New regional business class in 2019
#16
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,671
I think it's a rehash of the hard shell economy seat debate - do we want seats that recline or easy to get into/out of?
Lots of my regional Js are redeyes (they're overpriced redemptions on public holidays) so I will prefer the former. I understand for daytime flying the latter is preferred though.
Lots of my regional Js are redeyes (they're overpriced redemptions on public holidays) so I will prefer the former. I understand for daytime flying the latter is preferred though.
#17
#18
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
It all points towards a further separation between Cathay longhaul and Dragon regional. 32 new narrowbodies to replace 'up to' 23 A320s of which some are almost new. I think its almost inevitable KA will take over most of the CX regional network, leaving them to focus on long haul and trunk routes. It would be a welcome development imo.
"Hogg explained the new planes would allow Cathay Dragon to fly smaller jets and increase the number of flights per destination instead of operating larger wide-body aircraft."
#19
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Marco Polo
Posts: 546
There's going to be people who dislike the decision either way. Although flatbeds would be ideal in ALL CX/KA J cabins they would be quite tight pitch wise on the narrow body fleet and unless some new config was debuted would be difficult to enter/exit when the aisle is flat. I think a proper recliner is likely the right decision considering 90% of the KA missions are around 4 hours or less. I know this won't please the red eye passengers but I think a modern version of a recliner makes far more sense than an update on the current regional J seat which I think everyone can admit has many drawbacks.
#20
Moderator, Emirates
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Where My Heart Is
Programs: BAEC Silver, FB Platinum, KQ Asante Gold, Shebamiles Blue, Emirates Blue
Posts: 3,380
I've got to say, at 6ft 3in, I find the regional J seats on KA rather uncomfortable after a short time. I walked off both flights I had on them with a sore back.
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#21
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
Not exactly, Hogg said the narrowbodies would replace some widebody flights. More likely the ancient A330s KA and the few CX operate will be retired, with CX's newer A330s moving over but not fully replacing KA's 1:1.
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/e...ft-replacement
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/e...ft-replacement
#22
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: YVR, KUL
Programs: AC, MH, BA, AF-KL
Posts: 2,886
I know the SIN redeye always gets the regional J. Yes, it's only 3.5 hours, but a redeye nonetheless.
#23
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,671
Not for Thursday morn (I checked) (no flights tomorrow morn)
Even CX566 tomorrow morn has 33K, but CX has played this game long enough with me and my friends' T-360 redemptions for us not to have hope (33K always gets rostered first and is subsequently equip swapped for 33P).
Even CX566 tomorrow morn has 33K, but CX has played this game long enough with me and my friends' T-360 redemptions for us not to have hope (33K always gets rostered first and is subsequently equip swapped for 33P).
#24
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In front of my computer
Programs: MPC DM, SPG Plat
Posts: 87
The BLR - HKG flight is absolutely miserable in the current KA J seat. The flight is barely shorter than the BOM - HKG flight that CX operates with a lie flat bed but costs the same! I would love it if KA stopped operating that flight and had CX do it instead.
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Toulouse
Programs: TK*G
Posts: 281
India permits 2 airlines from Hong Kong to operate flights to India only, that's CX and KA. They have to do this in order to stop HX or UO joining the battle.
However, since now KA operates CCU, I'm not sure if CX can finally take-over the BLR route or not actually.
And to be honest, that's another reason why KA brand does not merge completely into CX brand.
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,495
We should not forget that a lot of CX premium longhaul pax are transfer pax, whether on CX or KA.
On a recent KUL-HKG flight in J I chatted with my neibough who was continuing to US. Not happy to sit on regional J for 4+ hours, especially on return flight after longhaul.
He is considering other North Asia airlines.
On a recent KUL-HKG flight in J I chatted with my neibough who was continuing to US. Not happy to sit on regional J for 4+ hours, especially on return flight after longhaul.
He is considering other North Asia airlines.
#27
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,704
The current regional biz product is such a failure. And I guarantee CX is losing yield from pax like me - decide our spend - on account of it. It's possible I'm irrelevant in the scheme of things, because HK-based corporates will just pay for J. In this case the Managing Director, who has little discretionary power of his own but has been guaranteed biz class in his contract, has been given what he is "owed" by his bank, who no doubt negotiated a nice corporate discount. In this case where the "customer" (the MD in my example above) doesn't really have the actual say in "his" spending decision, the product is destined to be not as good. But it doesn't explain everything.
If I'm forking out a thousand or two USD for biz, I've been picking SQ down to SIN (at least for my last two trips). I buy CX for the cheaper seats, aka a discounted J fare or Y. Seriously. Their pricing isn't very different yet SQ offers a superior regional seat apples to apples, and most importantly guaranteed longhaul J and F if I decide I want that (SQ2/1 on 77W in the morning/evening, the A380 flight midday, and another 77W roundtrip each afternoon, in addition to somewhat more variable 772, A330 and A359). CX cannot guarantee you the longhaul plane.
So....You must just assume you're getting CX regional J. And how is that even a choice at equal prices?!
Ironically, I remember my first trip or two in new regional J. I liked it. Power ports, superficially looks good, etc. Just shows how misleading a single impression or two are. After now far too many flights to count, I feel very comfortable saying this is hands down the WORST CX development I've seen in my 10 years flying them. I've seen the new F rollout (awesome), coffin J (good idea, perhaps not ideal), fabric issues with coffin J, Cirrus J (excellent), old "new" regional business class which was halted (you know that seats with the electric controls vs manual ones, this was a failure but the "improvements" so incremental that I don't call this a catastrophe as much as it was just sorry), shell Y (bad, but I give them credit for trying something innovative, and admitting their mistake. It wasn't a terrible idea in theory and I like how they tried), the "new" longhaul Y which is now pretty rolled out across the fleet and seems good to me (admittedly, I am only familiar with it short-haul), the rollout of PEY which I think is a solid hard product, and now 35G, with its new Y seats, new PEY seats and refreshed Cirrus which has manufacturing issues. Anyway my point is:
All the good and bad in the paragraph above, I think this regional business class is easily the worst development CX did in ten years. Part of it is made worse that it doesn't seem to be a high agenda item. At least with the fabric on Cirrus J, or this 35G biz seat issue, the complaints are at a fever pitch and picked up by the media who help amplify, and CX addressed and fixed the issues. These regional biz seats are just quietly bad and....2019???. I watch my own spending, and I do at times pick other regional carriers in J just because I can be guaranteed a nicer seat.
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,495
I agree with QRC3288 that the new regional business seat is a development failure and hurts CX. The strategy in the next few years for regional J is probably the most important decision for the new CEO.
I don't know if the information is available for CX, but some airlines offer some profit accounting per line of business, such as longhaul (LH) or regional. In Europe, many airlines are profitable longhaul, but their international regional operations (the rest is domestcic which CX does not have) are losing money but highly needed as feeder for longhaul. CX must have detailed information on the breakdown of its regional J traffic between feeder and Point to point.
CX, like other Asian airlines, use underutilized day-time LH ac to strategic destinations used by many LH pax. For example is directing a lot of LH A333 to BKK because of connecting American pax (and no nonsstop competition from TG to America). Some of those birds were removed from KUL. But CX does not have enough LH birds for that purpose.
So the question is how CX will position its future regional J.
Will it position itself as a better-than-LCC and be happy to simply offer a better seat than LCCs like Air Asia?
Or will it position itself as the best-airline for LH pax and offer something like SQ?
There are so many parameters to consider, including what the Asian market will look like many years from now, and no obvious solution.
I don't know if the information is available for CX, but some airlines offer some profit accounting per line of business, such as longhaul (LH) or regional. In Europe, many airlines are profitable longhaul, but their international regional operations (the rest is domestcic which CX does not have) are losing money but highly needed as feeder for longhaul. CX must have detailed information on the breakdown of its regional J traffic between feeder and Point to point.
CX, like other Asian airlines, use underutilized day-time LH ac to strategic destinations used by many LH pax. For example is directing a lot of LH A333 to BKK because of connecting American pax (and no nonsstop competition from TG to America). Some of those birds were removed from KUL. But CX does not have enough LH birds for that purpose.
So the question is how CX will position its future regional J.
Will it position itself as a better-than-LCC and be happy to simply offer a better seat than LCCs like Air Asia?
Or will it position itself as the best-airline for LH pax and offer something like SQ?
There are so many parameters to consider, including what the Asian market will look like many years from now, and no obvious solution.
#30
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: HKG
Programs: CX Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 418
Another huge disappointment.
What's bothering me is that CX doesn't seem to acknowledge that their current regional J is a failure. Replacing cushion or cover doesn't fix the problem at all - simply a waste of money.
I have been actively avoiding regional J. If I have no choice (due to timing), I will simply book Y or another carrier instead.
Is CX is still assuming people will stick with them no matter what seats and service they offer? They need to look at what their regional competitors are offering (including HX). Even for its loyal customers, patience is running out.
At CX's price point, an angled flat bed (like in JL's 787) is a bare minimum.
What's bothering me is that CX doesn't seem to acknowledge that their current regional J is a failure. Replacing cushion or cover doesn't fix the problem at all - simply a waste of money.
I have been actively avoiding regional J. If I have no choice (due to timing), I will simply book Y or another carrier instead.
Is CX is still assuming people will stick with them no matter what seats and service they offer? They need to look at what their regional competitors are offering (including HX). Even for its loyal customers, patience is running out.
At CX's price point, an angled flat bed (like in JL's 787) is a bare minimum.