ACCOUNT CANCELED, 360K miles loss!!!

Old Jan 17, 17, 2:23 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 3
Thumbs down ACCOUNT CANCELED, 360K miles loss!!!

Received an email from asia mile saying that they suspect that I have sold miles to someone else, therefore they decided to close my account and cancel all my points -- 360000, which were trasferred from my credit card.

I redeemed a few tickets for my family and exes, and never sell any miles. And these were happened more than half a year ago. The only thing I had done recently is that I called them to query a ticket for myself.

I called customer service and was told that my account is under investigation. Anyone knows how get my account and miles back?
Ben Wu is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 2:38 am
  #2  
sxc
Moderator, Cathay Pacific
Accor Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,531
This is a new one - would be interested to know how this turns out for you, and what they say contributed to their findings that you were trading miles.
sxc is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 3:18 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,704
definitely keen to know myself, especially considering you did nothing wrong...

would you mind giving us more details? What is your status level on CX? Do you often fly them? Accrue miles, etc?
QRC3288 is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 3:23 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,043
Definitely new on here!

A couple of years or so back, there was a sudden spurt in such audit cases on the SQ board- think around a bit after SQ partnered up with US card partners. Guess CX/CPLP just got a new unit active...
jagmeets is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 3:50 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM) - CX Grn
Posts: 2,674
In the AA section there is a major section on this topic with respect to AA. It might be worthwhile sending a PM to JonNYC. I suspect he would be interested (and make suggestions) but can not guarantee he will be able to improve the situation.

Happy wandering

Fred
wandering_fred is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 3:56 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,704
if what the OP says is correct - he indeed didn't do anything wrong - that's pretty frightening they can just can your account like that without talking to you, asking questions about transactions, etc. They're basically willing to kill the customer relationship without making sure they haven't erred?
QRC3288 is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 3:58 am
  #7  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Asia Miles. Not bothering to join Marco Polo.
Posts: 17,363
It's happened before - reported not here but on hongkongcard http://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/18044 and Flyertea

I looked at some of the sale accusations, and to put it in the most polite form, the people I talk to will fail a "can you demonstrate to a Small Claims Tribunal officer that you will issue a reward ticket to the people in your redemption list in exchange for nothing --> i.e. they're a family member or friend of some standing?"

I didn't include Exes in there but I suppose they qualify.

I'll take what you said on face value. Now can you prove this in writing? Family --> easy, birth certificates, marriage certificates (KE requires this to redeem miles for others). Exes - emm, itineraries where you've travelled together?

Send it all to AM before they make a judgement on you. The problem with miles is possession is nine-tenths of the law (and possession is with AM) and it's a lot harder get them to release miles than for them to seize your miles (just a few clicks on your membership record...)

I hope you're a HK resident, because ultimately it may come before a Small Claims Tribunal (the only recourse you have, because CAD, HKMA, Consumer Council, Customs do not). You will have to file a writ that AM has not complied with its contractual obligations, and make AM produce its evidence.

But even if you then secure a judgement in your favour, AM either releases your miles or is ordered to pay damages. It need not pay any penalties, nor reimburse you for your time pursuing them <-- that's why I'm reluctant to go down the legal path.
percysmith is online now  
Old Jan 17, 17, 1:43 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, Marco Polo Gold
Posts: 901
Originally Posted by QRC3288 View Post
if what the OP says is correct - he indeed didn't do anything wrong - that's pretty frightening they can just can your account like that without talking to you, asking questions about transactions, etc. They're basically willing to kill the customer relationship without making sure they haven't erred?
Legally, if you bother to read the fine prints, there are tons of clauses that basically said they can do this, and it looks like they will do this if they wanted to. People assume these accounts and points are your personal private property, they are not (read the fine prints), they are courtesy benefits that the corporation has sole ownership and can take it away anytime they wish.

Now, just because the corporations write things in fine prints doesn't mean you can't still sue them. That's where lawyers come in, and find the right ones and eventually there can be a compromise, or even restitution.

360K miles huh. I have over 1.2m miles unspent and now it makes me wonder when will Cathay decide that's too much for me to hoard and can my account.
Cathay Dragon 666 is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 3:04 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,704
Originally Posted by Cathay Dragon 666 View Post
Legally, if you bother to read the fine prints, there are tons of clauses that basically said they can do this, and it looks like they will do this if they wanted to. People assume these accounts and points are your personal private property, they are not (read the fine prints), they are courtesy benefits that the corporation has sole ownership and can take it away anytime they wish.

Now, just because the corporations write things in fine prints doesn't mean you can't still sue them. That's where lawyers come in, and find the right ones and eventually there can be a compromise, or even restitution.

360K miles huh. I have over 1.2m miles unspent and now it makes me wonder when will Cathay decide that's too much for me to hoard and can my account.
Yea, totally understand. My main point is that CX would be willing to "go nuclear" with a customer without even asking them or trying to verify. Again, I'm taking the OP at his/her word that he didn't sell miles.

Because clearly, if CX did this to a loyal CX customer, they should expect that customer is going to cut their business with CX by 75-100pct, and probably a few of their friends too. And maybe incur some negative press etc. There is indeed a cost to CX for doing something like this, so they've got to calculate if the deterrence value + losing this customer probably for life is worth it. If it's a valuable customer, then I'm kinda surprised.

Take you, for example with 1.2mm miles and presumably a lot of flying. If CX did this to you they will definitely lose business. And not to mention, they kinda put a shudder to the rest of us who are loyal customers. I haven't once sold miles before, but I have indeed redeemed them for my parents, cousin, partner, two childhood friends and even one of my staff. Over my life I've probably had 7 or 8 different people as my redemption nominees. This thread makes me a little paranoid: what triggered this erroneous shutdown? Was it changes to the redemption group? Too many credit card transfers? What patterns was the OP up to that made CX falsely flag this?
QRC3288 is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 3:35 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Francisco , CA
Programs: Marco Polo Club; Asia Miles
Posts: 208
This really sucks. Please update on the progress.
JohnGreat is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 6:09 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: HKG
Programs: BA(GGL) QF LTS CX AM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,627
Sounds to me less like a legal case than one for negotiation for now.

How about OP swears a Statutory Declaration to the effect that he never sold miles + redeem only for friends/family/exes and then send it off to CX? I reckon that may bring a quicker resolution?
ermen is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 6:45 pm
  #12  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Asia Miles. Not bothering to join Marco Polo.
Posts: 17,363
Well when I cross-posted this on hongkongcard another member of some standing there came forward to say he's been subject of a similar closure http://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumS.../18044?page=11 #107

He admitted to one sale.
But otherwise his account is relatively orderly: 5-6 years membership, have only three people on his redemption list, never paid to refresh or change his redemption list.

Latest discussion on hongkongcard is drawing attention to the identity of the buyer - he may be a habitual buyer of many members' awards and so caused all his sellers to be flagged. The hongkongcard member admitted this may be a possibility.

Last edited by percysmith; Jan 17, 17 at 6:51 pm
percysmith is online now  
Old Jan 17, 17, 6:56 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MNL
Programs: CX MPO DM, Le Club Accor Platinum, World of Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,245
I wonder if CX takes into account if your miles are purely CC transfers vs BIS Miles? Maybe they are critical of accounts with a disproportionate amounts of CC transfers and used mostly to redeem for other people instead for oneself.
FlyPointyEnd is offline  
Old Jan 17, 17, 7:01 pm
  #14  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Asia Miles. Not bothering to join Marco Polo.
Posts: 17,363
Originally Posted by FlyPointyEnd View Post
I wonder if CX takes into account if your miles are purely CC transfers vs BIS Miles? Maybe they are critical of accounts with a disproportionate amounts of CC transfers and used mostly to redeem for other people instead for oneself.
Now you got me really worried now cos I am 100% CC miles 0 BIS miles (or even non-CC miles generally...)

We figured the following are red flags:
- new accounts vs "seasoned" accounts
- lots of changes of redemption list
- proportion of own travel vs other travel

I'm not personally convinced quantity of miles is up there...otherwise some bloggers are gonna cop it - I haven't heard they have.
percysmith is online now  
Old Jan 17, 17, 7:06 pm
  #15  
sxc
Moderator, Cathay Pacific
Accor Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,531
I suspect redeeming for others is going to be the biggest factor vs getting miles via credit cards.
sxc is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: