A333 on HKG-CAN! Isn't it insane?!

Old Oct 27, 18, 1:16 pm
  #46  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: YVR, KUL
Programs: MH, AC, AS
Posts: 1,711
Originally Posted by miklcct View Post
I believe it is still flyable by an A321?! 80% of its range, OK?
HKG-TPE is about 75% the range of a Cessna 172. No wonder CX is losing money.

Originally Posted by miklcct View Post
Under ABSOLUTELY NO circumstances I will reposition to CAN and take CAN-HKG KA flight.
But if KA were to operate the Q400 on this route, would you?

Originally Posted by miklcct View Post
AY's HEL-TKU/TMP are comparable to KA's HKG-CAN...
Those secondary airports get about as many passengers a year as HKG/CAN do in a day.

Comparable? Not in the slightest.

Originally Posted by miklcct View Post
The morning CAN-HKG flight arrives HK just before noon, and I don't know how it can minimise the connection time for most passengers, especially departing at noon for medium-haul is considered extremely bad timing because a working day is wasted.
You seem to be forgetting that connecting traffic flows both ways. The aircraft that operates CAN-HKG needs to first operate HKG-CAN. That morning flight leaving HKG around 8am is about as good as it gets for connecting traffic from the US/Europe that arrive around 5:30-7am.
SilverChris is offline  
Old Oct 27, 18, 5:02 pm
  #47  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 171
This post is obviously started by someone who has no knowledge of the Asian aviation market and refused to do a any basic research.

There are more people living in Asia than the rest of the world combine. Hence the capacity is justified. It’s like saying my infant drinks 8oz of milk for breakfast why does an adult eat so much instead?

The query has has been answered in full multiple times so take it or leave it, we’re going round the circle.
Nicc HK, QRC3288, HaikalS and 4 others like this.
jckl is offline  
Old Oct 27, 18, 7:57 pm
  #48  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by miklcct View Post
I believe it is still flyable by an A321?! 80% of its range, OK?
ok but it is flyable does not equal to it has to be fly in this way? i only took HKG-CAN flight once, 320 all-Y to CAN and 333 back, it was indeed very full

Another question would be if u take reposition yourself to CAN to enjoy the price difference, why would people around CAN area take the high speed rail to fly from HK on a more expensive ticket? Isn’t it a good strategy to attract more passengers? Not everyone is travelling on business trip and I am pretty sure that there is a group of customers out there willing to sacrifice a ‘working day’ over thousands of dollars?

i am not an aviation expert but I think timing of these two flights are good enough to make them sustainable. And i wonder, say 6 flights with 320 would be more profitable than 1 333 and 1 320? They need to get the time slot, pay more people for ground handling, sacrifice other destinations if they are not getting more aircraft OR to get more aircraft? There must be more to think about but sorry I am not aviation expert - at least not expert as many of others in this thread.

Last edited by xuukgo; Oct 27, 18 at 8:06 pm
xuukgo is offline  
Old Oct 27, 18, 10:15 pm
  #49  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YYZ
Programs: A3 *Gold, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 43
I flew this route back in April/May (Roundtrip HKG-CAN); Both legs were completely full, most pax were connecting rather than originating/terminating in HKG. In fact one of the flights was scheduled to be operated by a KA A321 but was switched a couple weeks before the flight to accommodate the demand.


Great way to get between the 2 cities, and use the CX lounges in HKG if flying J or have status. Also a steal if you use Avios.
oa424 is offline  
Old Oct 28, 18, 1:30 am
  #50  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SYD and going nowhere
Programs: QR/VA Gold, QF Silver, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,481
Actually, I think there are some merits on some of the points from OP.

I have flown HKG-CAN route, once was A321 which was full, and another time on A330 which wasn't full. However, both times are on HKG-CAN route, and not in reverse. This is because I was connecting from CX138 from SYD, which arrives at HKG at 5am, and it connects well to KA782.

However I cannot take CAN-HKG route on KA781/789 as none of them connect well to any of the 4 CX flights to SYD (dep time of 8:40am, 7pm, 9:25pm, 11:55pm). The minimum transit time at HKG is 7.5 hours (KA781/CX111). You would think with 3 overnight flights to SYD, I should be able to connect well at least one of them, but I cannot, not even CX111 which departs at 11:55pm as KA789 arrives at HKG at 11:25pm.

In fact, most Australian flights from HKG are overnight and none of the CAN-HKG flights can connect them well at all. I wish KA would have another 2 rotations on midday and afternoon flights on smaller aircraft, so it can connect well with a number of other KA/CX flights. I don't care if they operate on A330 or A321 or Dash-8 or ATR72, but at least provide better connecting times.

Also CAN-SYD is only operated by CZ and their prices are much more expensive on this route than HKG-SYD (cheap with all the competitions and flights on CX/QF/VA). I really think KA can capture more market share on CAN, and use that feeder flight to connect to even more CX/KA flights worldwide. CAN is a HUGE city and the catchment has MUCH MORE population than HKG (14 million and rising), and there is definitely opportunities to take some market share.
kamchatsky is offline  
Old Oct 28, 18, 6:50 am
  #51  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 32,986
Originally Posted by xuukgo View Post
<div style="text-align:left;"><br />Another question would be if u take reposition yourself to CAN to enjoy the price difference, why would people around CAN area take the high speed rail to fly from HK on a more expensive ticket? Isn’t it a good strategy to attract more passengers? Not everyone is travelling on business trip and I am pretty sure that there is a group of customers out there willing to sacrifice a ‘working day’ over thousands of dollars?<br /><br /></div>
I thought about responding to the train idea when it was first introduced in this thread, but figured I'd save the effort because it is arguably even more idiotic than the Dash 8 proposal. Anyway, apart from the fact that taking the train eliminates thousands of dollars in savings that one avails of by flying from CAN, the train is major hassle, and requires entering/exiting HK.

Switching topics, I'd be surprised if more than 5 people per CAN-HKG flight are O/D.
moondog is offline  
Old Oct 28, 18, 7:53 am
  #52  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ...
Posts: 1,019
Originally Posted by tentseller View Post
Are we FINISH with this discussion yet?

No need to be russian it.
sxc, tentseller, Chromie25 and 2 others like this.
Jane's Addiction is offline  
Old Oct 29, 18, 12:26 am
  #53  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by moondog View Post
I thought about responding to the train idea when it was first introduced in this thread, but figured I'd save the effort because it is arguably even more idiotic than the Dash 8 proposal.
Why would the train be idiotic? Running trains directly from the mainland to Honkong Airport (now that the HSL is there) would be usefull, and certainly be cheaper than operating a flight.

Routes that short in Europe are often served by an intercity services moving 1500+ people at once several times per hour...
miklcct likes this.
KayVeeBee is offline  
Old Oct 29, 18, 1:33 am
  #54  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: Lowly CX & IHG
Posts: 368
Originally Posted by KayVeeBee View Post
Why would the train be idiotic? Running trains directly from the mainland to Honkong Airport (now that the HSL is there) would be usefull, and certainly be cheaper than operating a flight.

Routes that short in Europe are often served by an intercity services moving 1500+ people at once several times per hour...
Because the trains cannot operate directly to the airport, the Airport Express and the HSR isn't actually at the same station (a shopping centre between), baggage on HSR is limited to 130cm combined lengths and 20kg (officially), HSR tickets requires passenger ID verification, and passengers must go through Hong Kong's immigration process.

However there are also ferries between SkyPier and Pearl River Delta that goes airside directly, which is technically more viable.
watery is offline  
Old Oct 29, 18, 2:53 am
  #55  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by watery View Post
Because the trains cannot operate directly to the airport, the Airport Express and the HSR isn't actually at the same station (a shopping centre between), baggage on HSR is limited to 130cm combined lengths and 20kg (officially), HSR tickets requires passenger ID verification, and passengers must go through Hong Kong's immigration process.
So basically China invests billions in high speed trains, and then purposely adds inconveniences to lower their value?

However there are also ferries between SkyPier and Pearl River Delta that goes airside directly, which is technically more viable.
Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?

Having a performing rail network serve the hinterland of an airport is something many countries do.
miklcct likes this.
KayVeeBee is offline  
Old Oct 29, 18, 3:48 am
  #56  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: Lowly CX & IHG
Posts: 368
Originally Posted by KayVeeBee View Post
So basically China invests billions in high speed trains, and then purposely adds inconveniences to lower their value?

Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?

Having a performing rail network serve the hinterland of an airport is something many countries do.
This may start getting a bit off-topic from the KA HKG-CAN route but allow me to explain my own observation a bit about it: Airport railway was built in HK metro standard 20 years ago and now a likely bottleneck at the bridge having longest span of all road-rail bridges. China HSR system has different spec (like signal) and administration, who handled the massive traffic within mainland fine, but unavoidable inconvenience to go across two administrative regions and operators. It costs HK$84b (of Hong Kong's money) for the 26km of HSR within Hong Kong. If it extends to the airport it is by no means just "a bit of extra infrastructure".

"Airside" specifically refers to the restricted departure/arrival area of the airport thus I don't think any airport railway does enter airside. SkyPier services are intercity/cross-border and passengers on board have all exited their departing city.

Back on topic, both the SkyPier ferry and the HKG-CAN flights can check through baggages so less things to worry throughout the journey. That's important to anyone not wanting to find ways through an unfamiliar place with bulky belongings. The flight also provides protected transfer in case of irrops (as most likely in one ticket).

Last edited by watery; Oct 29, 18 at 3:57 am
watery is offline  
Old Oct 29, 18, 3:54 am
  #57  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BKK
Programs: SK EBG for Life (*G), BA Gold, HH DIA, IC Platinum Ambassador, Hertz President's Circle, Sixt Plat
Posts: 1,165
Originally Posted by kamchatsky View Post
Actually, I think there are some merits on some of the points from OP.

I have flown HKG-CAN route, once was A321 which was full, and another time on A330 which wasn't full. However, both times are on HKG-CAN route, and not in reverse. This is because I was connecting from CX138 from SYD, which arrives at HKG at 5am, and it connects well to KA782.
Not exactly a statistically representative sample to question CX/KA's rationale behind their aircraft deployments, is it...? - two flights...

This whole thread is started on a nonsense post by someone who fails to recognise the concept of supply and demand - or rather, demand dictating the deployment of wide-body aircraft (supply) on the route.
The comparison between this and routes in rural Finland just makes it outright laughable..
kaka, jinglish and marcommm like this.
SKT-DK is offline  
Old Oct 29, 18, 6:05 am
  #58  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: MPC-DM, Enrich-Plat
Posts: 706
Originally Posted by KayVeeBee View Post
So basically China invests billions in high speed trains, and then purposely adds inconveniences to lower their value?
Yes, that's called a political compromise .....
Cambo is offline  
Old Oct 29, 18, 10:05 am
  #59  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 32,986
Originally Posted by jckl View Post
This post is obviously started by someone who has no knowledge of the Asian aviation market and refused to do a any basic research.

There are more people living in Asia than the rest of the world combine. Hence the capacity is justified. It’s like saying my infant drinks 8oz of milk for breakfast why does an adult eat so much instead?

The query has has been answered in full multiple times so take it or leave it, we’re going round the circle.
Originally Posted by Jane's Addiction View Post
No need to be russian it.
Originally Posted by watery View Post
Because the trains cannot operate directly to the airport, the Airport Express and the HSR isn't actually at the same station (a shopping centre between), baggage on HSR is limited to 130cm combined lengths and 20kg (officially), HSR tickets requires passenger ID verification, and passengers must go through Hong Kong's immigration process.

However there are also ferries between SkyPier and Pearl River Delta that goes airside directly, which is technically more viable.
Originally Posted by watery View Post
This may start getting a bit off-topic from the KA HKG-CAN route but allow me to explain my own observation a bit about it: Airport railway was built in HK metro standard 20 years ago and now a likely bottleneck at the bridge having longest span of all road-rail bridges. China HSR system has different spec (like signal) and administration, who handled the massive traffic within mainland fine, but unavoidable inconvenience to go across two administrative regions and operators. It costs HK$84b (of Hong Kong's money) for the 26km of HSR within Hong Kong. If it extends to the airport it is by no means just "a bit of extra infrastructure".

"Airside" specifically refers to the restricted departure/arrival area of the airport thus I don't think any airport railway does enter airside. SkyPier services are intercity/cross-border and passengers on board have all exited their departing city.

Back on topic, both the SkyPier ferry and the HKG-CAN flights can check through baggages so less things to worry throughout the journey. That's important to anyone not wanting to find ways through an unfamiliar place with bulky belongings. The flight also provides protected transfer in case of irrops (as most likely in one ticket).
Originally Posted by SKT-DK View Post
Not exactly a statistically representative sample to question CX/KA's rationale behind their aircraft deployments, is it...? - two flights...

This whole thread is started on a nonsense post by someone who fails to recognise the concept of supply and demand - or rather, demand dictating the deployment of wide-body aircraft (supply) on the route.
The comparison between this and routes in rural Finland just makes it outright laughable..
Originally Posted by KayVeeBee View Post
So basically China invests billions in high speed trains, and then purposely adds inconveniences to lower their value?

Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?
HKIA service was never part of the plan. Fortunately, the ferry system out of Sky Pier is pretty good, and adequately addresses demand.
moondog is offline  
Old Oct 29, 18, 10:13 am
  #60  
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,959
Originally Posted by KayVeeBee View Post
So basically China invests billions in high speed trains, and then purposely adds inconveniences to lower their value?



Well, with a bit of extra infrastructure, and a more sensible railway policy they could run trains form the mainland to the aiport "airside" as well, couldn't they?

Having a performing rail network serve the hinterland of an airport is something many countries do.
correct. hsr in china is simple a white elephant.
tsing ma bridge is slot restricted cuz the chinese in late1980s didnt allow uk to build a 4-track section claiming its a waste of money. it is now already running at capacity thanks to the chinese incapability to understand urban planning.
it causes problems when we fly cuz aex cant put on more trains already.

Last edited by kaka; Oct 29, 18 at 6:23 pm
kaka is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: