FiveMileFinal

fl360

I am a OWS here, usually fly QF/CX/AA J for work and CX Y for leisure, as I can pick good CX Y seats for free, with the introduction of 3-4-3 777 I am getting annoyed.
No one here proposed the better seat options for Y, here are my two cents, of course this only applies if you have board shoulders and over 6 feet tall, if you are tiny and under 5 feet Airasia / Cebu pacific is OK for you too.

I am over 6 feet and have board shoulders, I just realise that one of my upcoming HKG-SYD flights will be 3-4-3, what they do is quietly add seat F to the middle seats section to minimise the change.

so what now ? personally I cannot seat behind someone as they all recline all the time and I will go mental, so I will only pick bulkhead / exit row, however we all know that those seats have a hard board armrest as this is where the tray goes, so what I will do is select the window sides exit / bulkhead seats only, so at least one side is a normal armrest and you are not blocked off by those hard armrests from both sides.

I also flew CX PEY too, it was a bad choice, unless you are at the bulkhead what I have found is because the passengers in front of you are mostly A-holes and they will recline to the full for the whole flight, because the seats recline angle is significant, you cannot even view the screen in front of you correctly, so I hate their PEY cabin too.

in terms of pricing, using CX long haul SYD LHR as an example, CX wants to charge 1,200 return for Y, and around 3k for PEY, and over 7k, 8k for J.
if I have to pay for my flights I will pay more, say up to 1300 for SQ economy, so I can seat comfortably for the 18 hr flight, and also I will not pay 3-4k for CX's PEY as China airlines are doing 4k return Sydney London / USA in business class, you all know they have 1-2-1 for J, just like Cathay. that's make Cathay's PEY and J product seems little or no value for leisure travelers.

what I can see is those PAX will found CX's 3-4-3 terrible, so some will avoid them forever and jump to SQ Y, or Chinese airlines business classes, as a result there will always be empty seats in CX Y, those remaining passengers still flies with them, who have suffered from those seat before, will fights for seats with an empty seats next to them either during boarding or shortly after takeoff, tension will rise, those lose out will fly SQ next time.

means CX's profit will not go up because they still cannot fill those 3-4-3 flights full even if they drop the price, that's in 2-3 years time. my forecast.

ermen

sadly what you will find is that the majority of passengers make decisions based on price.
granted there are a few that have the discretion / discernment.. but they are trumped overwhelmingly by price conscious passengers

fl360

I think Cathay's revenue stream is a bit different, roughly half is HK locals going somewhere, from that CX cannot be the cheapest as there are various LCCs and HK express and the like, they always will be cheaper, and some even give them a free meal and free bags.... furthermore the ME3s and the Chinese can always price cheaper as they have lower staff cost.

then you have people coming to HK from say europe and america, if I live in UK and come to HK, can CX be cheaper than BA and or AA ? BA's A380 to HK is much better than this 3-4-3 777.

lastly for something like the kangaroo route, the passengers in London and Australia are seasoned travelers and they will know what to avoid, and when to book a good discounted SQ Y fare...

this is not the first time, years ago CX had the hard shell Y shell seats which are killing people's backs on long haul routes, they actually have to change it back.

CX this time will keep these 3-4-3 777, but I have serious doubts if they can keep them fullly loaded all the time, even when they drop the fare !

percysmith

CX: doesn't matter, just as long as the local half are squeezed til they squeak (and then some).

tobiashenry

On CX Middle Eastern route recently, many are not locals. Not really sure whether they really bother with the local market.

tobiashenry

Not sure when the 777-9X will come, but it seems the more they do so, the less inclination that I wish to travel on them. (Disclaimer: I am * Gold, thus already less likely to travel with them unless they have good price)

fl360

Just for some future people googled this page and trying to find out what do to with CX's 3-4-3 777s... here is a FAQ

Question : I recently flew CX's new 777 with 3-4-3 seating, and the seats are so narrow and even I saved $50 USD, I end up have to spend $200 USD for a physiotherapist, there is a guy a few rows from me actually ending up detained in a police cell in HK because he had a fight with the next passenger next to him over shoulder space as they both have board shoulders.

Q: but all the CX fanboy tell us this is what all airlines do nowadays with their 777, so I have no alternatives ?
A: that's BS, read below.....

Q : I live in UK / Europe, what to do ?
A: try BA's A380 to HK, the A380's Y 3-4-3 lower deck and 2-4-2 upper deck is the best Y seats nowadays in terms of Y passenger comfort.

Q: I live in Australia, what to do ?
A: for direct flights, try Qantas's A380 to HK,
if you are going to USA from Australia, use Delta's 777 as they are still 3-3-3, or Qantas's A380 to the USA.
if you are going to Europe from Australia, secure a discount fare when SQ have specials, their 777 are still 3-3-3 and even better, fly their A380s.
Also consider flying Chinese airlines' they often have specials, and do your research on their seating arrangements, for business class, consider China airlines (transit via TPE) as often they have business class specials to europe and USA for around 4k AUD, that's half the price of Cathay / Qantas. China airlines business class is 1-2-1 seating, it is the same as Cathay's business class, google it.

Q: I based in HK, what to do ?
A: for flights under 3 hours, pick whatever the cheapest
for long haul to USA, try Singapore airlines, Chinese airlines, and China airlines transit via TPE. Note if you are oneworld sapphire or above, you can fly AA's main cabin extra for free for yourself and all of your companions in the same booking, that's a very good bonus.
for long haul to Europe, consider BA's A380. or Chinese airlines, and China airlines.

but I think Cathay's a350 is still OK as it is still 3-3-3 for Y, and the A350 is only slightly narrower than the 777, unlike the 787 which is much narrower compared to the 777 and bloody Qantas stills cramps 3-3-3 in them.

Note this discussion is all about Y, PEY and J is another discussion.

percysmith

A380 service to HK is only seasonal
Normally the SYD-HKG route is serviced by one 747 and one A330.
MEL and BNE by A330.

The QF A330s will be replaced by 787 https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-begi...s-to-hong-kong
Again using my chart that standardises all cabin wall/armrest/aisles to the CX measurements behind its 17.2" claim

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...l#post29874879
777 10-abreast: 17.19"
787: 17.62"
747: 18.09"
A350: 18.18"
A330: 18.54"
A380: 19.69"

(I'm going to get the obligatory "19.69" A380 seat doesn't happen in reality' complaint. My retort is: I don't give - a tenth of an inch taken from an armrest is a tenth of an inch I'm going to have fight my neighbour over. An inch taken from an aisle is an inch of impact my shoulder is going to get from a cart. The only really relevant variables is cabin width and number of seats installed in that width. If an A380 comes up as 19.69" behemoth, that's cos the seat is wider than 777 Premium Economy if the armrest and the aisles are as thin as those on CX 777 10-abreast).

Still, that means a 787 is still 0.4" wider than 777 10-abreast, even if it is just slightly wider than 737 and 0.4" narrower than a 747. On a absolute width basis QF 787>CX 777 10-abreast.

percysmith

These are inevitably transits.
But whether a transit is necessary or not, if you can afford the time to transit you have a lot more pricing power.

It's those of us who have to fly direct who become slaves of schedule.

fl360

if you have to fly direct it probably means you will be flying for business, the general deal is either they fly you J or PEY, or if they are so tight so you have to fly Y for business they need to give you enough rest before and after, and those should not be taken as leave.... or find another employer...

BA stands for British Airways, I assume people in this forum are non-HK locals and don't know about "Because Air".

When I fly QF to HK I was able to pick the A380s... so make sure you pay more to get those A380 flights, coz they will be better than any 3-4-3 777s and 3-3-3 787s...

percysmith

fakecd

if Economy north america to HK then Japan Air is very good product on their skywider econony (34inch pitch etc). australia i go qantas now. asia i choose cheapest to deliver OW preference. Europe try Finnair.

speak with ur wallet. let CX be filled with those clientale who click on cheapest fare and we all know those are not your best client segment

kamchatsky

I have just flown Cx138 on Y. Thank goodness that it is not 10 abreast yet and I thought that it was quite roomy even though I could not get sleep well. We only paid $690AUD return with booking less thank 1 week in advance, so I am not really complaining. Admittedly I wanted to fly VA to HKG via MEL overnight as it was even cheaper at $610AUD but the wife preferred no additional transit time.

Coming back in a weeks time I will fly CX 111 which is still A330.

But once it becomes 10 abreast it would only fly it on day flights only. I just couldn't sleep on overnight Y flight.

peasant

9 x 1,300 = 11,700
10x 1,200 = 12,000
(yes, load factors come into play, but both SQ and CX are >80% LF, which probably translates to 90-95% in long haul economy)

So, you are not willing to pay enough more to justify 9 vs 10. Nor are many people