Densified 777 10 abreast: Reviews and Experiences

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Old Sep 9, 18, 11:30 pm   -   Wikipost
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Confirmed:
SCMP, Oct 2, 2016: Hong Kong’s Cathay Pacific to introduce 10-abreast seating in its Boeing planes
SCMP, March 31, 2017: Hong Kong Cathay Pacific passengers to feel the squeeze in push for profits
SCMP, March 31, 2017: Inside Cathay Pacific's new condensed economy class

48 long-haul 777s to be retrofitted. 17 regionals (including the 5 ex-Emirates aircraft). Five of the earliest 77W long-haul fleet (all first-class) to be phased out.

New seat details
Seat legroom: 32" (no change)
Seat width: 17.2" (down 1.3")
IFE screen: Long-haul - 12" (up 3"); Regional - 9" (no change)
Extra personal storage
New six-way headrest (similar to A350 but not like-for-like)
Wi-Fi
Thinner seats but extra padding

Economy class retrofit from mid-2018 to 2020
10% more economy seats
19 extra Y seats to 201 in 4-class 777: for 294 passengers.
28 extra Y seats to 296 in 3-class 777: for 368 passengers.
40 extra Y seats to 396 in regional 777: for 438 passengers.

Previous discussion on Cathay's decision to densify: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...er-row-44.html
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Old May 11, 19, 1:36 pm
  #196  
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Originally Posted by wheatbeer View Post
I need to fly LHR-HKG and back in a couple of weeks time and trying to decide whether to go CX or BA now that CX have gone 10 abreast? Wondering if the BA A380 would be more comfortable. Any advice on who to go with? I will be Oneworld Sapphire on the outbound and Ruby on the way back
I'd take BA tbh
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Old May 11, 19, 4:36 pm
  #197  
 
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take other airline.
i wont fly on CX 10 abrest even if someone paid for it. i did it once on short haul and never a chance in my lifetime even for short haul.
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Old May 12, 19, 6:54 am
  #198  
 
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Originally Posted by Unionruler View Post
Just fly QR or AY, or the A350 from LGW...

AY respects OWS for seat selection on SH (any booking class), and on LH so long as you are not on a Promo/ Lite fare.
I thought about QR or AY but was thinking direct to minimise journey time.

Does CX not offer emergency exit row for OWS and OWR for free?

Originally Posted by clubeurope View Post
I'd take BA tbh
Thanks, I am leaning more towards BA. Shame though as I really like the CX lounge at LHR T3 but some of the reports on CX 10 abreast are scaring me

Originally Posted by fakecd View Post
take other airline.
i wont fly on CX 10 abrest even if someone paid for it. i did it once on short haul and never a chance in my lifetime even for short haul.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Old May 12, 19, 10:17 pm
  #199  
 
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Originally Posted by wheatbeer View Post
I thought about QR or AY but was thinking direct to minimise journey time.

Does CX not offer emergency exit row for OWS and OWR for free?
9-abreast exit row is more comfortable than 10-abreast row

But seriously, the transfer in DOH/HEL is usually 50-70 min, they're really easy airports to transfer in, and you'd get more TPs/CPs flying 1-stop.
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Old May 12, 19, 11:03 pm
  #200  
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Originally Posted by fakecd View Post
take other airline.
i wont fly on CX 10 abreast even if someone paid for it. i did it once on short haul and never a chance in my lifetime even for short haul.
777 9 abreast is a relique of the past. Most airlines have moved to ten abreast on 777 (AF, EK, QR,LX,...). BA was the first one to introduce 10 abreast many, many years ago, but the market response was awful and they moved to 9. However they are now retrofitting to 10.
And 787 at 9 abreast is no better as the cabin is 38cm narrower. A350 9 abreast is better than 787 as A350 cabin is 12cm wider than 787.
Unless on an old plane, you will need to be paid to travel in Y.
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Old May 13, 19, 12:30 am
  #201  
 
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
777 9 abreast is a relique of the past. Most airlines have moved to ten abreast on 777 (AF, EK, QR,LX,...). BA was the first one to introduce 10 abreast many, many years ago, but the market response was awful and they moved to 9. However they are now retrofitting to 10.
And 787 at 9 abreast is no better as the cabin is 38cm narrower. A350 9 abreast is better than 787 as A350 cabin is 12cm wider than 787.
Unless on an old plane, you will need to be paid to travel in Y.
Exactly.

Let me first say, I sympathize with the true road warriors / travelers who fly in Y. I was there before and this "enhancement" must be dreadful.

But industry-wise, I don't see how it can be avoided. Passengers *on the whole* (maybe not people who read this forum, but tens of millions of other passengers) vote ruthlessly with their wallets. Save $25 USD to fly SFO-HKG in economy? Most pax "say" sure by paying up again and again. Airlines can easily see this data in the aggregate by just comparing yields, normalized for aircraft type and layout. The economy class yields don't lie. Passengers *on the whole* (again, not this forum) do not pay up enough to justify being 9 across vs 10 across and airlines that insist on sticking with 9 across are punished. Passengers on the whole like cheaper, period in economy class. I will add, for airlines like JAL with a significantly smaller international footprint, it might actually make economic sense for them to do so (I haven't seen their yields, but I do have EK, BA, AA and CX in hand...). But once you reach a certain size, you are competing on many of your routes with another big carrier, two or three, and it's not always nonstop traffic you're competing with. CX is giving up money, plain and simple, if they insist on 9 across and pretend customers pay up for it, when in reality they don't, overall. Like in Godfather I, when Tom Hagan is advising the Godfather to do the deal with Solozzo, if you don't do it, somebody else will, and they will use the money they earn to build up more power...and in our world, build up better products and services that attract even more customers.

EK is 10 across. They operate more 77Ws than anyone globally. CX is #2 . I'm actually surprised CX held out as long as they did. AF, QR, AA, BA, now BR, and god knows who else is 10 across. Unless you have a very specific footprint like JAL where O&D demand is sustained on every route (and even then, it frankly may be the wrong economic decision, but I am not privy to their numbers), it's not possible. CX is now a major competitor with QR and EK on European routes to Australia; part of the huge European increase the last 5-7 years has driven that. Similar to competing with AA (who not only operate 10 across 77Ws, but the jammed 9 across 787s, which is also standard these days) on North America to East and SE Asia.
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Old May 15, 19, 11:11 am
  #202  
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Yeh, even SQ has 9-abreast on their 787s, and almost guaranteed they'll have 10-abreast on 77X. Quite a pity really, especially given how awful those seats are.
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Old May 19, 19, 3:30 am
  #203  
 
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With 77G moving to 77K by 2020 sometime, is it fair to assume that a December 2019 flight to/from JNB is highly likely (as in around 90% likely by my math) to be 10 across in Y?

Somewhat related, is there any risk that CX drops the CPT route? Need to book CPT-HKG. Don't want to book CX and then find myself rerouted via JNB and the 77K.
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Old May 21, 19, 5:51 am
  #204  
 
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First time tried 10 cross with a neighbour.... never again.
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Old May 21, 19, 11:55 pm
  #205  
 
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Yep - Air Canada with their >450 seats on 773ER make out like bandits HKG-YVR. And it isn't that 9 abreast is luxury, so be uncomfortable for 12 hours vs be very uncomfortable for a cost savind
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Old May 22, 19, 6:43 am
  #206  
 
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Originally Posted by Ausriver View Post
First time tried 10 cross with a neighbour.... never again.
Yep. Once you experience it, you never do it again. I unbeknownst to me booked Emirates A380 London to Dubai, and then 777 to Brisbane via Singapore. I'd flown on BA's 777 in Y no problems. When I got onboard I was wondering why it felt very crowded. I had a centre aisle seat, but my seat neighbour was slightly chunky lady who clutched her hand bag for the majority of the flight. I ended up leaning into the aisle only to be constantly bumped by people and trolleys. To add more pain to the journey, we had a medical emergency and landed in Bangalore for 2 hours where we weren't allowed of the plane! I swore never again.

A couple of months ago I did an all A350 trip LGW-HKG-BNE/MEL-HKG-LGW and it was brilliant. I broke one of my rules of travelling where by we arrived back at London at dawn. I hate those flights, but we came off the A350 fairly refreshed with minimal jet lag. I was really surprised. My normal return point is Brisbane, so I'd need a long layover in HKG to make that trip all A350s.

Be interesting to see if the HKG - LHR will go 10 abreast soon. The 9am HKG departure is my preferred return flight, but no way in a 10 abreast plane. I'm telling all my friends and adding it to my travel blog.
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Old May 22, 19, 7:29 am
  #207  
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Was on a 3-4-3 regional 777-300 on Monday from HKG to TPE. Coming from Europe and having been on a fixed-shell regional before too, the refurbed-777 economy class is basically a first class regional seat in my books, and I much prefer it over the old-style fixed-shell seats.

On that note, not sure if this is a worthy tip. Given between 6-8pm, there are several wide-body CX/KA flights going from HKG to TPE totalling (with a mix of densified regional 777) 1200/1300 seats, the refurb'ed ones are an improvement given more capacity means emptier seats. At least it was in my case: originally having row 60, we requested to move (as a party of 2) to '3 seats with an empty middle seat' leading us to row 75. Onboard, I noticed that rows 74+ were filled with less than 4/5 people with 77+ being totally empty.

Last edited by CarefreeBA; May 24, 19 at 6:25 am Reason: Terminology
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Old May 22, 19, 9:22 am
  #208  
 
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Having flown 3-4-3 economy on 777s numerous times (albeit on QR, same Recaro CL3710 nonetheless), I can say the following:

It is not as bad as people make it out to be! The slimmer seats means bigger perceived legroom, which to most people (at least me) is more noticeable.

I weight train and work out, so have broader shoulders. 50% of my flights are full, even though I sit in the aisle seat, I don't feel I'm any closer to my neighbours as opposed to a 3-3-3 config 777. What I do is, I get a G&T before meal, 2 glasses of wine with meal, cognac + baileys after, that will knock me right out.

Little tip: the bottom portion of the headrest is an adjustable neck support. Pull on it and it will fold up. I find the CL3710 headrest the best amongst all the YCL seats I've flown and I've had the best sleep in them. Padding may 'look' thin but it's where it's needed.
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Old May 23, 19, 3:07 pm
  #209  
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Originally Posted by jkcl
The slimmer seats means bigger perceived legroom, which to most people (at least me) is more noticeable.
The locals (incl moi) here are short - Asian airlines can be more aggressive on the regional legroom.

Originally Posted by jkcl
I weight train and work out, so have broader shoulders.
Surprised with your experience. I'll take your body building into account.

Originally Posted by jkcl
50% of my flights are full, even though I sit in the aisle seat, I don't feel I'm any closer to my neighbours as opposed to a 3-3-3 config 777.
Maybe it's your seat neighbours? No chunky lady neighbours on full flights (at time of writing, I'm sitting next to a rather broadly built Peruvian gentleman on a LA A320 and I'm pulling my shoulders away. Fortunately only a 65 min flight.)

Originally Posted by jkcl
What I do is, I get a G&T before meal, 2 glasses of wine with meal, cognac + baileys after, that will knock me right out.
QR right? I think you'll struggle getting refills during the meal on CX. And pretty sure after dinner cognac is no longer part of CX Y meal service even for LH.
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Old May 23, 19, 3:12 pm
  #210  
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Originally Posted by CarefreeBA View Post
Was on a 3-4-3 regional 777-300 on Monday from HKG to TPE. Coming from Europe and having been on a fixed-shell regional before too, the refurbed-777 economy class is basically a first class regional seat in my books, and I much prefer it over the old-style cradle seats
Is there terminology confusion here?
Hard (fixed) shell: old regional 3-3-3 seat
Cradle: old long-haul 3-3-3 seat

if you're comparing between a hard shell and a CL3710, and are not affected by shoulder width, I follow what you mean.

Last edited by percysmith; May 23, 19 at 3:34 pm
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