wrldtrav2013

I understand for routes like NYC where its nose heavy with lots of corporate travellers, not even surprised for LHR since the HK mothers and their wealthy 2nd generation. But YYZ?

J is constantly full, even with direct flights to PVG, CAN, and TPE there is still lots of J traffic to HKG. I understood back in the day when everyone had to transfer in HKG, but now there are so many options. If YYZ is getting so nose heavy then they should switch to the 4 class configuration especially with the A350s being delivered now.

winnipegrev

I agree J on 826/829 always seems to be full to/from YYZ. However CX (or any other airline) won't be able to sell F profitably into YYZ plus they need far more Y seats than the 77H offers.

A350-1000 sounds good though if it comes in the 50/30/250 config mentioned in the other thread.

wrldtrav2013

As much as I agree with the F not being able to sell, the last time they offered it the economy was in a very different state. I think if they offered F again, there would be people flocking to buy it, provided its under 12k per seat. But the lack of J inventory is ridiculous, getting an award upgrade is impossible. Even PEY is full, probably from the excess of Y passengers. I think for the CX 829, its even more feasible to have the 4 class config.

QRC3288

This is akin to the same arguments all the Australia folks bring up.

It's about yield. It's not about if you can just fill the plane.

And the opportunity cost of your fleet.

Obviously, CX can see the numbers. And instead of doing, say swapping BOS's 77H for YYZs 77G.....they haven't. In fact they've increased BOS frequency with 77H. So I will just state the obvious and say my guess is the yields aren't as good as what CX can get elsewhere. YYZ hasn't had F for a long time, I think I last flew F to YYZ in 2009. It has been a while.

CX could sell a plane full of F to Timbuktu. Of course, the yield would be atrocious. The seats might sell for $50. But I guarantee it'd be full. My point is a full plane doesn't itself speak to the yield, and the need to upguage like you imply. In fact, it could be a sign that CX has precisely the right strategy in the market. It is not an airline's dream to fill a plane with award bookers, even though that's what individuals with points to burn would like....that is a money losing proposition for the airline.

Of curse a full plane is not a bad sign....but unless you know how elastic demand really is, it really doesn't mean much. Not to mention the CAD isn't too hot lately. I can't help but notice J prices ex YYZ, at least from my perspective stuck in HK, look pretty cheap especially coming from a USD earner. And CX ultimately has the vast majority of its costs in USD in the shape of planes, oil and most crew (HKD is pegged to USD, effectively the same thing), so CX is going to care about USD&HKD earnings.

My bet is CX makes a lot more money flying 77G to YYZ than 77H, and that's why it goes. Fyi the 77G fleet is tighter than the 77H fleet I believe. Insisting to fly that plane somewhere means something.

One last thought. This recommendation to swap to 77H would cut capacity by at least 65 seats a day....again, I just don't know if that makes sense for the market. If the price point for F is $12k CAD like you say, I'll add that's cheaper than CX can get for J seats HKG-JFK.

percysmith

Not unless they cannot sell J for more than 5.2K

5.2K =12K / 2.33 (2.33J = 1F's floor space from https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...l#post27647440 )

G-CIVC

If I am not mistaken, the 77G configuration was tailored towards YYZ route specifically in the very beginning.

fakecd

something tells me you are annoyed cuz you cant get award or upgrade. If so CX has done the right thing. let me also guess if you really wanted to pay for J seat revenue ticket it wont be an issue.either.

so CX has done it right. J is full but hard to get awards or upgrade. Yield aside its probably doing the correct thing as opposed to someone able.to get awards all the time

finally dont underestimate the amount of wealth in the world. you and I might not see it but there are plenty of money in the world

percysmith

Miles is just a restricted currency for seats that airlines need to sell cheaply but not to passengers who can pay more (corporates/rich people/busy people):

https://forum.hongkongcard.com/forum...w/21068?page=6 #53
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...l#post27359697

If they can sell the seats to people who can fork out cash, we should accumulate less miles and look at other options (e.g. indirect routings).

Spock Seat

Not many direct oneworld flights YYZ-BOS, using oneworld metal either. lol. There used to be.

PH-BFS

I flew YYZ-HKG on 829 on May 3rd, in J class. There were a few empty seats here and there. One lady had trouble with the power outlet at her seat and had to switch seats.
When I flew on the same route two years ago, there were a lot more empty seats, and from what I remember, the mini cabin in the back was almost entirely empty. This was also in May.

wrldtrav2013

Upgrades aside, I'm more annoyed that booking a J ticket is becoming more difficult. Back in June of last year,there were no J seats left. Same thing at the end of March, there wasn't a single J seat left. I was booking 15-20 days out which I think its a generous timeline given its business travel. I don't even think about award upgrades anymore, they're becoming more rare from YYZ.

hermanc

You may wish to consider flying AC. Very similar hard product, comparable food although services can be hit and miss. That said, it is much cheaper.

sscywong

I just flew 829 two days later than you

Similar observation. Nonetheless still saw a few op-up (one offered in PP lounge, one at gate, another one still on the desk of gate at the time I board... but no idea where the passenger was up to...)

Per seat map before online check-in, there were 5 empty seats left in J... Didn't border to check them in flight again...

p.s. Mine is a U class up from W so... Probably yield is one of the most key, if not the, determining factor on whether CX release a reward seat to you or not....

24left

I've flown a total of 6 flights on 829 and 826 in the past year, the most recent April 18 on 829 and April 24 on 826.

Not an empty seat in the house - in any cabin.

While I don't have access to CX revenue management numbers and whether they were all cash or perhaps some upgrades, I was tracking the loads on EF from the time I bought the tickets. J was sold out long before and I think there was just 1 seat blocked off in the mini-J.

HKG is one of a few routes from YYZ that are extremely competitive and in come cases, there are price-sensitive pax.

The fact that our dollar is worth only slightly more than monopoly money right now does make a difference to many industries especially airlines.

Clearly YVR is a more interesting market to watch. I was out in YVR & YYJ for an FT Do this past weekend and just sitting in the AC Domestic lounge watching the Asian wide bodies rolling in is a sight in itself. CX clearly knows that it can fill not just the 2 daily flights but now added the 359 as an extra on a few days.

While Canada just does not have a large enough population to begin with and even if there is wealth in some communities, for whatever reason, no one wants to pay for F. And it's not only CX. LH pulled all F from Canada a while ago.

HaK888

We usually fly 826/826 on our annual visits back home during the March/April periods; each time J has been fully occupied, whereas PY sometimes half to fully occupied. In J (front cabin), more recently seems to be a mix of leisure and student travellers with low # of business type flyers. This time on our way back to HK, half were elderly - as in grey, white hairs on the flight. Also, it seems the 'connecting thru HK' Mainland travellers on this route has gone down considerably. We are aware of AC's lower pricing but remain with CX due to the miles and overall service. On that note anyone know if CX will offer Vantage Pass in 2018 Q1?