Regional equipment swaps & involuntary downgrades
Aug 2, 2017, 11:14 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 192
Regional equipment swaps & involuntary downgrades
I have a spare weekend coming up in September and I thought I might go to TPE for a couple of days. The trip is partly motivated by seeing TPE but mostly motivated as a chance to experience CX first class, including the Pier First lounge. I travel J a lot but I've never travelled in F (I mostly travel to Australia which doesn't have F).
I would be booking using Asiamiles.
Anyway, I understand that CX regularly springs equipment swaps on HKG-TPE, and if that happens, I could well be downgraded to J class.
If that happens, what is the situation with:
I ask because if it turns out that I am going to end up in regional J and have no Pier First access, I might well decide not to go at all. I wouldn't be too upset but I would want a refund.
I checked the Cathay Conditions of Carriage, it looks like involuntary downgrades are entitled to compensation but not a right to cancel. Nothing about lounge access.
I understand that Award bookings can be cancelled for 120USD or 12000 Asiamiles - does CX ever waive this if you cancel after an involuntary downgrade? Some articles online talk about CX offering a standard compensation of 1500HKD - seems it would be cheaper for them to just waive the cancellation fee.
I would be booking using Asiamiles.
Anyway, I understand that CX regularly springs equipment swaps on HKG-TPE, and if that happens, I could well be downgraded to J class.
If that happens, what is the situation with:
- cancellation - can you cancel your ticket?
- refunds - if you decide to take the flight, will they refund the points difference or provide some other compensation?
- lounge access - can I still get into Pier First?
I ask because if it turns out that I am going to end up in regional J and have no Pier First access, I might well decide not to go at all. I wouldn't be too upset but I would want a refund.
I checked the Cathay Conditions of Carriage, it looks like involuntary downgrades are entitled to compensation but not a right to cancel. Nothing about lounge access.
I understand that Award bookings can be cancelled for 120USD or 12000 Asiamiles - does CX ever waive this if you cancel after an involuntary downgrade? Some articles online talk about CX offering a standard compensation of 1500HKD - seems it would be cheaper for them to just waive the cancellation fee.
Last edited by lionelhutz; Aug 2, 2017 at 11:34 pm
Aug 2, 2017, 11:34 pm
#2
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
Not for free
points difference if you paid by AM, maybe a measly amount of cash/vouchers if you press
No, and frankly the difference between Pier F and J is not -that- big. 
Your best bet is to fly CX474 as it seldom gets swapped. But seldom does not mean never. 'Never' is for HND
refunds - if you decide to take the flight, will they refund the points difference or provide some other compensation?
lounge access - can I still get into Pier First?
Your best bet is to fly CX474 as it seldom gets swapped. But seldom does not mean never. 'Never' is for HND
Aug 2, 2017, 11:39 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 192
Yeah, but I go to Pier J all the time, I want to see the exciting world of Pier F.
Thanks for the tip - but CX474 is early morning, was looking at CX472 mid afternoon to maximise my Pier F time!
Thanks for the tip - but CX474 is early morning, was looking at CX472 mid afternoon to maximise my Pier F time!
Aug 3, 2017, 1:45 am
#4
Join Date: May 2016
Location: HKG
Programs: CX DM, SQ Gold
Posts: 81
If you are really keen on Pier F, why not give the 'Lounge meet-up thread' a shot to see if any of the nice DMs or EMs can tag you along when you travel next?
Aug 3, 2017, 11:40 am
#5
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
Aug 3, 2017, 2:23 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold, AA 1MM lifetime gold, Starwood gold, Marriott Gold Elite
Posts: 719
Four years ago, we had booked CX F HKG-BKK on a BA Avios redemption. The aircraft was changed to one without F. None of us had emerald status at the time but we did ask for and get F lounge access at HKG for that flight and also for a HKG-LHR J booking a few days later. We got the Avios difference back from BA, albeit 6 months later and BA threw in 20,000 Avios extra for their part in the delay in refund. So all in all, it was an excellent result.
Aug 3, 2017, 10:36 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 192
Thanks all. Booked the flights. Of the 6 first seats, 5 were already blocked on the seat map so hopefully having a full complement of F pax will somewhat reduce the chances of an equipment swap.
I can see from the flight records that equipment swaps happen 1-2 times a week on CX472, so fingers crossed I catch a break. At least the odds are in my favour. Honestly, as long as I could get into Pier F, I could handle the downgrade.
The plan is to hit the Pier F lounge about midday and have a leisurely lunch and foot massage before a 3:25pm departure. It's on the day of the Aussie Rules grand final so I'll settle down in the lounge with a few Betsy beers and watch that on my phone (or the TV if they'll switch it to Australia Plus). If any AFL fans are travelling that day, I'll see you there!
Oh yeah, then I get a couple of days in Taipei, that will be fun too.
Interesting side note - according to the internets, equipment swaps ARE grounds for a refund under the AA Conditions of Carriage. But not CX.
I can see from the flight records that equipment swaps happen 1-2 times a week on CX472, so fingers crossed I catch a break. At least the odds are in my favour. Honestly, as long as I could get into Pier F, I could handle the downgrade.
The plan is to hit the Pier F lounge about midday and have a leisurely lunch and foot massage before a 3:25pm departure. It's on the day of the Aussie Rules grand final so I'll settle down in the lounge with a few Betsy beers and watch that on my phone (or the TV if they'll switch it to Australia Plus). If any AFL fans are travelling that day, I'll see you there!
Oh yeah, then I get a couple of days in Taipei, that will be fun too.
Interesting side note - according to the internets, equipment swaps ARE grounds for a refund under the AA Conditions of Carriage. But not CX.
Oct 5, 2017, 3:46 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 192
Well, I did the trip and it was amazing, highly recommend using points for a cheap first class jaunt to Taipei.
The Pier F lounge dining room is incredible, the food is restaurant quality. I hate it when people take photos of food but the raspberry macaron dessert was one of the best desserts I ever seen. The rest of the lounge is basically like Pier J with fewer people.
No equipment swaps, got seat 1A both ways. Such a comfortable seat, embarrassingly big. I think I actually prefer the service in J, the staff were so attentive in F that my movie kept getting interrupted by requests to top up my glass etc.
Inflight food was obviously a scaled down version of the longhaul first meal service, but still very impressive, a cut above J.
Flights were delayed both ways but hard to care when you're in a nice lounge.
Taipei CX lounge was nice but short on food. The noodle bar was the only food available, no buffet options either Western or Chinese.
Oh, and Taipei was very nice too. Stayed at the Holiday Inn East Taipei on IHG points so the whole weekend cost me nothing except train fares and spending money.
The Pier F lounge dining room is incredible, the food is restaurant quality. I hate it when people take photos of food but the raspberry macaron dessert was one of the best desserts I ever seen. The rest of the lounge is basically like Pier J with fewer people.
No equipment swaps, got seat 1A both ways. Such a comfortable seat, embarrassingly big. I think I actually prefer the service in J, the staff were so attentive in F that my movie kept getting interrupted by requests to top up my glass etc.
Inflight food was obviously a scaled down version of the longhaul first meal service, but still very impressive, a cut above J.
Flights were delayed both ways but hard to care when you're in a nice lounge.
Taipei CX lounge was nice but short on food. The noodle bar was the only food available, no buffet options either Western or Chinese.
Oh, and Taipei was very nice too. Stayed at the Holiday Inn East Taipei on IHG points so the whole weekend cost me nothing except train fares and spending money.
Oct 5, 2017, 7:30 am
#9
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ...
Programs: CX DM / SQ PPS / VN Platinum
Posts: 1,078
Well, I did the trip and it was amazing, highly recommend using points for a cheap first class jaunt to Taipei.
The Pier F lounge dining room is incredible, the food is restaurant quality. I hate it when people take photos of food but the raspberry macaron dessert was one of the best desserts I ever seen. The rest of the lounge is basically like Pier J with fewer people.
No equipment swaps, got seat 1A both ways. Such a comfortable seat, embarrassingly big. I think I actually prefer the service in J, the staff were so attentive in F that my movie kept getting interrupted by requests to top up my glass etc.
Inflight food was obviously a scaled down version of the longhaul first meal service, but still very impressive, a cut above J.
Flights were delayed both ways but hard to care when you're in a nice lounge.
Taipei CX lounge was nice but short on food. The noodle bar was the only food available, no buffet options either Western or Chinese.
Oh, and Taipei was very nice too. Stayed at the Holiday Inn East Taipei on IHG points so the whole weekend cost me nothing except train fares and spending money.
The Pier F lounge dining room is incredible, the food is restaurant quality. I hate it when people take photos of food but the raspberry macaron dessert was one of the best desserts I ever seen. The rest of the lounge is basically like Pier J with fewer people.
No equipment swaps, got seat 1A both ways. Such a comfortable seat, embarrassingly big. I think I actually prefer the service in J, the staff were so attentive in F that my movie kept getting interrupted by requests to top up my glass etc.
Inflight food was obviously a scaled down version of the longhaul first meal service, but still very impressive, a cut above J.
Flights were delayed both ways but hard to care when you're in a nice lounge.
Taipei CX lounge was nice but short on food. The noodle bar was the only food available, no buffet options either Western or Chinese.
Oh, and Taipei was very nice too. Stayed at the Holiday Inn East Taipei on IHG points so the whole weekend cost me nothing except train fares and spending money.
Glad you didn't get hit with a swap, and enjoyed the trip.
^
Oct 6, 2017, 12:28 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,284
Oct 6, 2017, 12:32 am
#11
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,284
Oct 6, 2017, 1:16 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,405
Oct 9, 2017, 6:02 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 192
I'm pretty sure the portions are bigger. And on the outward flight I had an excellent mushroom pasta that was better than anything I've had in J. If I see it on the J menu, I'm ordering it.
Oct 9, 2017, 7:22 pm
#14
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,284
sorry yes portions are slightly bigger in F, but not by much IMO. F always has a vegetarian option even on regional which is normally a pasta dish.
Oct 17, 2017, 11:23 pm
#15
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,284
Redeemed J-F upgrade from my ICN-HKG flight this November and was just told that due to operational reasons there has been an aircraft switch and as such I need to be downgraded to J. I sent in a complaint via the online form and recently got this reply from CRD...
Seems like the only compensation for the involuntary downgrade is the refund of miles without any service fees...well DUH!?!? Why would they charge me for service fees if this clusterf*ck was their fault in the first place.
Thank you for your latest email and bringing your concerns to our attention.
I can completely understand why you are disappointed and hope you will accept my sincere apologies for the inconvenience caused.
As you are aware, we are unable to guarantee that there would not be any aircraft equipment change for our flights. However, when we do have such changes, we will inform our passenger and offer alternative flights or offer the fare or miles difference to customer. For your flight in November, there are unfortunately no flights with first class services till the end of November. Therefore, we could only refund the Upgrade redemption without any service fees. I appreciate your kind understanding of this incident and am sorry for the disappointment this must have caused you. I assure you that if there were alternative options available, our Marco Polo club staff would have proactively offered you.
Thank you once again for bringing your concerns to our attention. I very much hope your next experience with us will be more enjoyable.
I can completely understand why you are disappointed and hope you will accept my sincere apologies for the inconvenience caused.
As you are aware, we are unable to guarantee that there would not be any aircraft equipment change for our flights. However, when we do have such changes, we will inform our passenger and offer alternative flights or offer the fare or miles difference to customer. For your flight in November, there are unfortunately no flights with first class services till the end of November. Therefore, we could only refund the Upgrade redemption without any service fees. I appreciate your kind understanding of this incident and am sorry for the disappointment this must have caused you. I assure you that if there were alternative options available, our Marco Polo club staff would have proactively offered you.
Thank you once again for bringing your concerns to our attention. I very much hope your next experience with us will be more enjoyable.