Worst case of DYKWIA...

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Old Nov 16, 15, 2:13 am
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by sxc View Post
I am not making any judgement on the way the OP handled this situation, but the agent in the lounge seems to have been grossly incompetent. The buggys don't come to the lounge, they give you a voucher and you have to go down from level7 to level 6.

If you were entitled to a voucher, they should have given it to you and told you to head off. It sounds like this agent didn't know what the buggy was and was probably in a holding pattern trying to work out what your request was.
Well, taipeiflyer has stated he's a frequent flyer with over 600 flights, of which many must have been through HKG. The fact that he's NOT familiar with the buggy system (contradicting to what he's stating) lets me wonder.

As you state correctly, the buggy's won't go up to level7 - you've to catch them at level 6. Or even more detailed:

https://www.hongkongairport.com/eng/...transport.html

"This service is provided by Worldwide Flight Services. Departing passengers can procure the service at the two service counters at both ends of Departures East Hall, Level 6, Terminal 1."

So, even if the lounge could have called a buggy to pick him up just outside / down the lounge, it would be from yet another service provider (Lounge / Buggy / Gate) - again, anyone with experience should realise that this won't bode well when called just 10 minutes before gate closure and being told "it's in 5 minutes" - even if it would have been available in 5minutes, chances are they only drive off 7-8 minutes later (getting informed, getting downstairs, boarding the buggy, placing luggage etc.), and only reach the gate about 15minutes prior to departure - ie, exactly when the Gate is due to close.

That is WAY too close. If taipeiflyer always cuts things so close, he must be the most lucky person on Earth to never ever miss another flight.

When you walk yourself, and you know there isn't anything you're dependant on, you can of course cut things quite close. But if you've to wait for a shuttle, train, bus, whatever, it's just common sense to keep enough spare time for something to be delayed. Even IF all would have perfectly worked out, he would have had hardly a minute to spare!

The "buggy question" leaves more question marks in my head than it got cleared up. I just don't see why an experienced flyer would cut things so close - and if they don't work out as he hoped, would go on a DYKWIA-show in the lounge. Again, nothing having to do with the "assault" (I wouldn't call that an assault, by the way..) later on, when someone got pissed on his complaining..

Now he'll probably try to tell me off again as before when he read something that doesn't suit him
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Old Nov 16, 15, 2:19 am
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Originally Posted by taipeiflyer View Post
like i said, you are free to draw your own conclusions. based on your comment, i can draw the conclusion that if you are ever assaulted in Asia, you have no reasonable expectation of involving the police. cheers.
Something worth nothing - I strongly disagree with that persons view of the situation and assuming it happened how you state its all pretty understandable. Even being calm enough to ask for police shows quite a bit of restraint (I probably would have had a physical response to someone grabbing me by the throat) and to then be ignored by CX staff....
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Old Nov 16, 15, 2:22 am
  #78  
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Originally Posted by YuropFlyer View Post
No assault on you would have happened...
This is the repeated concept from this discussion that I REALLY don't understand and quite frankly find very disturbing. Call me an uppity American if you want to, but to me this physical assault should be treated as totally separate from anything else that transpired up until that point, since OP didn't "throw the first punch" nor created an imminent threat that the assailant had to defend against.

And let's call the assailant what he is... I'm sorry if I'm being a naive American again, but I think in most cultures, grabbing someone BY THE THROAT is as aggressive and over-the-line as it gets. It's not a slight tap or even a shove... that's a move that's meant to do harm.

And let's get this straight... OP didn't have the last opportunity to avoid the assault... the assailant did, by not assaulting OP.

I find the CX staff trying to avoid the confrontation, not assisting the OP, and trying to avoid police involvement downright pathetic. I find the defense of the CX staff's actions to be ludicrous. I find using cultural differences to excuse the assault insulting. And I find OP being blamed for the assault on him laughable at best.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 3:05 am
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IceTrojan, it's all down to what the assault really was.

Was is merely holding both hands on his shoulders (as in, boy, stop right now) or was he trying to strangle him "properly" by his throat? We only have his word (so it might or might not be biased) on this case.

I agree with you that physical contact should not be happening, period.

But if it was just an intoxicated person overreacting (and hardly having the intention of harming him) and touching him a bit too intense? Again, we do not have any proof of what really happened. If it was a proper assault - which might very well be the case - then I could absolutely understand why he wanted to call the police.

But again - we're not really talking about the assault situation, but rather about his reaction to the staff. Obviously staff did a mistake by not being honest to him (that's DEFINITELY culture difference.. knowing Asia well I would just have walked in that case myself) but that still didn't give him the right to complain in the way he did it. He should have known better.

Also, one should take in consideration that words very well can be considered an assault, too. I think in the US, the difference is more strict - words allowed, touching isn't, but in Asia, my personal experience is that sometimes words are as strongly interpreted - or even more - than personal contact.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 3:34 am
  #80  
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We take all comments on face value

We also have an offence here of misusing police resources/making false report, so if the police were called as said in YouTube video comments then I'm inclined to believe this is an actual assault.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 5:06 am
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When my house is on fire, I will call the fire brigade;

When I whizzed through a familiar lounge and got "assaulted", I would call the police personally.

The fine Hong Kong Police force is able to comprehend English and would be able to act rather quickly.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 9:28 am
  #82  
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Originally Posted by percysmith View Post
I just reviewed my missus's BP and found they're really using 30 minutes instead of 20 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post25716350 .

I find I'm less able to respect these requests when they're really just a Cover My Axx pure play and even less representative of what staff are actually meant to be doing on the ground.
whats the point, when they end up delaying the flight for 30 minutes waiting for late transiting passengers whilst making up rules of their own.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 9:33 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by taipeiflyer View Post
I was not expecting to get ON the buggy in the lounge. I merely asked the lounge agent to request one for me, and she would inform us when it had arrived. the only other time i have taken a buggy at HKG, it was offered voluntarily. When we requested it, no discussion of vouchers or payment was mentioned, so in my experience, it is a service provided to anyone on a Trans-ocean F ticket. YMMV
I don't think buggy service to the departure gate is provided to anyone on a transoceanic F ticket. AFAIK:
* It is only provided to CX DM.
* Departure is from Gate 40-80.
* The flight can be to anywhere.
* It does not matter which cabin the passenger is flying on.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 9:37 am
  #84  
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Originally Posted by sxc View Post
I am not making any judgement on the way the OP handled this situation, but the agent in the lounge seems to have been grossly incompetent. The buggys don't come to the lounge, they give you a voucher and you have to go down from level7 to level 6.

If you were entitled to a voucher, they should have given it to you and told you to head off. It sounds like this agent didn't know what the buggy was and was probably in a holding pattern trying to work out what your request was.
Possibly, but in my experience the lounge agents should know that very well.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 9:48 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by taipeiflyer View Post
so we walk back to the lounge, and i said to the agent, "that was very disappointing- you told us to wait, and then we did and then we realized the buggie was not coming and we walked and missed our flight." My companion was less diplomatic and chimed in: "this is bull$%*&- very unprofessional." Another passenger who was next to us said, "I don't pay for first class to hear your complaint." I looked at him and said "sir, this does not concern you." At that point, he said "%$#@ you" and grabbed me by the throat. I pushed him off, and then asked CX to call the police.
Please let your companion know that there are by-laws against profanity in some public places in Hong Kong. IIRC, these places include The Ocean Park, MTR/Stations, and possibly the HKIA. Your friend and the assaulter can both be charged. (Note: He can still be charged within the statute of limitation. There was a very recent case on someone videotaped a couple engaged in sexual activity in the public. The video went viral like this one. The police originally did not follow up, but they did a few days later and charged the couple.)
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Old Nov 16, 15, 10:56 am
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For what it is worth I have never received a buggy from any CX lounge at HKIA after any of my transpacific flights - which are always in F - unless I have been connecting to a far gate nor have I ever requested a buggy come to the lounge. I have been provided with a voucher on a number of occasions and have also been collected from far gates. Demanding a buggy come to pick you up from the lounge is very "DYKWIA" behaviour (not that it is actually physically possible).

Quite frankly this situation reflects very poorly on you and your colleagues. I stand by my view that whatever occurred there was no excuse for your behaviour as portrayed in the youtube video. Were you employed at my firm and the video were to come to our attention you would very probably be suspended and the subject of a disciplinary investigation for bringing the company into disrepute.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 11:09 am
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Originally Posted by sebastiansw3 View Post
Demanding a buggy come to pick you up from the lounge is very "DYKWIA" behaviour (not that it is actually physically possible).
Lmao- I never demanded anything. I requested one and they said it wasn't a problem. Nor did I ever ask for one to come and actually pick me up in the lounge- I was simply told to wait in the lounge until it arrived. I only came on here to provide some context and clarity- but when people continue to distort and attribute things to me that I never said or did, it is not a winning proposition for anyone. Nor was I traveling with colleagues. Nor was I traveling on business. I was traveling with friends on holiday- but of course you knew all that. Others can feel free to chime in and offer their feedback, but I have nothing further to provide. Best regards to all.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 12:50 pm
  #88  
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Originally Posted by taipeiflyer View Post
thank you cathay and percy for the reasoned responses, even though they are coming from different angles. i absolutely believe i could have handled the situation better, which is why i did apologize. i know CX believes they could have handled the situation better as well, which is why they apologized. when someone puts their hands on you, it can sometimes cause you to react in an irrational manner, which was compounded by the fact that CX simply wanted to sweep it under the rug.
Very, very impressed that you 1. shared your side of things here and, 2. how you're handling some of the comments here now that you are "real" (and FT member-- as opposed to an abstraction.)
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Old Nov 16, 15, 12:58 pm
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Originally Posted by jacobsleather View Post
But you wouldn't have been assaulted if you had just got to your gate on time, instead of waiting until the last minute and calling for a buggy, which was too late, causing you to get mad...
By your logic then, getting assaulted is just part of the karma for missing a flight and being frustrated at the situation, and should be tolerated?

Before taiperflyer jumped in, dbag in the video is definitely a dbag, but now with the backstory laid out I can totally understand the level of frustration he exhibited. Can't say I would have held the same level of restraint against a person putting their hand on my throat if I was in the same situation.
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Old Nov 16, 15, 4:35 pm
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Taking about missing flights, it reminds me of this:

http://youtu.be/BwBU8QIbZuY
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