CX cancel even more F cabins

Old Jan 29, 16, 7:54 pm
  #1  
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CX cancel even more F cabins

I enjoy CX's First product and my wife and I have probably used it over a hundred times, normally as part of a Round-the-World oneworld fare.

BUT, it's becoming harder and harder to justify when CX cancels F cabins at relatively short notice. Over recent years I've paid for First and had to "downgrade" to Business with no compensation or ability to change my destinations. The most recent change over the last two weeks was CX withdrawing F on HKG-KIX. I've experienced the same: HKG-SIN, HKG-NRT, HKG-SYD, and, most egregiously, HKG-JNB. It's now not possible to fly F "round the world" via South Africa - there's no F service from Asia/Australia (including Qantas).

CX F is one of the best in the sky, but, more and more their timetable changes have left me with a bitter taste. On anything other than the major long haul routes CX has become a lottery. A shame as it's still a great product (when it's provided!)
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Old Jan 29, 16, 9:00 pm
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Respectfully to the OP, CX has not really played roulette with SYD and JNB in F. SYD hasn't has F for ~8 years! And they telegraphed the JNB downgrade. Using your argument, you could say the same for YYZ, AMS and FCO completely, once daily to SFO, YVR, and LAX, etc. The introduction of CX's flat beds in J, 747 retirement and dual fleet type for 77W (77H 4 class, 77G 3 class no F) means they've taken F off routes where it yields less. Sucks but the J bed is quite good, and CX can get killer yields to certain places - like JFK - that justify flying 4x F-equipped planes there daily. Yet others (ZRH and BOS as rumored) have such horrible F yields it seems inevitable the product will be pulled at some point. It isn't our right as customers to force the airlines to sell us unprofitable or unattractively (at least, on a relative yield basis) priced F tickets as part of AONE itineraries when they can upyield that route with a different config without F. Likewise, I guess you might be forced to buy EK if you want to keep F on all destinations.

The second part of your argument I'm very sympathetic to. CX plays roulette with regional F and seems not to care one bit if they change or swap it out, often at the last minute and with little notice. I suspect the vast majority of these passengers are partner redmptions, and the next cohort is probably AONE pax. Quite unfortunate. But CX is doing the cruel math that partner redeemers will still keep coming back, since the longhaul segment is what they care about. And unlike perhaps your insinuation, CX does not play roulette on the long haul routes. Yes, they've taken down F from a number of historical routes. But J has improved markedly and that's just life. The longhaul equipment serving each route is transparent. Unlike the equipment serving short haul, which is unfortunate.

I guess my point is, it seems you have two unrelated complaints. One is just the general reduction of F class service across the fleet. I don't agree with your points, even though I agree in an ideal world CX would fly F everywhere longhaul and we could score AONE tickets anywhere I wanted to go...but not realistic. Perhaps for that reason EK isn't in an alliance. (They do have reasonably priced F fares ex-HKG, fwiw). The second argument is that CX playd roulette with F on regional routes, which is incredibly annoying especially if youre a cash pax...those are people who lose the most. I totally sympathize.

Last edited by QRC3288; Jan 29, 16 at 9:06 pm
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Old Jan 29, 16, 9:07 pm
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CX cancel even more F cabins

I'm surprised about the 'no compensation' bit for downgrades..
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Old Jan 29, 16, 9:18 pm
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Although agreed, if CX downgraded you HKG-JNB F to J (back when that route had F), and didn't compensate you or do anything about it, that is just bad. they even give compensation to redemption tickets!
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Old Jan 29, 16, 11:03 pm
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I'm flying CX F BKK-HKG next week. If they swap planes will they notify me? Or will I just show up and find out I'm bumped to J? No compensation if it happens, correct?
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Old Jan 30, 16, 12:32 am
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Agree with others who are confused over the "no compensation" bit. Were these plain vanilla revenue tickets?
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Old Jan 30, 16, 4:37 am
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I think OP is due comp. But I think it's you snooze you lose - if you don't pursue it they won't give it.

As for withdrawal of F services, if it means more J space (especially redemption space), I'm all for it. After last F I think I really don't find F a value proposition (50% more than J but I just sleep through it).
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Old Jan 30, 16, 6:04 am
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OP says that he typically uses F on RTW (presumably OWE) tickets. If so, he may well not be entitled to compensation if a flight originally scheduled with F is downgauged to J. (An exception would be an ex-Europe flight, where the EU compensation rules would likely apply.)
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Old Jan 30, 16, 6:44 am
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Originally Posted by Single_Flyer View Post
I'm flying CX F BKK-HKG next week. If they swap planes will they notify me? Or will I just show up and find out I'm bumped to J? No compensation if it happens, correct?
From my limited experience, it depends when the plane swap happens.

If it happens in advance (like more than 1-2 days), you may get compensation depending on your fare. I've been on award tickets where the highest class of service applied, and because the remaining sectors were in F, I got nothing. If you have a complex itinerary, the difference between F and J for that sector may also mean little or no refund.

If the swap happens on the day, they give you some cash compensation at the airport. I got this even though I was on an award with other sectors still in F.

Of course if you have a cash sector fare, easy for them to refund you the difference.
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Old Jan 30, 16, 8:37 am
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Originally Posted by Single_Flyer View Post
I'm flying CX F BKK-HKG next week. If they swap planes will they notify me? Or will I just show up and find out I'm bumped to J? No compensation if it happens, correct?
I hope you should get compensated, if you get bumped to J. I have been been told at checkin that they looking for volunteers to downgrade from J to Y+ last year, from BKK to HKG, and that was due to a plane change - last minute I guess.

Compensation was given, and all was done nicely and respectfully.
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Old Jan 30, 16, 10:19 am
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A bit of a stream of consciousness, but here goes:

1) Regional roulette. This has likely been exacerbated by the removal of a 4-class frame from the fleet, and the lack of rotation aircraft to operate regionally. Once the 744's go, there's really no basis for expecting F anywhere regionally. What's more irritating is the gulf between regional J and longhaul J hard product.

2) loss of routes. This is a clear trend. The markets for long haul F are dead or dying. Across the entire system, I suspect I could count all of the markets where CX sells more than 50% of the seats for published cash fares. I would not be in the least surprised to see 888/889 go three class soon. The new CX lounge at YVR won't even have an F class section.

At some point the challenge of keeping a dedicated sub-fleet to operate, say, LHR, ZRH, JFK and LAX probably will add more incremental cost than can reasonably be borne by the fare paying passengers on those routes.
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Old Jan 30, 16, 10:34 am
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Originally Posted by QRC3288 View Post
Respectfully to the OP, CX has not really played roulette with SYD and JNB in F.....
That was not my point. A RTW ticket can be purchased 11 months or so in advance of travel, and then be active for a further 12 months. If a passenger pays for a F ticket and within five months finds that F has been withdrawn (as happened to me with ALL the flights I mentioned) one has a right to feel annoyed, particularly as they treat an AONE fare as being "discounted" and therefore non-compensatable.

Originally Posted by QRC3288 View Post
.....CX plays roulette with regional F and seems not to care one bit if they change or swap it out, often at the last minute and with little notice.....
Exactly. Flying HKG-KIX (for a few days vacation in Kyoto with hotels booked) and with F dumped at 3 months notice, CX is taking their regional F lottery too far. It's made worse as the CX F product is so much better than most of the other airlines, and therefore you know what you're missing and for what you have paid!
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Old Jan 30, 16, 9:28 pm
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Other than a couple of routes (HKG-HND for example) I don't see F as a regional product, it's just luck of the draw. It's a long haul product and is only guaranteed on long haul routes and a couple of select regional routes.

I think once the quad jets have all gone and the A350s have been delivered there will be very little aircraft roulette and consequently very little F left on regional routes.
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Old Jan 30, 16, 10:16 pm
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Originally Posted by QRC3288 View Post
Although agreed, if CX downgraded you HKG-JNB F to J (back when that route had F), and didn't compensate you or do anything about it, that is just bad. they even give compensation to redemption tickets!
There wouldn't be compensation if it's not a same day downgrade. When you book an ANOEx ticket, you will be flying in business class if F is not provided without a reduction in fare.
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Old Jan 30, 16, 11:19 pm
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Originally Posted by phol View Post
Other than a couple of routes (HKG-HND for example)....it's just luck of the draw....
I just wish that, having made the "draw", CX wouldn't then change it!
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