QRC3288

I have also seen a couple in D/G, whinging to the staff. Full flight. The situation IMO seems rather serious; two seats on each flight are in the toilet! It's true those seats are often either empty or ID pax, but I don't see how this is a good excuse.

The pax I saw complaining months back were cash pax - they loudly informed the FAs of this fact - and got those two seats as the last two sitting together according to their TA. Regardless of their annoying behavior I actually sympathize with them. Those seats are a disgrace.

At least on the Qatar and SQ A350s (the other two I've flown), there aren't any seats in the toilet. That CX A350 galley / lav config is customized specifically for CX and was not an original Airbus design. For those of you who are familiar, you'll recognize that CX doesn't have the forward cockpit alley bathroom which is the normal design. Those of you familiar with recognize SQ and QR have the forward "cockpit alley" (as I call it) lav + 2 more by doors 2. CX did away with this

Instead, CX has two lavs by door ONE, and a single lav in the rear galley. It all seems a strange workflow design since I'm pretty sure the bulk of the FA work is forward galley on CX in A359, no?

Anyway, to add to the fun since there is no "cockpit alley" lav, the flight crew and FAs also basically intrude into seats 11D and G to use the bathroom. I realize this is a small point but I find it to be an idiotic design and was easily avoidable by just going with an off-the-shelf and (I think) cheaper Airbus design. I suspect they wanted a layout closer to their A330s and 77G. I'm still not impressed.

I liked the A350 on my first flights. But the more if fly it, I avoid it longhaul now. Still seek it out short haul though due to WiFi and longhaul J.

Cambo

Where I agree (for 100%) with you about the stupidity of the design result, it also shows a "modern" company culture: CX did listen to their staff, cabin crew seemed to be involved with the new A350 cabin layout. It clearly shows that there has been a lot of thought on the "keep the J passengers in their cabin, separated from the galley" principle. From a customer experience perspective, this does not sound that bad, though the implementation works out disappointing, to say the least.

Unfortunately, when you work out a design, based on staff wishes, it does require an overruling vote from those representing the passengers, hey, the customers. Seems, CX skipped that part.

Regarding the small galleys, I do think, the forward galley was though to be a similar importance as on the LH 777, which I think, may not have worked out. The same for the size of the A350 galley itself. Somewhat small, so to say.

On the other hand, given the technical limitations, it's not that much simple to have one large J cabin on the -900 and have the galley and toilets between the J and PE cabin (and as such making the self-upgraders and PE toilet skippers their life significantly more difficult).

Toilets (and galleys somewhat) need a technical infrastructure underneath the floor. Given the wing location and the fuel cells in the wing box, there is simply no room for equipment over there. Have a look, Fuel cells A350:
This picture comes from: A350 blog

I certainly do think, CX, did notice this long before the A359 got delivered, but alas, these things do have a very long lead-time, think about 5 years. Once the designs (art & tech) are approved, contracts are signed, it is pretty well impossible to change things having this kind of impact.

Moving the toilet door to the front might have been an option, though it could very well be, this is not allowed due to security reasons (being next to the entry door L1), or simply the toilet interior simply does not fit. Think about the L2 door toilet at the 777, which does have some more space to work wirh.

Another aspect that may also influence the continue / redesign choice, is that the toilet supplier seems to have quality control problems. Forget about changing a design, with a company already in problems with regular demand.

What to do about this:
- Be creative with curtains.
- Assign 11D/G only to (nearly) free riders and block the sales of these seats for high paying customers.
- On the A359 kick out these Row 11 toilets completely, put J seats there and swap the no-windows 19A/F seats for a Toilet unit. Would require significant underfloor redesign, though who knows, it's possible.
- Sell the A350's and redo

percysmith

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Isnt' this a problem from the 33G era https://web.archive.org/web/20110527...pacific-s-a330 ?

QRC3288

Although similar in theory, totally different in reality. 11D/G on A350 are highly unique for their "inside the toilet" status. The curtains, designed to help actually make the problem worse by brushing into those seats space every time someone uses it. It's close to impossible to avoid intruding on those seats real estate if you use the lav; when there is 1 person waiting it's basically impossible.

Just very bad design. I haven't yet had to sit in them but I would be quite ticked off if I did.

The right move is for them not to sell those seats for cash. I don't think that'll happen though. It's just too enticing with two extra seats and revenue waiting to be plucked to sell the seats and deal with the complaints after. In many cases even when passengers are angry they still won't complain. In a company like CX lacking real ownership among the management ranks, something that harms CX like this somewhat nebulously, but doesn't really impact the bottom line for this or next year's bonus doesn't really matter.

gear down

i would totally disagree that the working group for the 350 agreed on the galley design. the small galley is basically a "storage" area and the crew are unable to work. meals are being transferred from the storage area to the galley. it is a really poor design in which management could not give a dollop about. no crew likes working on the 350, but it seems CX finds them better (read 'cheaper') than the 777s. the only people that gives rave reviews are the management themselves

Cambo

Today, I did do B-LRB, an A359, seemingly significantly improved, my remarks:
- J seats on par with what it should have been 1 year ago. No more wear&tear on the fabric, decent padding, mechanics does feel sturdy, electric motors not longer stalling under the body weight, side pads no longer pointing random directions, aisle side armrest nicely moving up and down (though it needed some initial help to come up), suitable side table finish, etc, etc.
- Toilet L1 no more cracks, except a minor issue behind the mirror, where obviously something is wiping of the silver lining from the back of the mirror.
- Installed a reasonable curtain layout for seats 11D/G (Did they listen to me ).
- Crew no longer seems to use the closets on the cabin side of the toilet for catering. Seems to be a location to store passenger coats and alike.
- The luggage bins do feel much more sturdy.
- The whole seat/table finish feels far more sturdy and less vulnerable to daily wear&tear.
- Did they change the magazine/paper holder ? It now feels no longer in the way
- Feel free to extend

Where the headphone door was in the past one of the somewhat acceptable items, it now feels to be the lesser quality item.

It could be my imagination, though I get the feeling, there is significantly less rattle in J cabin on this ship. The whole cabin simply feels more sturdy.

Or so to say: CX well done !

And: Indeed, a proper choice, long ago, to continue with this seat type and solve the technical issues, despite all expected comments.

sxc

How has the curtain changed? I can't really work out the difference.

I was on B-LRI this past week, and the toilets are still in a terrible state. Cracked toilet rim, seems to be constantly wet, floor sticky, stained wash bowl. Just gross.

Cambo

Yeah, the picture would need some 3D, to get it more clear, let me explain in verbal 3D.

The original curtain was between toilet (somewhat at the L1 door side of the toilet door) and the galley, just straight across the isle. That curtain (with the exit light at the top) is still there, though largely unused.

They did put in a new curtain, starting somewhat at the same location on the galley side and the with a nice curve (along seat 11D/G) to the other side of the isle, but now on the cabin side of the toilet door. It ends between the toilet door and the closet. It's a pretty heavy curtain. The layout is in such a way, people are not tempted to go between the curtain and the 11D/G seat. And there is a new exit light at the top of that curtain rail.

It takes care, the 11D/G passenger is no longer interfered with the people entering the toilet nor by people going through the isle, between cabin and galley.

Of course, the drawback is the somewhat "curtain enclosed" 11D/G seat, though that's significantly better then the intrusion (physical, visual, sound as well as stench), etc.

Toilet was nice and clean, despite the plane on the fourth segment of the day (being HKG-BKK-SIN-BKK-HKG). It looked quite new.

I assume, CX is doing some maintenance on the A350, to refresh the J Cabin towards acceptable standards. I assume too, CX will also be upgrading the other A350's (both 900 and 1000). Maybe somebody with more inside CX knowledge can ask around and jump in.

sxc

@Cambo I think that curtain has always been there, but is the main difference that they have anchored the curtain on the middle part of the fuselage, rather than on the left/right side of the fuselage, therefore forcing people away from D/G seats?

Cambo

Maybe, if so, why the complains ? With the curtain being used, it is not ideal, though certainly not that bad.

G-CIVC

Fake news, no refreshes have been done.

QRC3288

Haha mate, there is no change to the curtains! That's identical to how it has always been.

​​​​​​And it's definitely problematic. I watched last week a passenger literally walk through the anchored side (coming from the galley), through the passenger seat 11D. Even without this extremely result, there is only so much room, unfortunately and those seats + curtain + lav position don't offer it. CX is kinda damned if they do damned if they don't here, it would be gross for them NOT to have the curtain. When it's pulled back you can see how close the galley is to the seat. But adding the curtain just further intrudes into those passengers space.

I'm coming up on nearly 25 flights on those CX birds, all but maybe one or two in J...it may not be terrible every minute of every flight. But it's bad.. they are easily the worst J seats I've ever seen. And I have seen two separate incidents with passengers complaining about those seats, 4 passengers in total / 2 seat pairs all relating to 11D/G. Contrast that with 77H, a plane I think I have 100+ flights on and I'd bet 60pct in J, only once in my life have I seen a complaint. A Diamond member loudly yelling in the cabin pre departure "I am a Diamond member! I don't like this seat!" (seriously) in CDG, complaining about 15A the seat without windows.

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marcommm

35G is coming to FRA starting 31 March, 3 times a week CX282/283

zeltergiset

ZRH seems to be changing to 35G from 31 March too.

gpia