FlyPointyEnd

Having recently done 4 sectors on QR, [my first international flight outside CX in about 5 years] I now understand why CX management feels they can cut corners in premium cabins because even QR isn't a match for CX as far as soft product is concerned. Anyway the reason why I decided to give QR a try is because at 1800USD for MNL-DOH-CDG/FCO-DOH-MNL on I-class it was really a good deal. (shouldn't really be complaining....i earned 18000+ AM and 190 Club points)

Both MNL sectors were operated by their high density 77Ws, only 24J and 388Y. The seats were old style angled flat seats that slopes a bit at the legs. Since I was leaving MNL at 2359, I was too sleepy to worry about it, so I went to sleep after grabbing 4 pillows from the empty seats around me. The blankets weren't as good as CX's new duvet for long haul flights but the pillows were bigger. I didn't eat breakfast until around 2 hours before arrival. Although their meals are presented better than CX J meals, the taste leaves much to be desired. I also noticed that they had a lot of crew on board, the Filipino crew on board told me that it was because they used a different config to MNL the day before. Instead of 3 cabin crew plus the CSD, they had 1 extra hand to take care of the 17 pax that night. I must admit this was the best service among the 4 sectors I flew on this trip. Although I think it's more because I was Filipino than a OWE, in fact they were asking me to fill up their Privilege Club form which could only mean they actually don't know my status on board. MNL doesn't have F priority tags, I don't know if they ran out or what but my bags were tagged J all the way to CDG.

The Al Mourjan lounge is....HUGE...that all I could say about it, it's actually bigger than many airports here in the Philippines.... But there's nothing much there, food options were very limited specially compared to any of our Business Class lounges (except G16, but that's closed now). It's new and shinny but pretty much meh. All I could think of when I was there was..."I can't wait to go back to The Pier again."

I was finally able to fly the A380 for the very first time...pretty much like the Al Mourjan lounge, it is huge....although their JCL is only 48, it actually feels a lot bigger than the 77H with 53. They were staffed by 7 crew for 48, compared to 5 on the 77H. Now you would think the service should be good, but it was pretty normally...Then again I'm comparing it as a DM on 77H who normally sits in 11/12K so the experience is really different, even if they are only 5 to 53 passengers, the crew would still go out of their way to make you feel special. I do recall there were many empty seats at the back of the 380, so we could be less than 40, so I was pretty much surprised that service was normal.

The food wasn't spectacular either, they served breakfast and light meals. I opted to sleep for the first part of the 7 hour flight opting to have brunch prior to the noon time arrival at CDG which was basically a salad with chicken and some ravioli. Again like my MNL-DOH flight, it was presented better than CX but the tasted was pretty much the same.

Flying FCO-DOH on the 787 again a first for me, the plane feels nicer more the like A350 but noisier. They had a "lounge" at DR2 and there were two Italian girls traveling together, who decided too spend most of their time there chatting away, I was in 4K and I could hear them while trying to catch a quick nap...gave up on that and decided to just order the Arabic Mezze and Chicken Biryani...both were actually very tasty (the best among the 4 flights). Service was perfunctory....after 2 flights I've sorta learned to lower expectations as far as service was concerned. Oh and don't bother going to the lounge in FCO (same one CX uses)....it was literally the dumps.

The B/E Aerospace Super Diamond isn't also what I expect it to be. I was hopping for something like the Zodiac Cirrus seats we have on CX....It felt more cramped and I think it has something to do with the screen and tables being fixed above your legs and couldn't be stowed away when sleeping like those on Cirrus.

I think the worst flight was my last sector from DOH to MNL, flight leaves at 2:50 in the morning...was the first to board, I had to sit and wait for most passengers to board to even get my pre-departure drink and a choice of hot or cold towel. As it was almost 3:30 by the time we were airborne, I decided to change into their PJs (which were very comfortable by the way), when the crew assigned to my side of the cabin saw me, she remarked "Oh you're gonna sleep, I guess you won't eat then." she didn't smile or anything, nor did she offer to set aside any meal (which would most likely be the SOP on CX).

I am not sure if it was because among all the 4 flights my last flight was the only flight where I had a Caucasian (Eastern European by accent) cabin crew assigned to my aisle. To be very honest about it, it looks like she wasn't even happy she was working that day...she sounded curt most of the time, I recall observing her talk to a passenger in front of me, she was asking if the passenger would like to have coffee or tea, when the passenger replied tea, she said "Well, we have lots of teas, what kind of tea?" and proceeded to thrust the menu to the passenger. Honestly something you wouldn't really see on a CX flight.

The meal was also weird, as we were leaving at 3am, they decided to serve breakfast and light meals, but since we were arriving at 16:30 MNL time, I was hoping they would be serving lunch too...but like AUS flights on CX it only consists of one meal and a light snack.

Dine on Demand really has its benefits, I had some time in the galley of the 380, where there were 7 crew taking care of Business Class, they told me they really work nonstop on these flights because passengers eat at different hours, imagine if CX were to roll that out with a crew of 5 on a 77H...They would be dead by the time they reach Paris.

I also noticed that their crew hierarchy is simpler than CX, they only have a CSD who normally acts as SP on flights, I noticed 1 or 2 similarly dressed crew in Economy (in Grey) then the rest wear their maroon/purple colored uniform.

Unlike CX, don't expect to be addressed by last name on QR flights too.

sxc

But is the extra cost of CX worth the "soft touches" you received?

1010101

I find them pretty equal overall, at least in the QR Super Diamond seat.

On a day flight I prefer QR. I agree with you about the feet being a little cramped but the screen is so much better and the cabin feels more open. I also prefer QR food. More appealing choices and better taste.

On an evening flight I still think the Cirrus is the best in the sky.

jagmeets

Mate - totally agree with you!

Did 4 QR sectors recently, SIN-DOH & DOH-North America in J. 3 were on the 350 and 1 on the 77L.

Positives: Dine on demand, though they did run out of options except on the flights where the cabin load was very light. I had my frequent flier number in on only one of the legs (*cough*), and was proactively asked if I wanted to reserve something on that particular leg (not on others). Crew were very friendly (not in an AA kind of way, I liked the QR crew attitude), but on balance I still prefer the CX way. I was addressed by name by the primary FA for my section on 2 sectors and a rather uncomfortable 'Sir' on/by the others, despite asking the crew to not be obsequious. The ran out of my preferred tipple about an hour into one (very long) flight - I hadn't even started!

Biggest grouse: the B/E Aerospace Super Diamond seat. Yes its 'wider' on initial look, but feels way way more cramped. I always thought that I was a back(rather than side)-sleeper, but on each of the 350 legs, I woke up many times because I bumped myself while tossing & turning. Basically one's legs are too deep into the 'well' under the IFE/seat in front - unlike CX Cirrus, where the knees really enjoy the 'cut-out' while sleeping. (I'm a bit over 6ft tall). I actually liked the older 77L biz seat more even though there was a slight dip near the bottom of the legs (had an empty seat next to me). I'd take the Cirrus 330 version over this, let alone the 777 version.

There is no privacy on the 350. Standing in the open area 2 rows from the back, one can see exactly what each of the passengers in the front 5 rows has on, on their IFEs.

Al Mourjan - nice, but 'whatever' - nothing special, too big, and as they make such a fuss about restricting access, I expected much more- Long queue for showers, though admittedly I was there close to peak times.

IFE: guess I'm too tuned to other airlines' systems, but I found it cumbersome to navigate. The system had to be rebooted on 2/4 sectors for me (both 350s).
I don't get their inconsistency of a security screening before the connecting flight!

Will I fly them again - at a great price (which they do have from time to time)- yes - and partly for the devilish amount of CPs (the MPC revamp focussed well on destroying earning on South Asia- HKG routes, but completely missed what SIN-DOH nets me! similar for HKG-DOH).

That said, my CX longhaul a week after the QR flights was just so much more pleasant, even though the crew were just 'decent'.

sxc, on 'But is the extra cost of CX worth the "soft touches" you received?' - I fly cheapo CX premium cabin most of the time, but would still pay a decent premium - but not every time! I now see QR as a useful tool to rack up CPs on cheap fares, but CX looks to remain the primary choice for me.

QRC3288

Ditto. CX isn't nearly as refined but I prefer Cirrus J for sleeping to Super Diamond. Losing the vertical space with my feel restricts movement and I don't sleep as well.

Al Majouran just isn't my thing and I can't use the F lounge because I never use QR to fly any of the minimal destinations they actually fly F. Fail, IMO. It's absolutely nice but I wish I could have better if that makes sense. Hell I'd PAY more to use F but I can't. There is zero chance I'm doing the fanboy thing to LHR just to fly a 7 hour segment in QR F instead of nonstop on CX. I'm mainly based in HK, ironically the only people I know who have flown QR F are basically aviation enthusiasts burning miles. The cash cohort isn't going out of it's way for this which seems....counterproductive to me. I'm sure it'd be lovely if I lived in Doha or somewhere that made QR F align with my regular flights, but anyway....not possible where I live. Al Majouran is a disappointment in my view since I'm willing to pay more for my ticket if I could have something better.

Really agree with all the OPs points. Think it's a great thread.

FlyPointyEnd

Not really...I've learned to just lower my expectations and sleeping pills.

QRC3288

..yea, "value" is where CX really fails these days. *Cirrus is an excellent product *If you're DM the on-board services are *usually* much better than others *J class catering sucks and F is underwhelming *On a *relative basis* AVOD is going downhill mainly because CX was so far ahead of most competition years ago (these days even US carrier AVOD is pretty good on long-haul flights) *Low marks for Wifi since only on A350s, although as A340s go away and fleet skews towards A359 this is upside for CX as fleet skew will inevitably move towards more wi-fi enabled *CX-operated lounges are excellent *extremely superb non-stop connectivity ex-HKG

As a J class buyer the above sums up CX for me.

But when you pay $7-10k USD round-trip for a J class ticket to JFK, that's where you ask "what is going on here?"

SeeBuyFly

Did you order a snack on QR, and within minutes of eating it the crew announced that they would serve the pre-landing meal now (in the middle of the transpac flight) instead of near the end? Because that happened to me on CX.

Did you sleep through such an unexpected mid-flight meal, and upon waking found that no more food would be served, and the FA said "You can file a complaint if you want"? because that happened to my wife on a different CX flight.

QRC3288

catering and the flights where CX does mid-flight meals are hands-down the worst part of the CX J experience. To be fair, the mid-flight meals are on just a handful of CX flights, but they do suck.

CX is going to roll out an a la carte J class meal thing next year. I kinda am nervous to get what we've been wishing for....at least it will put an end to the mid-flight J meals, but they're such a rarity anyway. Carted meals at beginning and end of flight aren't a problem at all for me, particularly on long North America flights when sleeping is obviously prescribed mid-flight (late afternoon HKG departures, or evening USA/Canada departures).

Off top of my head for mid-flight meals you're looking at CX830, CX841, CX879, CX897, CX885, CX807, and perhaps two of the ex-Canada flights. And even then for these, ISMs still sometimes change it up to meal-rest-rest-meal instead of the prescribed meal-rest-meal-rest. This happens so often that I recommend pax ask the ISM what is the pattern for food instead of assuming.

The absolute worst is on a flight when it's supposed to be meal-rest-rest-meal but pax complain, and they ad-hoc change it up and decide to do mid-flight for the second meal, prior to the second crew rest period. Fortunately these are rare indeed but sucks when it happens.

FlyPointyEnd

The Super Diamond seats really pale in comparison with the new Cirrus seats on the A350. Really far superior than the Super Diamond. Although the shiny wood finish is quite nice.

This was exactly my problem during the flight on the 787 because of the open area/lounge part...the two passengers were chatting away...too noisy.

I've seen the shower area of The Pier Business class, and its way better than the shower area of Al Mourjan. I did have to wait on both times I was there...one was about 10 mins, the other was almost 1hr.

Might have something to do with their main screens are not touch screens so you have to go back and forth between the controller and main screen...quite annoying since CX has touch screens even on the old coffin-seats on the A340s

My observation is the QR crew aren't as sophisticated as with your CX counterparts. My guess is because they are fairly younger and from what I've heard, they have a higher turn over than most of their Asian counterparts. Hence someone who has been flying for them for 2-3 years could be in Business Class, which is something rare for HK based CX Crew.

Hell yeah...I mean even exMNL the cheapest ticket to Europe on CX is about 3200 during a promotion, I could buy two on QR for a price of 1 with CX....

FlyPointyEnd

Really worried about this, as I have pointed out above on the A380, they only have 48pax in J but is staffed with 7 crew...and still on the 7hr flight between Doha and Paris, they were working nonstop, heating meals and plating them. I'm not sure how the 5 crew can survive with 53 passengers ordering at different times of the flight.

QRC3288

Ditto. The showers at Al Majouran suck. Long line (although they'll let you cut if if you have a flight close), low quality, absolutely no "nice" feeling to them at all, and in a few instances this year have the lingering smell like someone just took a big dump. The showers get the job done but nothing to write home about. (CX's The Arrival has this smelly toilet problem fwiw, but none of CX's airside showers do. )

I would take Pier J over Al Majouran any day.

FlyPointyEnd

Apart from pricing, food is the only thing they are better at in my opinion. You know how the altitude affects your taste buds so I'm really not worried about the taste at 39,000 feet. Honestly if you put their meals beside CX casseroles, it makes CX look like EY meals. Presentation wise their meals look closer to what we get on First Class.

percysmith

Wow. Seems so much different from my experience last year (HKG-DOH-EZE)

Food: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post25676582

Al Mourjan lounge: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...l#post26931308

Particular points of OP's experience that surprised me:

- Al Mourjan queue for showers? No queue for me (we took two)
- I'm sort of on the fence on Pier food versus Al Mourjan food...I guess it depends whether you like Pier's buffet style or Al Mourjan'a bistro style
- FAs didn't smile as much as CX, but were more efficient (given the difficulty of the dine on demand task). Purser in our cabin was fun to talk to as she was Brazilian and we were going to South America for first time.
- the seat (I think I got the "angled flat" seats that OP described, but I am inclined to be kinder and say they are "almost flat" as "angled flat" to me is something like J on a TG 744) is probably not the best for overnight sleeping, but for an 18-hour lounging (we engaged on a movie marathon)/napping flight for a couple, it was just as good if not better
- I don't think OP is much of a drinker cos QR wines puts CX to shame

fallinasleep

I experienced the absolute worst in-flight service on my most recent transpac J flight on CX (and I've had some lousy experiences), whereas I still fondly recall the lone flight I took in QR J. QR's 2-2-2 seating config is not ideal but it was a daytime flight and I really thought the service was excellent (goes without saying that the food is better on QR too).

Apologies for the size of the image (not sure how to reduce it size), but this is how my mid-flight tea was served on my last flight (after waiting 15 minutes). But what really annoyed me was the randomness in service, including water bottle roulette (in the same cabin, some pax got Evian, some got Crystal Geyser, and some got nothing) and incomplete meal services. Seemed that the crew was doing as little as they could get away with, and it wasn't even a full cabin.