New MPC club points chart effective 8 Dec 17 for CXKA
Nov 2, 2017, 9:51 pm
#31
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 192
This seems better for everyone but me! I'm a medium-long PEY regular flyer. MEL-HKG return in W or R still gives me 90 club points. I need 7 of those a year to make Gold.
It's a bit crap given that S/Q/N on the same route now gets 40 club points when they are paying 1/4 or 1/5 what I do.
If only MEL was 400 miles further away from HKG, I would be getting 140 club points per roundtrip.
It's a bit crap given that S/Q/N on the same route now gets 40 club points when they are paying 1/4 or 1/5 what I do.
If only MEL was 400 miles further away from HKG, I would be getting 140 club points per roundtrip.
Nov 2, 2017, 9:57 pm
#33
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: HKG
Programs: CX DM, SPG Pt, Le Club Accor GO, Shangri-La GC Jade
Posts: 1,327
First my impression is "We are too simple, always naive" to hope that CX really knows the problem...
I tend to agree that this fixed some problem, particularly from the prospect of "yield", but still not hitting the bulls eye
To me it's definitely a welcome change as I just managed to get 1205 CPs last membership year by flying to PEK and PVG / SHA most, and using a few ultra long flights to "save" the bunch of "ultra-short" flights average CPs shortage (15 CPs per flight converted from the old 80 sectors)
The only issue that I have is why they don't take this opportunity to introduce "renewal benefit" which can simply be the same mid-tier benefit of the lower tier for those who managed to renew the membership... By doing so actually CX can consider to raise the DM mid-tier benefit threshold as well
Frankly, yield-wise YBH even K should be higher than E in most if not all cases, thus giving same CPs for E and YBHK is already over generous for E. Nonetheless I understand that this might be a strategy to tempt people to move to the premium cabin... Anyway
Agree. By cutting ultra-short and short at 750 has already kicked some high yield corporate Y flyer out of the game (e.g. HGH, NKG are both 1 hour high speed train distance to Shanghai... But HGH and NKG are ultra-short, together with TPE actually I'd say, making a lot of previously sector based member falling out of their original tier). I guess CX does notice this problem after the change thus making such change
Let's face it, ex-HKG R fare sometimes gives CX higher yield than ex-outport D and I fare. I'd say this is a balanced decision without significantly revamp the entire system again
For marginalized route... There's quite a lot and no matter how the system design there would be some... So... I think this is sad but unavoidable
Except that long haul SNQ flyer can renew by flying once now v.s. 4 sector hard (but not enforced) rule as before (GR renewal didn't have miles based criteria before)... Actually one round trip PEK / PVG on SNQ already can renew GR....
I tend to agree that this fixed some problem, particularly from the prospect of "yield", but still not hitting the bulls eye
To me it's definitely a welcome change as I just managed to get 1205 CPs last membership year by flying to PEK and PVG / SHA most, and using a few ultra long flights to "save" the bunch of "ultra-short" flights average CPs shortage (15 CPs per flight converted from the old 80 sectors)
The only issue that I have is why they don't take this opportunity to introduce "renewal benefit" which can simply be the same mid-tier benefit of the lower tier for those who managed to renew the membership... By doing so actually CX can consider to raise the DM mid-tier benefit threshold as well
First, let's be honest: these changes were necessary. No, I don't fly Y or PEY long-haul (although I do sometimes buy regional PEY tickets), but it was idiotic to punish the higher-yielding Y and PEY fliers. I don't think any Diamond member based in Hong Kong could argue with a straight face that it's fair to exclude those people from the CX lounges and hopefully this mints a few more GOs and yes DMs because of it. I could care less if we have more actually loyal CX fliers / payers in the lounges they deserve it.
...
I'm not arguing too hard here, just curious for others' thinking. First, I think a lot of corporate travelers will make it to DM even easier. Although DM ain't an easy program by the standards of Oneworld Emerald, it is still fairly "easy" for anyone at a HK financial firm with a J / F class travel package to hit DM since you are rewarded for biz flights. This will make it even easier for them to score DM.
Second, I'd love to see some additional incentives for 2,400...aka double DM. I've already seen my own patterns shift to "try and hit 1,200 points" to "try and hit 1,800" points once they added the mid-tier incentives. A 2,400 level would make me keep spending on CX I think.
...
I'm not arguing too hard here, just curious for others' thinking. First, I think a lot of corporate travelers will make it to DM even easier. Although DM ain't an easy program by the standards of Oneworld Emerald, it is still fairly "easy" for anyone at a HK financial firm with a J / F class travel package to hit DM since you are rewarded for biz flights. This will make it even easier for them to score DM.
Second, I'd love to see some additional incentives for 2,400...aka double DM. I've already seen my own patterns shift to "try and hit 1,200 points" to "try and hit 1,800" points once they added the mid-tier incentives. A 2,400 level would make me keep spending on CX I think.
This is exactly what I mean but much better worded.^
I can agree on the changes for the bottom fare class row (SNQ), but sweetening band 1-2 and ignoring long haul premium cabins is just puzzling. Well, since DI is unchanged and R is sweetened, does CX want me to buy R instead of DI to get my $ per CP's worth?
And I still feel sorry for those that do the marginalized routes like DXB and LAX.
I can agree on the changes for the bottom fare class row (SNQ), but sweetening band 1-2 and ignoring long haul premium cabins is just puzzling. Well, since DI is unchanged and R is sweetened, does CX want me to buy R instead of DI to get my $ per CP's worth?
And I still feel sorry for those that do the marginalized routes like DXB and LAX.For marginalized route... There's quite a lot and no matter how the system design there would be some... So... I think this is sad but unavoidable
Except that long haul SNQ flyer can renew by flying once now v.s. 4 sector hard (but not enforced) rule as before (GR renewal didn't have miles based criteria before)... Actually one round trip PEK / PVG on SNQ already can renew GR....
Nov 2, 2017, 10:27 pm
#34
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, Marco Polo Gold
Posts: 1,084
Hey Cathay, after reading this I got a new proposal for you. Admit you've totally messed up and do away with the points system, go back to the original miles system, and just make it harder to attain across the board: DM = 180K miles, GO = 90K, SL = 45K. With "enhancement" of mid-tier benefits.
Same results, you wouldn't force an exodus of your program, keep your low-fare flyers, keep your premium-fare Y flyers, make your elites happy as less "fake" DM/GOs in the lounge, etc. etc.
You've butch the system, caused a mass exodus, and now throws out a band-aid fix that favorites low-fare flyers, the same reason your elites got upset with you and bail in the first place. So basically, you've done nothing but go back to the old flaws. Great one Cathay.
Same results, you wouldn't force an exodus of your program, keep your low-fare flyers, keep your premium-fare Y flyers, make your elites happy as less "fake" DM/GOs in the lounge, etc. etc.
You've butch the system, caused a mass exodus, and now throws out a band-aid fix that favorites low-fare flyers, the same reason your elites got upset with you and bail in the first place. So basically, you've done nothing but go back to the old flaws. Great one Cathay.
Nov 2, 2017, 10:28 pm
#35
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 60
As someone HK based whose flying is close to the Diamond threshold each year this definitely helps, especially the business short haul tweaks (mostly work trips). Made DM last year but might not this year and had been thinking about maybe moving earning over to AA or BA.
It also makes ex-TPE/ex-MNL/ex-BKK etc. routes that much more interesting for personal long haul travel.
It also makes ex-TPE/ex-MNL/ex-BKK etc. routes that much more interesting for personal long haul travel.
Nov 2, 2017, 10:28 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, Marco Polo Gold
Posts: 1,084
So is now Cathay sending a message "we got these D, I fare flyers, so no cookies for them." Guess it will take an exodus of D,I fare flyers such as myself for them to "fix" the points chart one year later.
Nov 2, 2017, 11:04 pm
#37
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TPE / HSZ
Programs: CX GO (=SPH), IHG Diamond Amb, Hertz 5*, Accor, Hilton, National
Posts: 6,437
First, let's be honest: these changes were necessary. No, I don't fly Y or PEY long-haul (although I do sometimes buy regional PEY tickets), but it was idiotic to punish the higher-yielding Y and PEY fliers. I don't think any Diamond member based in Hong Kong could argue with a straight face that it's fair to exclude those people from the CX lounges and hopefully this mints a few more GOs and yes DMs because of it. I could care less if we have more actually loyal CX fliers / payers in the lounges they deserve it.
Second, if I'm nitpicking. I can see a *lot* of new DM members being minted. I already fly at a clip of about 2,500-3,600 CP/year, although last year I burned award points to avoid going much over 1,800, when I can issue a companion GO. I also fly plenty of CX's competitors. I fly J and F long-haul, and generally J and now some PEY short-haul (and btw regional PEY is fantastic for a few hours). What this means for me is I will hit 1,800 points faster. And realistically, unless CX sweetens MPC it probably means I might burn more award points and spend less?! Just a little bit here is the logic.
This year, I've done about 1,500 CP in just shy of 6 months. I'm already actively trying to burn award tickets and fly competitors but even then, it looks virtually impossible for me not to do 1,800 points in 7-8 months.
Next year, if I did the identical flying patterns of this year, it would've been impossible for me not to hit that 1,800 level 1-2 months faster. Aka, I would've hit 1,800 CP in about 5-6 months under the new points regime. The reason is I've done a lot of regional J flying, including some in C and J. As well as some regional sectors in W class. I guess my question is, what's next?
I'm not arguing too hard here, just curious for others' thinking. First, I think a lot of corporate travelers will make it to DM even easier. Although DM ain't an easy program by the standards of Oneworld Emerald, it is still fairly "easy" for anyone at a HK financial firm with a J / F class travel package to hit DM since you are rewarded for biz flights. This will make it even easier for them to score DM.
Second, I'd love to see some additional incentives for 2,400...aka double DM. I've already seen my own patterns shift to "try and hit 1,200 points" to "try and hit 1,800" points once they added the mid-tier incentives. A 2,400 level would make me keep spending on CX I think.
Second, if I'm nitpicking. I can see a *lot* of new DM members being minted. I already fly at a clip of about 2,500-3,600 CP/year, although last year I burned award points to avoid going much over 1,800, when I can issue a companion GO. I also fly plenty of CX's competitors. I fly J and F long-haul, and generally J and now some PEY short-haul (and btw regional PEY is fantastic for a few hours). What this means for me is I will hit 1,800 points faster. And realistically, unless CX sweetens MPC it probably means I might burn more award points and spend less?! Just a little bit here is the logic.
This year, I've done about 1,500 CP in just shy of 6 months. I'm already actively trying to burn award tickets and fly competitors but even then, it looks virtually impossible for me not to do 1,800 points in 7-8 months.
Next year, if I did the identical flying patterns of this year, it would've been impossible for me not to hit that 1,800 level 1-2 months faster. Aka, I would've hit 1,800 CP in about 5-6 months under the new points regime. The reason is I've done a lot of regional J flying, including some in C and J. As well as some regional sectors in W class. I guess my question is, what's next?
I'm not arguing too hard here, just curious for others' thinking. First, I think a lot of corporate travelers will make it to DM even easier. Although DM ain't an easy program by the standards of Oneworld Emerald, it is still fairly "easy" for anyone at a HK financial firm with a J / F class travel package to hit DM since you are rewarded for biz flights. This will make it even easier for them to score DM.
Second, I'd love to see some additional incentives for 2,400...aka double DM. I've already seen my own patterns shift to "try and hit 1,200 points" to "try and hit 1,800" points once they added the mid-tier incentives. A 2,400 level would make me keep spending on CX I think.
This was a surprise to me, as it used to be that only V class or above counts. If just a reversion, since V class now earn at least 10 pts per sector, the threshold should be 40 pts. With SNQ flyers (especially long-haul) probably gaining the most under the enhanced system, I think this is a signal that CX really starts to value SNQ flyers now.
Nov 2, 2017, 11:13 pm
#38
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 131
That explains why I've been near SL every year for the past couple of years! 
That plus me choosing *A over OW for my other trips.
@sxc, good point about the 4 sector requirement. CX admits its mistake!
That plus me choosing *A over OW for my other trips.@sxc, good point about the 4 sector requirement. CX admits its mistake!
Nov 2, 2017, 11:22 pm
#39
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
Hey Cathay, after reading this I got a new proposal for you. Admit you've totally messed up and do away with the points system, go back to the original miles system, and just make it harder to attain across the board: DM = 180K miles, GO = 90K, SL = 45K. With "enhancement" of mid-tier benefits.
I'll add I'm a fan of your heightened tier thresholds. But I realize that won't be popular with less active flyers.
to your point about D and I, it's more complicated than you perhaps indicate. Tons of D and I tickets are from outports, and these travelers are basically enjoying easy street in the CX points game. This includes TPE, mainland China, even ex-USA tickets. Guys buying D and I ex Shanghai as an extreme case get +250 points round trip to the US. Some outport I fares are in the neighborhood of 2.5k USD. Meanwhile ex-HKG W and R fares are often more expensive. To credit more to D and I is dangerous because of the extreme amount of cheapo outport business tickets in the D and I bucket. There could be even more serious dilution if you're further rewarding guys from buying cheapo MNL tickets and ex-HKG flyers, guys with far deeper wallets on average than the ex-MNL/TPE/etc. flyer, start going elsewhere.
The premium economy and regionally boost is clearly aimed at the ex-HKG traveler IMO. I regularly buy one way tickets ex HKG (in the last 6 months for example I've purchased full fare F, J and W tickets to various regional destinations). These regional tickets are more expensive than some longhaul D and I fares where guys are accumulating literally 5x+ the amount of points in some circumstances for equal or less spend. I don't mind because I am "blessed" (in forums like this...."cursed" in reality) with the need to fly far more than I know what to do with my club points. But it would be annoying if my travel was cut down by 75pct and I was on the fringe of some status level.
Anyway what I'm saying is a lot of D and I fares already have it damn good since they have cheaper fares and extra sectors.
Again this change isn't perfect but it's about time CX recognized that yes ex-HKG flyers are the ones paying the bills. You make an argument elsewhere I'm also sympathetic to, which is that ex-HKG should have some damn D and I fares. I couldn't agree more! But at least recognize that extra points for J and C fare is the other side of the same coin you're arguing for about opening up D/I for HK flyers.
Also, I will say this is probably CX admitting LLCs are hurting them. And CX is no longer willing to stand by idly and pretend CX is superior (note to CX: all the cuts to F&B across the board, 33P configuration, downgrades to KA catering, lower staff to pax ratio in planes like 77G and 33P: we the paying customer notice). This is CX saying okay, we will compete for those passengers because they are valuable and we are losing them. And maybe CX can draw in marginal LCC flyers, wealthy folks who maybe prefer to fly cheaply, but would consider paying a little more to stay loyal to CX if it meant eventually getting lounge access etc. But then, CX must come through on its offer of a superior on board experience. IFE is excellent but F&B has gone to hell, crew morale is very low, and that is all caused by CX's cost efforts (which really come down to just Swire and/or management trying to play hedge fund manager with oil prices). This is all a shame.
Anyway, this is the true spirit of a loyalty program, to compete for dollars. It's what always drives me nuts with CX's bending over backwards for corporate travelers, because corporates are already a captive audience and the flyer isn't the spender. I used to be one. Giving guys at the margin like those in SNQ buckets is precisely why award programs exist in the first place. Not to just hand out goodies to corporate flyers. Even senior folks at a bank often have zero say into where their travel dollars go. The correct way to compete with corporates is offer cash rebates to the company, in increasing percentages as the company spends more. NOT dilute your loyalty program which really is supposed to compete for the spender. Of course senior corporate flyers will always get high levels of elite status. But it shouldn't be so easy that they're guaranteed, because in most cases these dollars AREN'T loyal...the passenger loses status when he loses the job. And the company just sticks someone else in his slot. The company should get a bigger piece of the reward.
This is a tangent and my meaning is I'm glad to see CX using MPC to compete. My overall feeling is these changes are positive.
Last edited by QRC3288; Nov 2, 2017 at 11:33 pm
Nov 3, 2017, 12:03 am
#40
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: AAdvantage Asia Miles Air China
Posts: 870
Finger meet dyke (The Dutch type!)
This is probably about retention rather than bringing back those who have left.
Under this revised points system I would be maintaining Diamond each year, but I have little faith in CX. When business gets better, what incentive do they have NOT to go after the PEY/Y Diamonds/Golds again?
Thing is it is too late for me, I have gone and will not be coming back.
I have found since switching to AA that there are far more options because I can either use my money more effectively, or alternatively save dollars.
And the irony is just received a nice new black card for the end of the first annual holiday, and it was 'Card meet bin (the rubbish type)'.
This is probably about retention rather than bringing back those who have left.
Under this revised points system I would be maintaining Diamond each year, but I have little faith in CX. When business gets better, what incentive do they have NOT to go after the PEY/Y Diamonds/Golds again?
Thing is it is too late for me, I have gone and will not be coming back.
I have found since switching to AA that there are far more options because I can either use my money more effectively, or alternatively save dollars.
And the irony is just received a nice new black card for the end of the first annual holiday, and it was 'Card meet bin (the rubbish type)'.
Nov 3, 2017, 12:17 am
#41
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
This change also practically means there will be less F class partner awards. Due to easier hitting 1600 CP.
simple math:
Demand
*10-20k DM, will use 15k. =15k
*Say 1/3 of DMs hit 1600 CP already, aka 4x system-wide upgrades. =5k DMs getting certs.
*4x certs per eligible DAM = 20k certs issued.
*Say 25pct expire unused = 15k certs to be used.
*Say 1/2 used on J to F =7.5k rounding up to 8k certs used J to F in one year.
Supply*Approx 20 F flights daily one way, = 40x F sectors flown daily approx.
*6 seats per cabin = 240 F seats per day.
*365 days a year = 87,600 F seats per year.
My bet is somewhere around 10% of F seats go to DM mid-tier benefits, which no doubt already flowed through to partner inventory. If it's easier to get 1600, perhaps 12-15pct of F seats end up allocated this way, or approaching one per flight.
simple math:
Demand
*10-20k DM, will use 15k. =15k
*Say 1/3 of DMs hit 1600 CP already, aka 4x system-wide upgrades. =5k DMs getting certs.
*4x certs per eligible DAM = 20k certs issued.
*Say 25pct expire unused = 15k certs to be used.
*Say 1/2 used on J to F =7.5k rounding up to 8k certs used J to F in one year.
Supply*Approx 20 F flights daily one way, = 40x F sectors flown daily approx.
*6 seats per cabin = 240 F seats per day.
*365 days a year = 87,600 F seats per year.
My bet is somewhere around 10% of F seats go to DM mid-tier benefits, which no doubt already flowed through to partner inventory. If it's easier to get 1600, perhaps 12-15pct of F seats end up allocated this way, or approaching one per flight.
Nov 3, 2017, 12:47 am
#42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,421
[QUOTE=QRC3288;29012214]
The only reason CX made cuts in economy is because when CX was superior in economy passengers were abandoning them for LCC competitors.
If passengers rewarded CX with their money for better service, CX would not have cut.
Passengers by and large prefer Air Asia/HK airlines/express to CX
They do not like entertainment, wifi, good food, brushes, socks, Friendly service, reliability, SAFETY!, or good disaster managment.
So why should CX have continued to provide this when passegers want to be treated like crap?!
The only reason CX made cuts in economy is because when CX was superior in economy passengers were abandoning them for LCC competitors.
If passengers rewarded CX with their money for better service, CX would not have cut.
Passengers by and large prefer Air Asia/HK airlines/express to CX
They do not like entertainment, wifi, good food, brushes, socks, Friendly service, reliability, SAFETY!, or good disaster managment.
So why should CX have continued to provide this when passegers want to be treated like crap?!
Nov 3, 2017, 12:56 am
#43
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: HKG
Programs: CX DM, SPG Pt, Le Club Accor GO, Shangri-La GC Jade
Posts: 1,327
This change also practically means there will be less F class partner awards. Due to easier hitting 1600 CP.
simple math:
Demand
*10-20k DM, will use 15k. =15k
*Say 1/3 of DMs hit 1600 CP already, aka 4x system-wide upgrades. =5k DMs getting certs.
*4x certs per eligible DAM = 20k certs issued.
*Say 25pct expire unused = 15k certs to be used.
*Say 1/2 used on J to F =7.5k rounding up to 8k certs used J to F in one year.
Supply*Approx 20 F flights daily one way, = 40x F sectors flown daily approx.
*6 seats per cabin = 240 F seats per day.
*365 days a year = 87,600 F seats per year.
My bet is somewhere around 10% of F seats go to DM mid-tier benefits, which no doubt already flowed through to partner inventory. If it's easier to get 1600, perhaps 12-15pct of F seats end up allocated this way, or approaching one per flight.
simple math:
Demand
*10-20k DM, will use 15k. =15k
*Say 1/3 of DMs hit 1600 CP already, aka 4x system-wide upgrades. =5k DMs getting certs.
*4x certs per eligible DAM = 20k certs issued.
*Say 25pct expire unused = 15k certs to be used.
*Say 1/2 used on J to F =7.5k rounding up to 8k certs used J to F in one year.
Supply*Approx 20 F flights daily one way, = 40x F sectors flown daily approx.
*6 seats per cabin = 240 F seats per day.
*365 days a year = 87,600 F seats per year.
My bet is somewhere around 10% of F seats go to DM mid-tier benefits, which no doubt already flowed through to partner inventory. If it's easier to get 1600, perhaps 12-15pct of F seats end up allocated this way, or approaching one per flight.
Nov 3, 2017, 2:15 am
#44
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: MP, BR
Posts: 375
Nov 3, 2017, 2:34 am
#45
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 192
MEL-HKG return in PEY on CX metal gets you 60 Qantas status credits vs 90 Cathay club points.
Of course if you fly Qantas metal, MEL-HKG return in PEY gets you 140 Qantas status credits. You get Gold after 5 trips. But then you are putting up with an inferior flight schedule just for status, seems like the tail wagging the dog.