A333 on HKG-CAN! Isn't it insane?!
Oct 27, 2018, 1:16 pm
#46
Join Date: Apr 2012
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HKG-TPE is about 75% the range of a Cessna 172. No wonder CX is losing money.
But if KA were to operate the Q400 on this route, would you?
Those secondary airports get about as many passengers a year as HKG/CAN do in a day.
Comparable? Not in the slightest.
You seem to be forgetting that connecting traffic flows both ways. The aircraft that operates CAN-HKG needs to first operate HKG-CAN. That morning flight leaving HKG around 8am is about as good as it gets for connecting traffic from the US/Europe that arrive around 5:30-7am.
Those secondary airports get about as many passengers a year as HKG/CAN do in a day.
Comparable? Not in the slightest.
You seem to be forgetting that connecting traffic flows both ways. The aircraft that operates CAN-HKG needs to first operate HKG-CAN. That morning flight leaving HKG around 8am is about as good as it gets for connecting traffic from the US/Europe that arrive around 5:30-7am.
Oct 27, 2018, 5:02 pm
#47
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 178
This post is obviously started by someone who has no knowledge of the Asian aviation market and refused to do a any basic research.
There are more people living in Asia than the rest of the world combine. Hence the capacity is justified. It’s like saying my infant drinks 8oz of milk for breakfast why does an adult eat so much instead?
The query has has been answered in full multiple times so take it or leave it, we’re going round the circle.
There are more people living in Asia than the rest of the world combine. Hence the capacity is justified. It’s like saying my infant drinks 8oz of milk for breakfast why does an adult eat so much instead?
The query has has been answered in full multiple times so take it or leave it, we’re going round the circle.
Oct 27, 2018, 7:57 pm
#48
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 107
ok but it is flyable does not equal to it has to be fly in this way? i only took HKG-CAN flight once, 320 all-Y to CAN and 333 back, it was indeed very full
Another question would be if u take reposition yourself to CAN to enjoy the price difference, why would people around CAN area take the high speed rail to fly from HK on a more expensive ticket? Isn’t it a good strategy to attract more passengers? Not everyone is travelling on business trip and I am pretty sure that there is a group of customers out there willing to sacrifice a ‘working day’ over thousands of dollars?
i am not an aviation expert but I think timing of these two flights are good enough to make them sustainable. And i wonder, say 6 flights with 320 would be more profitable than 1 333 and 1 320? They need to get the time slot, pay more people for ground handling, sacrifice other destinations if they are not getting more aircraft OR to get more aircraft? There must be more to think about but sorry I am not aviation expert - at least not expert as many of others in this thread.
Another question would be if u take reposition yourself to CAN to enjoy the price difference, why would people around CAN area take the high speed rail to fly from HK on a more expensive ticket? Isn’t it a good strategy to attract more passengers? Not everyone is travelling on business trip and I am pretty sure that there is a group of customers out there willing to sacrifice a ‘working day’ over thousands of dollars?
i am not an aviation expert but I think timing of these two flights are good enough to make them sustainable. And i wonder, say 6 flights with 320 would be more profitable than 1 333 and 1 320? They need to get the time slot, pay more people for ground handling, sacrifice other destinations if they are not getting more aircraft OR to get more aircraft? There must be more to think about but sorry I am not aviation expert - at least not expert as many of others in this thread.
Last edited by xuukgo; Oct 27, 2018 at 8:06 pm
Oct 27, 2018, 10:15 pm
#49
Join Date: Mar 2013
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I flew this route back in April/May (Roundtrip HKG-CAN); Both legs were completely full, most pax were connecting rather than originating/terminating in HKG. In fact one of the flights was scheduled to be operated by a KA A321 but was switched a couple weeks before the flight to accommodate the demand.
Great way to get between the 2 cities, and use the CX lounges in HKG if flying J or have status. Also a steal if you use Avios.
Great way to get between the 2 cities, and use the CX lounges in HKG if flying J or have status. Also a steal if you use Avios.
Oct 28, 2018, 1:30 am
#50
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Actually, I think there are some merits on some of the points from OP.
I have flown HKG-CAN route, once was A321 which was full, and another time on A330 which wasn't full. However, both times are on HKG-CAN route, and not in reverse. This is because I was connecting from CX138 from SYD, which arrives at HKG at 5am, and it connects well to KA782.
However I cannot take CAN-HKG route on KA781/789 as none of them connect well to any of the 4 CX flights to SYD (dep time of 8:40am, 7pm, 9:25pm, 11:55pm). The minimum transit time at HKG is 7.5 hours (KA781/CX111). You would think with 3 overnight flights to SYD, I should be able to connect well at least one of them, but I cannot, not even CX111 which departs at 11:55pm as KA789 arrives at HKG at 11:25pm.
In fact, most Australian flights from HKG are overnight and none of the CAN-HKG flights can connect them well at all. I wish KA would have another 2 rotations on midday and afternoon flights on smaller aircraft, so it can connect well with a number of other KA/CX flights. I don't care if they operate on A330 or A321 or Dash-8 or ATR72, but at least provide better connecting times.
Also CAN-SYD is only operated by CZ and their prices are much more expensive on this route than HKG-SYD (cheap with all the competitions and flights on CX/QF/VA). I really think KA can capture more market share on CAN, and use that feeder flight to connect to even more CX/KA flights worldwide. CAN is a HUGE city and the catchment has MUCH MORE population than HKG (14 million and rising), and there is definitely opportunities to take some market share.
I have flown HKG-CAN route, once was A321 which was full, and another time on A330 which wasn't full. However, both times are on HKG-CAN route, and not in reverse. This is because I was connecting from CX138 from SYD, which arrives at HKG at 5am, and it connects well to KA782.
However I cannot take CAN-HKG route on KA781/789 as none of them connect well to any of the 4 CX flights to SYD (dep time of 8:40am, 7pm, 9:25pm, 11:55pm). The minimum transit time at HKG is 7.5 hours (KA781/CX111). You would think with 3 overnight flights to SYD, I should be able to connect well at least one of them, but I cannot, not even CX111 which departs at 11:55pm as KA789 arrives at HKG at 11:25pm.
In fact, most Australian flights from HKG are overnight and none of the CAN-HKG flights can connect them well at all. I wish KA would have another 2 rotations on midday and afternoon flights on smaller aircraft, so it can connect well with a number of other KA/CX flights. I don't care if they operate on A330 or A321 or Dash-8 or ATR72, but at least provide better connecting times.
Also CAN-SYD is only operated by CZ and their prices are much more expensive on this route than HKG-SYD (cheap with all the competitions and flights on CX/QF/VA). I really think KA can capture more market share on CAN, and use that feeder flight to connect to even more CX/KA flights worldwide. CAN is a HUGE city and the catchment has MUCH MORE population than HKG (14 million and rising), and there is definitely opportunities to take some market share.
Oct 28, 2018, 6:50 am
#51
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Join Date: Dec 2000
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<div style="text-align:left;"><br />Another question would be if u take reposition yourself to CAN to enjoy the price difference, why would people around CAN area take the high speed rail to fly from HK on a more expensive ticket? Isn’t it a good strategy to attract more passengers? Not everyone is travelling on business trip and I am pretty sure that there is a group of customers out there willing to sacrifice a ‘working day’ over thousands of dollars?<br /><br /></div>
Switching topics, I'd be surprised if more than 5 people per CAN-HKG flight are O/D.
Oct 28, 2018, 7:53 am
#52
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Oct 29, 2018, 12:26 am
#53
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 276
Routes that short in Europe are often served by an intercity services moving 1500+ people at once several times per hour...
Oct 29, 2018, 1:33 am
#54
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: Lowly CX & IHG
Posts: 382
Why would the train be idiotic? Running trains directly from the mainland to Honkong Airport (now that the HSL is there) would be usefull, and certainly be cheaper than operating a flight.
Routes that short in Europe are often served by an intercity services moving 1500+ people at once several times per hour...
Routes that short in Europe are often served by an intercity services moving 1500+ people at once several times per hour...
However there are also ferries between SkyPier and Pearl River Delta that goes airside directly, which is technically more viable.
Oct 29, 2018, 2:53 am
#55
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 276
Because the trains cannot operate directly to the airport, the Airport Express and the HSR isn't actually at the same station (a shopping centre between), baggage on HSR is limited to 130cm combined lengths and 20kg (officially), HSR tickets requires passenger ID verification, and passengers must go through Hong Kong's immigration process.
However there are also ferries between SkyPier and Pearl River Delta that goes airside directly, which is technically more viable.
Having a performing rail network serve the hinterland of an airport is something many countries do.
Oct 29, 2018, 3:48 am
#56
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hong Kong
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So basically China invests billions in high speed trains, and then purposely adds inconveniences to lower their value?
Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?
Having a performing rail network serve the hinterland of an airport is something many countries do.
Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?
Having a performing rail network serve the hinterland of an airport is something many countries do.
"Airside" specifically refers to the restricted departure/arrival area of the airport thus I don't think any airport railway does enter airside. SkyPier services are intercity/cross-border and passengers on board have all exited their departing city.
Back on topic, both the SkyPier ferry and the HKG-CAN flights can check through baggages so less things to worry throughout the journey. That's important to anyone not wanting to find ways through an unfamiliar place with bulky belongings. The flight also provides protected transfer in case of irrops (as most likely in one ticket).
Last edited by watery; Oct 29, 2018 at 3:57 am
Oct 29, 2018, 3:54 am
#57
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Actually, I think there are some merits on some of the points from OP.
I have flown HKG-CAN route, once was A321 which was full, and another time on A330 which wasn't full. However, both times are on HKG-CAN route, and not in reverse. This is because I was connecting from CX138 from SYD, which arrives at HKG at 5am, and it connects well to KA782.
I have flown HKG-CAN route, once was A321 which was full, and another time on A330 which wasn't full. However, both times are on HKG-CAN route, and not in reverse. This is because I was connecting from CX138 from SYD, which arrives at HKG at 5am, and it connects well to KA782.
This whole thread is started on a nonsense post by someone who fails to recognise the concept of supply and demand - or rather, demand dictating the deployment of wide-body aircraft (supply) on the route.
The comparison between this and routes in rural Finland just makes it outright laughable..
Oct 29, 2018, 10:05 am
#59
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 41,991
This post is obviously started by someone who has no knowledge of the Asian aviation market and refused to do a any basic research.
There are more people living in Asia than the rest of the world combine. Hence the capacity is justified. It’s like saying my infant drinks 8oz of milk for breakfast why does an adult eat so much instead?
The query has has been answered in full multiple times so take it or leave it, we’re going round the circle.
There are more people living in Asia than the rest of the world combine. Hence the capacity is justified. It’s like saying my infant drinks 8oz of milk for breakfast why does an adult eat so much instead?
The query has has been answered in full multiple times so take it or leave it, we’re going round the circle.
Because the trains cannot operate directly to the airport, the Airport Express and the HSR isn't actually at the same station (a shopping centre between), baggage on HSR is limited to 130cm combined lengths and 20kg (officially), HSR tickets requires passenger ID verification, and passengers must go through Hong Kong's immigration process.
However there are also ferries between SkyPier and Pearl River Delta that goes airside directly, which is technically more viable.
However there are also ferries between SkyPier and Pearl River Delta that goes airside directly, which is technically more viable.
This may start getting a bit off-topic from the KA HKG-CAN route but allow me to explain my own observation a bit about it: Airport railway was built in HK metro standard 20 years ago and now a likely bottleneck at the bridge having longest span of all road-rail bridges. China HSR system has different spec (like signal) and administration, who handled the massive traffic within mainland fine, but unavoidable inconvenience to go across two administrative regions and operators. It costs HK$84b (of Hong Kong's money) for the 26km of HSR within Hong Kong. If it extends to the airport it is by no means just "a bit of extra infrastructure".
"Airside" specifically refers to the restricted departure/arrival area of the airport thus I don't think any airport railway does enter airside. SkyPier services are intercity/cross-border and passengers on board have all exited their departing city.
Back on topic, both the SkyPier ferry and the HKG-CAN flights can check through baggages so less things to worry throughout the journey. That's important to anyone not wanting to find ways through an unfamiliar place with bulky belongings. The flight also provides protected transfer in case of irrops (as most likely in one ticket).
"Airside" specifically refers to the restricted departure/arrival area of the airport thus I don't think any airport railway does enter airside. SkyPier services are intercity/cross-border and passengers on board have all exited their departing city.
Back on topic, both the SkyPier ferry and the HKG-CAN flights can check through baggages so less things to worry throughout the journey. That's important to anyone not wanting to find ways through an unfamiliar place with bulky belongings. The flight also provides protected transfer in case of irrops (as most likely in one ticket).
Not exactly a statistically representative sample to question CX/KA's rationale behind their aircraft deployments, is it...? - two flights...
This whole thread is started on a nonsense post by someone who fails to recognise the concept of supply and demand - or rather, demand dictating the deployment of wide-body aircraft (supply) on the route.
The comparison between this and routes in rural Finland just makes it outright laughable..
This whole thread is started on a nonsense post by someone who fails to recognise the concept of supply and demand - or rather, demand dictating the deployment of wide-body aircraft (supply) on the route.
The comparison between this and routes in rural Finland just makes it outright laughable..
So basically China invests billions in high speed trains, and then purposely adds inconveniences to lower their value?
Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?
Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?
Oct 29, 2018, 10:13 am
#60
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So basically China invests billions in high speed trains, and then purposely adds inconveniences to lower their value?
Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?
Having a performing rail network serve the hinterland of an airport is something many countries do.
Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?
Having a performing rail network serve the hinterland of an airport is something many countries do.
tsing ma bridge is slot restricted cuz the chinese in late1980s didnt allow uk to build a 4-track section claiming its a waste of money. it is now already running at capacity thanks to the chinese incapability to understand urban planning.
it causes problems when we fly cuz aex cant put on more trains already.
Last edited by kaka; Oct 29, 2018 at 6:23 pm