Jul 14, 2017, 5:06 pm
Last edit by: littlevoices
On the back of a similar thread on the BAEC board, it may be helpful for those going on miles / tier point runs to know which destinations are preferable for back-to-back / immediate turnarounds.
Thanks to all who have contributed so far. Please add to the below if you have experience of this at any Cathay destinations (edit the wiki below directly if you have recent experience of any destination or you are 100% certain)
Definitions:
- Excellent: you will leave the aircraft and find yourself in the boarding area for departure ("Changi T1, T2, T3 model but not T4, CX's terminal" - no segregation of arriving and departing passengers)
- Good: you have to clear central security and/or immigration before reboarding, but the typical walking + queuing time required and the aircraft turnaround time should be fine
- Possible: you have to clear central security and/or immigration before reboarding, but the typical walking + queuing time required and the aircraft turnaround time make this more risky
- Not possible
Mainland China: Not possible, especially back-to-back (same aircraft) - i.e. XMN, TAO, FUC, CTU, XIY and others
BCN: good (though note it is a 6-hour turnaround so will need to wait)
BOS: possible (though will need to go through immigration and customs and reenter via landside) Although Immigration lines can be atrocious at BOS, there are very few international flights landing at that hour, so it should be reasonable.
CDG: good (though BAEC board does not think so)
CGK: possible (unhelpful transit desk; APEC cardholders may find it more predictable to exit and reenter via landside)
CMB: excellent (though need to print return CMB-HKG boarding pass in advance - see separate thread)
DAD: not possible for U-turns.
EWR: possible (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside)
HAN: not possible for U-turns.
HKG: good (still need to reclear central security, but efficient. May require high speed walking depending on respective arrival and departure gates. No immigration required)
HND: good (need to clear security; ample time buffer)
IAD: good (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside)
ICN: good (transfer security available at satellite terminal - no need to take train to main terminal, no immigration)
JFK: possible for CX846/845 and CX888/841 (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside). Not possible for other flights
JNB: good (though note it is a 6-hour turnaround so will need to wait)
KHH: good
KTM: Possible, but get ISM to notify ground staff so they will assign an escort to take you through all the step. Not Possible without escort
KUL: excellent
LAX: possible for CX880/881 (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside). Not possible for other flights
LHR: These are 2 hour transit time combos: CX257/238; CX239/256; CX253/254. Walk to gate 3x can be LONG; intermediate transit security area.
Morning arrivals require 6 hrs transit times for 1200ish departures
MAD: good (though note it is a 6-hour turnaround so will need to wait)
MXP: good (though note it is a 6-hour turnaround so will need to wait)
MLE: good (subject to update on separate thread)
MNL: good (best to plan your turnaround on the next flight to be safe. CX906/900 and 918/902/934 depart close to each other to minimise time wastage). No need to clear immigration however your passport will be taken for processing which may take as much as 30-40 minutes.
NRT: possible (need to clear security; tighter turnarounds)
ORD: not possible
PEK: n/a - regular delays mean this is not a viable miles run route (only try to do so if you have a flex ticket)
PVG: n/a - regular delays mean this is not a viable miles run route
SFO: possible for CX872/873 and CX892/893 (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside). Not possible for other flights
SGN: not possible for U-turns.
SIN: possible, T4-T4 transit may pose some surprise to the staff
SYD: good - transit security but no immigration needed
TPE: good (still need to reclear central security, but efficient and usually empty transit facility)
Thanks to all who have contributed so far. Please add to the below if you have experience of this at any Cathay destinations (edit the wiki below directly if you have recent experience of any destination or you are 100% certain)
Definitions:
- Excellent: you will leave the aircraft and find yourself in the boarding area for departure ("Changi T1, T2, T3 model but not T4, CX's terminal" - no segregation of arriving and departing passengers)
- Good: you have to clear central security and/or immigration before reboarding, but the typical walking + queuing time required and the aircraft turnaround time should be fine
- Possible: you have to clear central security and/or immigration before reboarding, but the typical walking + queuing time required and the aircraft turnaround time make this more risky
- Not possible
Mainland China: Not possible, especially back-to-back (same aircraft) - i.e. XMN, TAO, FUC, CTU, XIY and others
BCN: good (though note it is a 6-hour turnaround so will need to wait)
BOS: possible (though will need to go through immigration and customs and reenter via landside) Although Immigration lines can be atrocious at BOS, there are very few international flights landing at that hour, so it should be reasonable.
CDG: good (though BAEC board does not think so)
CGK: possible (unhelpful transit desk; APEC cardholders may find it more predictable to exit and reenter via landside)
CMB: excellent (though need to print return CMB-HKG boarding pass in advance - see separate thread)
DAD: not possible for U-turns.
EWR: possible (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside)
HAN: not possible for U-turns.
HKG: good (still need to reclear central security, but efficient. May require high speed walking depending on respective arrival and departure gates. No immigration required)
HND: good (need to clear security; ample time buffer)
IAD: good (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside)
ICN: good (transfer security available at satellite terminal - no need to take train to main terminal, no immigration)
JFK: possible for CX846/845 and CX888/841 (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside). Not possible for other flights
JNB: good (though note it is a 6-hour turnaround so will need to wait)
KHH: good
KTM: Possible, but get ISM to notify ground staff so they will assign an escort to take you through all the step. Not Possible without escort
KUL: excellent
LAX: possible for CX880/881 (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside). Not possible for other flights
LHR: These are 2 hour transit time combos: CX257/238; CX239/256; CX253/254. Walk to gate 3x can be LONG; intermediate transit security area.
Morning arrivals require 6 hrs transit times for 1200ish departures
MAD: good (though note it is a 6-hour turnaround so will need to wait)
MXP: good (though note it is a 6-hour turnaround so will need to wait)
MLE: good (subject to update on separate thread)
MNL: good (best to plan your turnaround on the next flight to be safe. CX906/900 and 918/902/934 depart close to each other to minimise time wastage). No need to clear immigration however your passport will be taken for processing which may take as much as 30-40 minutes.
NRT: possible (need to clear security; tighter turnarounds)
ORD: not possible
PEK: n/a - regular delays mean this is not a viable miles run route (only try to do so if you have a flex ticket)
PVG: n/a - regular delays mean this is not a viable miles run route
SFO: possible for CX872/873 and CX892/893 (though need to clear immigration and customs and reenter via landside). Not possible for other flights
SGN: not possible for U-turns.
SIN: possible, T4-T4 transit may pose some surprise to the staff
SYD: good - transit security but no immigration needed
TPE: good (still need to reclear central security, but efficient and usually empty transit facility)
Wiki: Back-to-back / immediate turnarounds at Cathay destinations
Jul 20, 2017, 3:43 am
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: None any more
Posts: 11,017
It used to be possible to requal CX DM (or at least AA EXP - I was both for a few years) off a single AONE3 ticket which might only cost about US$4.5K (ex-CAI at the time).
Last edited by christep; Jul 20, 2017 at 4:03 am
Jul 20, 2017, 3:53 am
#32
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
Of course some are trips/flights that have to be taken/flown anyway tho..
Jul 20, 2017, 4:54 am
#34
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,169
Not club points/AM but long time ago to accelerate my way to EXP... did in one go ORD-HKG-JNB-HKG-LAX-(880 to redeye)-ORD, thursday afternoon out, back Monday morning... all in PE 
Luckily got op up ORD-HKG-JNB but physical fatigue was still borderline unbearable in the end
Nowadays, after switching to MPC, I can't seem to find any long haul ex-outport deals that can match short haul deals for club point run...most are around $9 to $11 usd per CP for long haul J cheapest as it goes but for regionals I can find some between $7 and $8 per cp..recently found one $5.xx...requal/hit DM for $7k USD all in J how does that sound
Luckily got op up ORD-HKG-JNB but physical fatigue was still borderline unbearable in the endNowadays, after switching to MPC, I can't seem to find any long haul ex-outport deals that can match short haul deals for club point run...most are around $9 to $11 usd per CP for long haul J cheapest as it goes but for regionals I can find some between $7 and $8 per cp..recently found one $5.xx...requal/hit DM for $7k USD all in J how does that sound
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...s-1-350-a.html
Low $6s/CP..
bl@@dy h#ll!
Thats 56% of the way to BA gold! And only 18% towards DM..
Jul 20, 2017, 5:00 am
#35
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
I once flew HKGxYVR-JFK-YVR-DFW-ANC-DFW-ORD-LAX-LHR-CAI-LHR-HEL (in F&J) to get to a holiday in Helsinki whilst my gf at the time set out 4 days later and just flew HKG-HEL.
The only excuse I can offer is that I was addicted to D/AONEx tickets and CX DM at the time.
The only excuse I can offer is that I was addicted to D/AONEx tickets and CX DM at the time.
Not club points/AM but long time ago to accelerate my way to EXP... did in one go ORD-HKG-JNB-HKG-LAX-(880 to redeye)-ORD, thursday afternoon out, back Monday morning... all in PE Luckily got op up ORD-HKG-JNB but physical fatigue was still borderline unbearable in the end
Luckily got op up ORD-HKG-JNB but physical fatigue was still borderline unbearable in the end
Jul 20, 2017, 8:43 am
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: OneWorld Emerald (BA GGL), *A Silver (Miles & Less), Skyteam Pleb (KLM FlyingBlue), Mucci Platinum
Posts: 903
Not at all unusual amongst the people here surely?
I once flew HKGxYVR-JFK-YVR-DFW-ANC-DFW-ORD-LAX-LHR-CAI-LHR-HEL (in F&J) to get to a holiday in Helsinki whilst my gf at the time set out 4 days later and just flew HKG-HEL.
The only excuse I can offer is that I was addicted to D/AONEx tickets and CX DM at the time.
I once flew HKGxYVR-JFK-YVR-DFW-ANC-DFW-ORD-LAX-LHR-CAI-LHR-HEL (in F&J) to get to a holiday in Helsinki whilst my gf at the time set out 4 days later and just flew HKG-HEL.
The only excuse I can offer is that I was addicted to D/AONEx tickets and CX DM at the time.
Jul 20, 2017, 8:46 am
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: OneWorld Emerald (BA GGL), *A Silver (Miles & Less), Skyteam Pleb (KLM FlyingBlue), Mucci Platinum
Posts: 903
Aug 4, 2017, 5:59 pm
#39
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: HKG,LON
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 31
Currently on KA900 to PEK for a back to back, will report any updates. Going back to HKG on CX391. Both flights looking on time for once. Changed my flights to today just yesterday night anticipating no ATC delays. Separate bookings.
Aug 4, 2017, 10:49 pm
#40
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: HKG,LON
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 31
Can confirm now PEK is definitely do-able as long as there's no heavy ATC delays. My flight to PEK was slightly delayed by the ATC but nevertheless I made it back to the gate (which is the furthest one from the transit/security area) before the supposed turnaround flight started boarding (I am taking a later return flight just incase), took me around 25 minutes to get from the aircraft arriving at the gate to the transit desks down to the security queues and back to the gate at a leisurely pace. The transit desk should be literally impossible to miss as there are clear signs and it is just to the left of the arrival immigration as you proceed towards arrival, after a quick boarding pass check (do remember to keep the boarding pass from the previous flight with you as the officer will ask for it), down some stairs and you will be at a security queue separate from the main ones but if the queue is getting too long, they will open a door for you to the main security queues and from there it's fool proof really.
Still doubting if this could be done if there is an ATC delays of more than 2-3 hours.
Not sure if PEK has any sort of conformances like LHR so as long as you are checked in and turn up to the gate in time you should be fine, check in could be done at HKG in the lounge (so that you are committed to doing it) and they can print your "onward" boarding pass there. So technically a same aircraft back to back is as do-able as any other back to back in PEK if not more do-able.
OT:
Doing a PEK back to back to complete a PEK-HKG-LHR-HKG-PEK (works for most CX EU destinations) and starting another one of that now, OT but great fare, in J around HKD26000(US$3.3k), no advance purchase required (literally booked yesterday night and flying the first leg today), free changes and free stopovers in HKG, so I did PEK-HKG in August last year and stretched the ticket to almost the limit. Also available in PE at HKD16000(US$2k). Pathetic wifi speed at the CX lounge in PEK tho, 3.86mb download speed and most website won't work at all.
Still doubting if this could be done if there is an ATC delays of more than 2-3 hours.
Not sure if PEK has any sort of conformances like LHR so as long as you are checked in and turn up to the gate in time you should be fine, check in could be done at HKG in the lounge (so that you are committed to doing it) and they can print your "onward" boarding pass there. So technically a same aircraft back to back is as do-able as any other back to back in PEK if not more do-able.
OT:
Doing a PEK back to back to complete a PEK-HKG-LHR-HKG-PEK (works for most CX EU destinations) and starting another one of that now, OT but great fare, in J around HKD26000(US$3.3k), no advance purchase required (literally booked yesterday night and flying the first leg today), free changes and free stopovers in HKG, so I did PEK-HKG in August last year and stretched the ticket to almost the limit. Also available in PE at HKD16000(US$2k). Pathetic wifi speed at the CX lounge in PEK tho, 3.86mb download speed and most website won't work at all.
Aug 5, 2017, 11:23 am
#41
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 505
Can confirm now PEK is definitely do-able as long as there's no heavy ATC delays. My flight to PEK was slightly delayed by the ATC but nevertheless I made it back to the gate (which is the furthest one from the transit/security area) before the supposed turnaround flight started boarding (I am taking a later return flight just incase), took me around 25 minutes to get from the aircraft arriving at the gate to the transit desks down to the security queues and back to the gate at a leisurely pace. The transit desk should be literally impossible to miss as there are clear signs and it is just to the left of the arrival immigration as you proceed towards arrival, after a quick boarding pass check (do remember to keep the boarding pass from the previous flight with you as the officer will ask for it), down some stairs and you will be at a security queue separate from the main ones but if the queue is getting too long, they will open a door for you to the main security queues and from there it's fool proof really.
Still doubting if this could be done if there is an ATC delays of more than 2-3 hours.
Not sure if PEK has any sort of conformances like LHR so as long as you are checked in and turn up to the gate in time you should be fine, check in could be done at HKG in the lounge (so that you are committed to doing it) and they can print your "onward" boarding pass there. So technically a same aircraft back to back is as do-able as any other back to back in PEK if not more do-able.
OT:
Doing a PEK back to back to complete a PEK-HKG-LHR-HKG-PEK (works for most CX EU destinations) and starting another one of that now, OT but great fare, in J around HKD26000(US$3.3k), no advance purchase required (literally booked yesterday night and flying the first leg today), free changes and free stopovers in HKG, so I did PEK-HKG in August last year and stretched the ticket to almost the limit. Also available in PE at HKD16000(US$2k). Pathetic wifi speed at the CX lounge in PEK tho, 3.86mb download speed and most website won't work at all.
Still doubting if this could be done if there is an ATC delays of more than 2-3 hours.
Not sure if PEK has any sort of conformances like LHR so as long as you are checked in and turn up to the gate in time you should be fine, check in could be done at HKG in the lounge (so that you are committed to doing it) and they can print your "onward" boarding pass there. So technically a same aircraft back to back is as do-able as any other back to back in PEK if not more do-able.
OT:
Doing a PEK back to back to complete a PEK-HKG-LHR-HKG-PEK (works for most CX EU destinations) and starting another one of that now, OT but great fare, in J around HKD26000(US$3.3k), no advance purchase required (literally booked yesterday night and flying the first leg today), free changes and free stopovers in HKG, so I did PEK-HKG in August last year and stretched the ticket to almost the limit. Also available in PE at HKD16000(US$2k). Pathetic wifi speed at the CX lounge in PEK tho, 3.86mb download speed and most website won't work at all.
As for ATC delays, so long as you are booked on the same a/c that is doing the turnaround, I'm not sure of the issue? If the outbound is delayed, then inbound is likewise delayed - no? Or are you talking about flying up to PEK on an earlier flight (not the direct turnaround)?
Aug 6, 2017, 10:54 am
#42
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: HKG,LON
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 31
Did you need to take the shuttle train to get to the "main" concourse in order to clear transit procedures? 100% no need to go through immigration etc right? I ask because the PVG transit desk each time I've walked past it, its completely empty. If HKG can issue ex-PEK boarding passes (sometimes HKG refuses to print outport return boarding passes - its confusing when they do and when they dont), then you don't need to rely on the transit desk, the only remaining issue is to ensure the PEK transit facility is open!!
As for ATC delays, so long as you are booked on the same a/c that is doing the turnaround, I'm not sure of the issue? If the outbound is delayed, then inbound is likewise delayed - no? Or are you talking about flying up to PEK on an earlier flight (not the direct turnaround)?
As for ATC delays, so long as you are booked on the same a/c that is doing the turnaround, I'm not sure of the issue? If the outbound is delayed, then inbound is likewise delayed - no? Or are you talking about flying up to PEK on an earlier flight (not the direct turnaround)?
Nope, you do not need to take the shuttle train back to the main concourse, and there are transfer desks before the transit area so you might be able to print boarding pass out there, I asked the staff to print the return boarding pass at the Pier but if anything you should be able to print a paper boarding pass yourselves after online check in anyway. Not sure when the transfer area close tho, or if they do close at all. Don't know much about PVG because I rarely fly there.
Technically if you are booked on the same aircraft doing the turnaround you should always make it back to the gate before it closes (or even before boarding starts), unless the delays are stacking up and they swap the aircrafts all over the place but this would be a very very rare occasion. If you are flying up to PEK on an earlier flight then you do run the risk of our aircraft arriving after your turnaround aircraft and missing it subsequently, I flew on an earlier flight only because I changed my ticket the night before and seat availability was limited. So back to back in PEK are actually fairly do-able but not exactly an OSL-turnaround to be honest.
Aug 7, 2017, 5:13 am
#44
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: LON
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 172
The V fare for SYD LHR return was often around 9000 HKD (1500 AUD) whereas the it was over 10000 HKD for HKG LHR return. The E fares on the 2pax deals were even better pricing out at 11000 HKD per person for SYD LHR.
Although I'm not advocating doing it as a mileage run, it is a pretty easy way to combine two trips into one, especially back in the day with the GO seat guarantee.