No more F for ZRH from Summer 2019 onwards
May 17, 2018, 12:50 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
No more F for ZRH from Summer 2019 onwards
Sometimes I can be wrong. 884 is safe for now. As per inventory checks, CX has zeroed out all F, A, Z for ZRH flights from the beginning of Summer 2019 schedule.
Quite sure it's not a 'not-yet-loaded' situation as I personally grabbed a Z award for this time period earlier ago myself.
This is yet another F class reduction after a 1-year hiatus this year, following 1 LAX rotation in 2017, DUS in 2016 and JNB in 2014.
(As someone with intense OCD about almost everything related to CX, I have checked F/A availability and Z awards for all other ports. All look safe for now.)
My guess is A351 will be the replacement, but it could be a 35G too...
Quite sure it's not a 'not-yet-loaded' situation as I personally grabbed a Z award for this time period earlier ago myself.
This is yet another F class reduction after a 1-year hiatus this year, following 1 LAX rotation in 2017, DUS in 2016 and JNB in 2014.
(As someone with intense OCD about almost everything related to CX, I have checked F/A availability and Z awards for all other ports. All look safe for now.)
My guess is A351 will be the replacement, but it could be a 35G too...
May 17, 2018, 1:38 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
A very general rule-of-thumb is 3 frames for 2 rotations. Since CX will retire 3 77H in 2018-19, I guess LAX 898 and ZRH are the two victims.
With another 2 more 77H going away, one more rotation may be at peril 1-2 seasons further down the road.
If I am not mistaken, CX ordered 21 777X which seem to be a 1-to-1 replacement for 77H. This translates to ~14 rotations. 3 to London, 4 to NYC, 1 to Paris and Frankfurt, that leaves at most five left - now we have seven after ZRH is gone (1x Boston, 1x ORD, 4x West Coast, 1x Milan). I know no numbers but my wild bets would be on 888, Milan and 884 not entirely safe from the chopping block (for F, not the flight itself!).
With another 2 more 77H going away, one more rotation may be at peril 1-2 seasons further down the road.
If I am not mistaken, CX ordered 21 777X which seem to be a 1-to-1 replacement for 77H. This translates to ~14 rotations. 3 to London, 4 to NYC, 1 to Paris and Frankfurt, that leaves at most five left - now we have seven after ZRH is gone (1x Boston, 1x ORD, 4x West Coast, 1x Milan). I know no numbers but my wild bets would be on 888, Milan and 884 not entirely safe from the chopping block (for F, not the flight itself!).
May 18, 2018, 6:04 am
#6
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,421
A very general rule-of-thumb is 3 frames for 2 rotations. Since CX will retire 3 77H in 2018-19, I guess LAX 898 and ZRH are the two victims.
With another 2 more 77H going away, one more rotation may be at peril 1-2 seasons further down the road.
If I am not mistaken, CX ordered 21 777X which seem to be a 1-to-1 replacement for 77H. This translates to ~14 rotations. 3 to London, 4 to NYC, 1 to Paris and Frankfurt, that leaves at most five left - now we have seven after ZRH is gone (1x Boston, 1x ORD, 4x West Coast, 1x Milan). I know no numbers but my wild bets would be on 888, Milan and 884 not entirely safe from the chopping block (for F, not the flight itself!).
With another 2 more 77H going away, one more rotation may be at peril 1-2 seasons further down the road.
If I am not mistaken, CX ordered 21 777X which seem to be a 1-to-1 replacement for 77H. This translates to ~14 rotations. 3 to London, 4 to NYC, 1 to Paris and Frankfurt, that leaves at most five left - now we have seven after ZRH is gone (1x Boston, 1x ORD, 4x West Coast, 1x Milan). I know no numbers but my wild bets would be on 888, Milan and 884 not entirely safe from the chopping block (for F, not the flight itself!).
they are planning quite a bit of expansion ( execs were in Mexico City last week)
with the 777-9 taking over flagship routes and 777;s doing other routes/midhaul
May 18, 2018, 6:37 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,532
ZRH is a premium heavy route with major banks Insurance and commodities companies, not forgetting Novartis and ABB nearby.
Also a lot of wealthy individuals.
On the other hand, few companies pay F anymore and LX upgraded its plane to a 77W not long ago, so a lot of seats on offer.
I am still surprise that F is removed from ZRH rather than some other destinations.
Also a lot of wealthy individuals.
On the other hand, few companies pay F anymore and LX upgraded its plane to a 77W not long ago, so a lot of seats on offer.
I am still surprise that F is removed from ZRH rather than some other destinations.
May 20, 2018, 10:02 am
#8
Join Date: Jan 2017
Programs: BA SL, CX GR, IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 573
ZRH is a premium heavy route with major banks Insurance and commodities companies, not forgetting Novartis and ABB nearby.
Also a lot of wealthy individuals.
On the other hand, few companies pay F anymore and LX upgraded its plane to a 77W not long ago, so a lot of seats on offer.
I am still surprise that F is removed from ZRH rather than some other destinations.
Also a lot of wealthy individuals.
On the other hand, few companies pay F anymore and LX upgraded its plane to a 77W not long ago, so a lot of seats on offer.
I am still surprise that F is removed from ZRH rather than some other destinations.
May 20, 2018, 11:51 am
#9
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: BA GGL, TK*G EL, KL P ELPL, ex AB P, ex LH/LX Sen, HHonors D4L, Bonvoy P
Posts: 1,647
ZRH is very premium heavy, however mainly J. Having a large J cabin is more critical for economic success in this market. Y is generally the most difficult out of ZRH. That's why SQ operates a 388 version with more J to ZRH (and LHR). When CX changed some European destinations to 359, some expected the same to happen with ZRH. I understand this did (so far) not happen because of the lack of J ... So perhaps the 351 is a good guess? Does anyone know its J capacity?
May 20, 2018, 2:20 pm
#10
Join Date: Jan 2017
Programs: BA SL, CX GR, IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 573
ZRH is very premium heavy, however mainly J. Having a large J cabin is more critical for economic success in this market. Y is generally the most difficult out of ZRH. That's why SQ operates a 388 version with more J to ZRH (and LHR). When CX changed some European destinations to 359, some expected the same to happen with ZRH. I understand this did (so far) not happen because of the lack of J ... So perhaps the 351 is a good guess? Does anyone know its J capacity?
May 20, 2018, 5:05 pm
#11
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
ZRH and CDG are my most frequent European ports. Anecdotally, I have never had an issue buying (or redeeming for) a ZRH F ticket in the last 3-4 years, however long it has been running.
Compare that to CDG, where on a few occasions I genuinely couldnt buy an F ticket, admitted last minute. But another example, 5 weeks I am looking to fly CDG-HKG in F... if I book, I am the last seat available in the cabin, 2D. Totally full. (For fun, I used ZRH on the same dates and then did EF to look each day forward and back 3 days. ZRH is open. Although CX is only selling two F tickets each day to/from ZRH those days, it strongly looks like that's because they're overselling J. I infer this from the F seat map wide open and the J seat map heavily occupied).
Of course I only do these trips 2-3x a year so it's obviously very anecdotal. But in my head, right or wrong I think "Going to/from ZRH, no problem getting F last minute. To/from CDG, I better be in advance".
Compare that to CDG, where on a few occasions I genuinely couldnt buy an F ticket, admitted last minute. But another example, 5 weeks I am looking to fly CDG-HKG in F... if I book, I am the last seat available in the cabin, 2D. Totally full. (For fun, I used ZRH on the same dates and then did EF to look each day forward and back 3 days. ZRH is open. Although CX is only selling two F tickets each day to/from ZRH those days, it strongly looks like that's because they're overselling J. I infer this from the F seat map wide open and the J seat map heavily occupied).
Of course I only do these trips 2-3x a year so it's obviously very anecdotal. But in my head, right or wrong I think "Going to/from ZRH, no problem getting F last minute. To/from CDG, I better be in advance".
May 21, 2018, 10:04 am
#12
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 66
ZRH and CDG are my most frequent European ports. Anecdotally, I have never had an issue buying (or redeeming for) a ZRH F ticket in the last 3-4 years, however long it has been running.
Compare that to CDG, where on a few occasions I genuinely couldnt buy an F ticket, admitted last minute. But another example, 5 weeks I am looking to fly CDG-HKG in F... if I book, I am the last seat available in the cabin, 2D. Totally full. (For fun, I used ZRH on the same dates and then did EF to look each day forward and back 3 days. ZRH is open. Although CX is only selling two F tickets each day to/from ZRH those days, it strongly looks like that's because they're overselling J. I infer this from the F seat map wide open and the J seat map heavily occupied).
Of course I only do these trips 2-3x a year so it's obviously very anecdotal. But in my head, right or wrong I think "Going to/from ZRH, no problem getting F last minute. To/from CDG, I better be in advance".
Compare that to CDG, where on a few occasions I genuinely couldnt buy an F ticket, admitted last minute. But another example, 5 weeks I am looking to fly CDG-HKG in F... if I book, I am the last seat available in the cabin, 2D. Totally full. (For fun, I used ZRH on the same dates and then did EF to look each day forward and back 3 days. ZRH is open. Although CX is only selling two F tickets each day to/from ZRH those days, it strongly looks like that's because they're overselling J. I infer this from the F seat map wide open and the J seat map heavily occupied).
Of course I only do these trips 2-3x a year so it's obviously very anecdotal. But in my head, right or wrong I think "Going to/from ZRH, no problem getting F last minute. To/from CDG, I better be in advance".
In particular it seems that little to no space is opened up close to departure (compared with, say, the HKG-North American routes), which I suspect may be due to CX intentionally overselling J, as you said.
May 21, 2018, 5:41 pm
#13
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
That's interesting, as I've found ZRH-HKG & vice versa to be consistently the most difficult CX route on which to find award space.
In particular it seems that little to no space is opened up close to departure (compared with, say, the HKG-North American routes), which I suspect may be due to CX intentionally overselling J, as you said.
In particular it seems that little to no space is opened up close to departure (compared with, say, the HKG-North American routes), which I suspect may be due to CX intentionally overselling J, as you said.
May 21, 2018, 6:55 pm
#14
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
Id think j is what finance companies pay for, and F is what the entertainment biz/fasion biz/tiger momsetc would pay for in general
And then u get outliers.
so looking at the routing ull find out which ones f gets booked out and which one not
so looking at the routing ull find out which ones f gets booked out and which one not
