upgrades are booked into A. So depending on how you interpret it (of course you may say it is subject to last seat availability but just clears into A for mileage credit purposes), the term itself it there. As a result, it would be somewhat reasonable to require POS A availability because the have to somehow rebook and reissue your ticket into A class.

Itís probably deliberate, but I have found many POS with very different F and A availability, even F6A0, when trying to plan my AONEx ticket...

https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_...e-upgrade.html
Precisely what I tried to say above, after the BUD is processed, one is booked into A class. But I have been booked into A class where an A class fare simply did not exist for my underlying itinerary/POS!
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Old Nov 16, 18, 9:09 pm
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Hey, it is possible for A inventory to exist without there being any A-fares for a sector- to enable, for example, RTW itineraries.
This came up years earlier for me- when tying to use the DM guarantee in V- they couldnít because there was no V fare..ended up doing M or L, I think...but for bookable upgrades, you just need A1 and no A fares having been filed is ok..

But if a flight was A0, and they cleared your last upgrade- then, interesting indeed!

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Last edited by jagmeets; Nov 16, 18 at 9:16 pm
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Old Nov 16, 18, 11:22 pm
  #6  
 
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Is this just one acedcote? I understand the frustration, and it sucks if this is a change and now widespread, but before we draw huge conclusions I do think perhaps more data is needed than one or two attempts....otherwise this is no better than a blogger making typically massive, stereotypical conclusions on what ultimately was an outlier and atypical experience.

I've used 8 of them so far in the new system each without issue. Most recent a few months ago. I *think* at least some of my tickets have been biz tickets that didn't originate in HK. IME they are hands down the best benefits as a Diamond...essentially I can get a nearly-guaranteed F class seat at a J class price. It is a very nice nod to "above and beyond" loyalty (1600 vs 1200) and dollars paid into CX's pocket, particularly with some of the program downgrades in recent years.

So I would be quite disappointed if what G-CIVC​ is describing is a new change, or some far tighter interpretation of the rules, as a way to cut down on people using them and is now widespread. The 4 bookable upgrades as DM are simply a fantastic benefit and to devalue them by playing games would be foolish IMO.

Curious to see how this develops. I'm just reluctant to draw a firm conclusion yet until we get a little more info. Although given G-CIVC '' experience and understanding with these matters, I am definitely concerned to read this.
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Old Nov 17, 18, 3:25 am
  #7  
 
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Can you tell us the route? I find it strange if there is A class available they can't clear it for u.

Maybe submit the request again.
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Old Nov 17, 18, 4:21 am
  #8  
 
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Hopefully not a recent change.

I recently redeemed a couple of BUDs and there was no problem at all doing it over the phone. In fact both times the agent was very helpful
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Old Nov 17, 18, 7:39 pm
  #9  
 
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The BUD would only be successfully cleared if your underlying POS has A fare availability, that is my own understanding too. I have had a similar experience a while back where my HKG - LHR BUD was not cleared because my POS was from TPE and there was simply no A fare selling on the date I was traveling on ex-TPE.

So what I do now before I use the BUD is to check there are indeed A fares selling from wherever POS I purchase my tickets.
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Old Nov 18, 18, 6:15 pm
  #10  
 
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Just read OP post again

G-CIVC, am I correct this was just for a flight that was F1A1? Aka one seat left?

I wouldn't be surprised if the benefit was restricted against taking the last seat for sale.

I thought I recall reading somewhere or hearing something about the benefit was for "A" availability . Although I'm unclear on the POS rules.

Although I've used 8 of them, I don't know if any were that tight. I wouldn't consider it the end of the world if that was the case, where CX doesn't let you snag the last seat in a full cabin. Hopefully your other redemptions go smoother. Based on the other successful posts above, I suspect this was an unlucky situation.
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Old Nov 18, 18, 10:12 pm
  #11  
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I am confirmed now a day earlier, luckily I am slightly flexible this time. But this casts doubt on how successfully I will be able to use these certs in future occasions, more extremely whether I might want to reset at 1200 (actually...will hit that again by April) instead of 1600 and use AM instead. At least you can waitlist with AM upgrades!

I called again to understand what I can do now. According to the 3888 agent this time round, they can facilitate a change provided there is availability for both the underlying (I) and BUD based on POS (A) fare class on my desired date, and as that comes closer to departure, while they are required to say that it will take 3 days with risk of the latter availability being gone in the meanwhile, they can normally process it much quicker (indeed, my BUGs cleared within hours so I don't understand what is the 72 hours fuss about).

Also, I don't think F1A1 is the major issue, it is POS. Because I also asked about another flight that I am thinking of doing a BUD on, it is F1A1 but since I bought the ticket from a high yield POS, they said they can confirm the BUD. I just didn't want to take it yet coz the only seat remaining was 1D.

Although I am disappointed/dismayed and think this is quite unfair, I can understand the rationale between limiting the usability of BUDs based on POS. What CX sucks wrt this tho, is that they should make it clear in their T&Cs so we have less ambiguity and uncertainty to deal with.

Edit: Also, for those that want to use this for R to I instead of I to A, I can imagine this will be even more difficult/tricky given how tight CX is when it comes to outport-POS I-class availability from time to time - pretty sure there's more than often a bigger discrepancy between JCDI over FA in these circumstances. Buyer beware!
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Old Nov 19, 18, 6:46 pm
  #12  
 
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Does CX strictly enforce the 15-day advance window? I'm likely to hit the GO1000 upgrades soon and wondering how easy/difficult it will be to use these.
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Old Nov 20, 18, 8:36 am
  #13  
 
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Originally Posted by G-CIVC View Post
I am confirmed now a day earlier, luckily I am slightly flexible this time. But this casts doubt on how successfully I will be able to use these certs in future occasions, more extremely whether I might want to reset at 1200 (actually...will hit that again by April) instead of 1600 and use AM instead. At least you can waitlist with AM upgrades!

I called again to understand what I can do now. According to the 3888 agent this time round, they can facilitate a change provided there is availability for both the underlying (I) and BUD based on POS (A) fare class on my desired date, and as that comes closer to departure, while they are required to say that it will take 3 days with risk of the latter availability being gone in the meanwhile, they can normally process it much quicker (indeed, my BUGs cleared within hours so I don't understand what is the 72 hours fuss about).

Also, I don't think F1A1 is the major issue, it is POS. Because I also asked about another flight that I am thinking of doing a BUD on, it is F1A1 but since I bought the ticket from a high yield POS, they said they can confirm the BUD. I just didn't want to take it yet coz the only seat remaining was 1D.

Although I am disappointed/dismayed and think this is quite unfair, I can understand the rationale between limiting the usability of BUDs based on POS. What CX sucks wrt this tho, is that they should make it clear in their T&Cs so we have less ambiguity and uncertainty to deal with.

Edit: Also, for those that want to use this for R to I instead of I to A, I can imagine this will be even more difficult/tricky given how tight CX is when it comes to outport-POS I-class availability from time to time - pretty sure there's more than often a bigger discrepancy between JCDI over FA in these circumstances. Buyer beware!
Sorry I really don't understand what you are talking about.

So it is NOT because there is NO fare filed for the routing in A Class that is the issue. The issue is A Class availability due to POS issue based on your underlying I/C/D Class ticket? I think this is ok and fair. Please let me know if I misunderstood this?? I have been using these BUDs ever since they were introduced and never had a problem like you encountered. However, I do make sure there are A class availability before I purchase the I/D/C/J class ticket.

Would you mind to share the routing that you have difficulty?
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Old Jan 3, 19, 11:02 am
  #14  
 
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Originally Posted by midlevels View Post
Does CX strictly enforce the 15-day advance window? I'm likely to hit the GO1000 upgrades soon and wondering how easy/difficult it will be to use these.
I was told you just have to call within the 15 day window, as opposed to requesting it online. Sounds like they are flexible.

Originally Posted by QRC3288 View Post
Is this just one acedcote? I understand the frustration, and it sucks if this is a change and now widespread, but before we draw huge conclusions I do think perhaps more data is needed than one or two attempts....otherwise this is no better than a blogger making typically massive, stereotypical conclusions on what ultimately was an outlier and atypical experience.
Second data point: whilst I am yet to receive a confirmed no, an agent has told me that the underlying POS availability is needed. My flights are F5 A1 HKG-JFK, but I've been informed I'm almost definitely not going to get the upgrade confirmed now, since there is no A availability from HAN.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 9:00 pm
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Originally Posted by AJ747M View Post
since there is no A availability from HAN.
I wonder why that is.... 😞
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