percysmith

We wondered whether we can force AM to submit direct evidence, but no-one has run a test case here to our knowledge, even with all the confiscations going on.

I don't think HK agents are that smart as you say the US ones are. They act only when the ticket has already been cancelled by revenue protection acting on some form of heuristics.

Keep in mind CX check in tickets issued by AAdvantage, BAEC, QF FF etc, and have no business (incentive) to perform revenue protection for those programs. In fact, doesn't this happen in the US also ("Oh, my cousin is sending me on this AA trip with a free ticket from some British program...") (moral of story: don't piss in your own pond, or sell tickets on your FFP's own carrier)

Finkface

And the OP still has not returned to answer the question I asked earlier. Not that he has to, but he asked for help and the silence is deafening.

moondog

Whether or not he broke the rules, silence might not be a bad idea.

Finkface

Agreed, which is why I said he did not have to answer but that the silence was telling.

d00t

Understanding what a pax is willing to pay for a ticket, and have them buy-in at that price is the holy grail of RM. NDC is an enabler for airlines and FFPs to achieve this by having 'offers', rather than distinct fare buckets and availability. CX only last year started moving in this direction so it will be some time before the full value is realised.

I strongly believe that revenue management jobs won't exist in a few years as machine learning/deep learning/AI become better at identifying the right prices.

So maybe it won't be an issue in the future :-)


You are correct. The seemingly unlimited miles coming out of US3 customers, somewhat perpetuated by the bloggers "get this credit card and you get a free first class trip to xxx" also lowers of the product.

CX is restricted by Oneworld and Partner agreements around pricing and availability which doesn't help capitalize on the situation either.

Perhaps one way to address this is to have guaranteed award availability X/times annually if you achieve certain status (think BA GGL benefits).

d00t

Excellent advice ^

Ausriver

So we could actually believe that OP did sold miles to his family members, i.e. an uncle and violated MPC t&c?

JonNYC

To me, no, that's not one of the plausible scenarios.

percysmith

Agree with Ausriver: if they start auditing family redemptions (e.g. maternal or paternal uncles) then AM risk generating enough false positives to be hauled through the courts and/or the press.

I don't think it's against T&C to collect miles to burn on family member(s). I reckon if I am accused of sale after redeeming for my brother, and I turn up to tribunal with both our birth certificates, CX will have a hard time explaining how a sale occurred.

Often1

I think that you are missing the point. When a carrier finds award redemptions going to people who are otherwise engaged in shady dealings such as purchasing from known miles brokers, that is not direct evidence that OP is engaged in fraud. But, it is an indicator and it focuses attention on him and it causes the inquiry to proceed. In other words, it is worth the effort to look at his conduct.

percysmith

I think you may be barking up the wrong tree. Look at this example:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post26815157

BAEC has been hit by rampant sales of its Avios on Taobao Cathay and Dragon Air avail? - tons of seats...then no seats . It appears Mainland miles traders have taken advantage of BAEC's PRC partners' non-compliance with name matching rules to directly credit buyers, who then redeem for themselves.

BAEC imposed a block on CX/KA redemptions within 6-7 days of departure.

AM did nothing even though the same articles cited AM miles are also available for sale on Taobao. Nor did any other OW partner program.

If the carrier cared as you asserted, shouldn't it be AM who did the blocking?

percysmith

If you meant to say the *FFP* found evidence a member is buying from a broker, then I agree.

But the carrier is neutral or maybe even apathetic in all this. It would be like expecting Countrywide to be concerned about the subprime loans it was going to sell to i-banks for packaging into MBS.

Even if the carrier didn't like it - for instance in the case when CX was getting tired of AA taking too many of its TPAC F award seats for 67.5K, the response will be either to raise the reimbursement amount charged to AA, or to restrict its visibility to AA, or both.

FlyPointyEnd

Could it be because AVIOS redemptions for short haul flights require less miles/points? Which makes them favorable?

percysmith

That, plus no redemption list and China Merchants Bank throwing a 30% redemption bonus promotion last year.

ermen

how does it work? you mean there will be a prompt on the agent check in screen to ask x y z questions and log the answers?

lol.. maybe if you get asked that in the US, you just plead the 5th?