ashsong

This thread is getting scary.

Infants / kids on aircrafts is, quite the issue.

ermen

​​​​​​nobody demanded one.

yeah indeed. The aim for me when travelling is for them not to cry overnight and wake the cabin up. Tried to explain that to ISM - ie if you move the baby they would cry. But she said crying baby is not the issue? But one of "fairness".

Actually i wasnt on the plane. Its much easier to post in the first person. But if i was on the plane and there was a spare seat and the ISM made up some fictionary policy, i stand my ground.


Anyway yeah - seems like this thread has run its course.
I think its a reasonable thing to be able to occupy a spare seat in the same class of cabin. More so in J, where nobody is realistically competing with you for the same amount of space.

ermen

​​​​​​the more i think of it - the more i feel it was just a bad ISM.
like you said, most crew are nice and practical and i certainly had not heard of this problem in all my flights with infants. And that would be the default route until this encounter which has certainly surprised me.

The thing is, what if you try to ask nicely, encounter a bad ISM who says no, due to "fairness policy". What do you do? You have lost your objective... (Actually in this case, if they really gave orders to not occupy the spare seat (and it was not needed for crew rest etc), I probably would ask for a comment form immediately)

As most people who have travelled w/ infants can attest, if there is a spare seat, the crew would normally help. So i do not see why in this case the ISM wanted to make a fuss in this case with a common request which is no way unreasonable. So i attribute it to bad customer svc.

watery

In what ground would you think your idea of "reasonably entitled to spare seat" less fictionary than the ISM's discretion?

I personally consider adjacent free seats as courtesy, if you get it you are grateful, if you don't that's about it. Receiving 100 times courtesy doesn't make it policy. An infant who has not been bought an adult business seat (technically) has claimed one - what makes it different from self-upgraders who have not bought a business seat then "reasonably entitled" a free seat there?

If one cannot calm the baby down during flight, the baby is probably too young to fly. Think those who claim to have health conditions and they would "certainly feel better if allowed more space".

If I had seen such situation where the ISM is being complained against, I'm almost certain I'd write a counter-complaint to explain the situation.

kaka

Report this ism
basis 1) go move the person on econoflat first
basis 2) rude
basis 3) liar fa

TravelwhileyouEat

You decided to travel with an infant and must accept that airlines need not give empty seats to your party as courtesy. I am in no way saying people with infants should not travel, but should they choose to, they should not expect special treatment that is not part of policy (i.e. they can expect priority boarding but not that an empty seat near them can be used by them).

In this case you can always report the ISM, but I personally don't think that she did anything wrong.

bhyq

Just my two cents worth. On balance I'd say it would have been polite/prudent/fair to ask the cabin crew if the nearby seat was spare, and if it's possible to use it for the infant. 9/10 the ISM will agree to your request, a quiet happy baby is good for all ! On the off chance that they decline (for whatever reason) then so be it, you paid for two seats plus an infant and that's what you had. As cabin managers it's their perogative to do as they see fit, and perhaps by not asking you created hassle for yourself?

Id also suggest that bagging an extra seat for comfort or whatever in economy is a totally different scenario in business or even first class.

Fly2Where

huh??
Maybe I am clear, I am JUST referring your intention, since you are not even on the flight as you mentioned.
IF you put a baby on an empty seat, have no intention get permission from crew; when ISM request you to remove the baby, you will refuse and ignore. What is a better word to discribe this situation?

Maybe "squatter".... I dont know, I just ran out of words.

ermen

actually it is countering stupidity and b/s head on.
if this happened to me, I will reason and if necessary push back. but stupidity and unreasonableness deserves to be countered head on.

running a logical decision tree:
Qn: Are pax allowed to occupy unoccupied seats?

A: Yes
- case close ISM being unreasonable and not following policy.

A: No
- ok show me the policy? and let us publicize it widely in no uncertain terms.

A: Maybe - ISM discretion
--- if allowed -> good customer service (deserve compliment)
--- if disallowed -> bad customer service (deserve complaint)


ok so let us run this further.. i will ask the ISM. and if s/he says yes, i will say great thank you i will be sure to write a compliment for your crew.
if s/he says no, i will say please hand me complaint form.

actually - what does this boil down to? bad customer service. and thankfully i have never encountered such an assinine "policy" or ISM on my other what 30+ CX J sector with infant, so this boils down to an anomaly.

Fly2Where

just wow... you already wrote your policy, and did your diligence. CX policy or not, who cares? You paid what you get? Who cares? Each J seat has a price tag, who cares? They are doing their job? Who cares? They earned just a bit higher than minimum wage. Who cares? They are just servant, deserved to be abused.
As long as I have an infant, the world owed me.

IF THIS IS THE WORLD I LIVED,
Next time I go to dunkin donut, I am going buy one donut ask for additional for free or a complaint form, they should provide good customer service, they are governed by francise. They made so many donut and probably wont sold out anyway, yes, this "should" be the policy.

Why dunkin donut? Show me a policy why I cant compare donut with airlines. Anyway, who cares? I just like donut.

Good luck!

dope

redacted

Fly2Where

Just want to add, I dont think its ISM's job to show you the policy, but rather, they have the very right to ask you to produce a ticket that allows you to occupy a seat.

sorry... enough... I am sick of myself now.

TravelwhileyouEat

I spoke with someone I know who used to work at CX, he said that the official policy at the time is that passengers are entitled to the number of seats purchased for class of travel regardless of cabin class. This does not surprise me as I am sure most airlines have the same policy (otherwise inventory management would go bonkers).

This means occupying the empty seat is a courtesy extended by the crew and not a right that can be demanded because it is 'reasonable, convenient, is common sense, or is good customer service'. There are many things in life that I wish would happen because it makes my life more convenient and I personally find 'reasonable and common sense'. At the end of the day, you can't always get your way and you need to accept that some things are out of your control (i.e. if the ISM really wanted to she could have reported you for not following crew instructions... which I imagine is not a convenient experience)

LoveHateRelationship

I can see why you're upset and while you didn't pay for an additional seat, really that empty seat has no real value once the doors close since they can't sell them anymore.

I'd say this is akin to an empty Y cabin and people spreading across rows to sleep. Nobody says anything about it and quite frankly, most(?) crew encourage people to spread out and take a whole row for themselves. How is that any different than taking an empty J seat?

FlyPointyEnd

I don't think this was a case of a passenger encountering a bad ISM, in fact reading through the posts here it's more likely that an ISM has encountered a bad passenger...

Sitting on a seat that is not yours is clearly against policy. (your boarding pass would show you which seat you are entitled to, common sense) I think it was clear in the beginning that OP occupied 11G without asking permission and yes you need to ask permission if you wish to occupy an extra seat or switch seats.