Onto 11th year as a DM

Old Sep 19, 15, 8:46 pm
  #1  
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Onto 11th year as a DM

Would be cool if CX / MPC did some recognition for milestones like 10 consecutive years as a DM.
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Old Sep 19, 15, 9:00 pm
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congrats mate! Quite impressive.

I am not to your length...but share your sentiments wishing there was some mechanism to honor longer-term revenue contributors over the years.

Right now, the system is setup to reward short-term corporate spending with virtually nothing for long-term, multi-year loyalty at the individual level. (Heck, there aren't even strong incentives to stick around with CX after you've cleared the 120k hurdle in any given year.) Certainly someone who loyally spends a variable $15-$75k USD/year for a decade while maintaining DM is quite valuable to CX....I'd argue significantly more valuable than a person on a 3-year banking stint who perhaps spends a guaranteed $50k USD each year for 3 years, but will inevitably move on from that job, or move away from Hong Kong, or whatever. Loyalty of the corporate crowd is less about individual loyalty, and far more about "seat" loyalty - that seat at Goldman or Morgan or JPM or whatnot will generate xxx in revenue to CX per year regardless of who sits in it. And as a result, this banker (or presumably lawyer, or consultant, or whatnot) in my latter example likely has very little decision-making authority over his own spending, despite earning a high salary. Whereas the former has not only contributed hundreds of thousands of USD in revenue over a decade, but also has significant discretion over that spend.
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Old Sep 19, 15, 10:27 pm
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Lifetime DM? I recall someone showing me their crystal/glass recognition plaque for LT DM circa 1997.
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Old Sep 19, 15, 10:28 pm
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Nothing.
At least, I don't remember.

I have been DM since 2002.
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Old Sep 20, 15, 4:31 am
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Any chance they will bring back lifetime DM when they revamp MPC next year?
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Old Sep 20, 15, 4:39 am
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Originally Posted by Wasabi Tofu View Post
Nothing.
At least, I don't remember.

I have been DM since 2002.
wow..even more congrats.

Originally Posted by chfshifter View Post
Any chance they will bring back lifetime DM when they revamp MPC next year?
we can always dream I guess.... Not optimistic.

End of the year I should probably show CX my receipts; in 2015 they've gotten my economy regional travel and discounted biz travel. For the first time as a 7+ year DM, I've spent more on CX's direct competition - EK, BR and SQ - than CX. I'll retain DM, but my spend is going elsewhere as they contemplate this loyalty program downgrade and the abovementioned airlines catch up (or at least, become known to me) with the hard product. It will be killer if QR ever flies the A350, B787 or A380 to HKG. That will be the nail in the coffin for me.
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Old Sep 20, 15, 1:57 pm
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Originally Posted by QRC3288 View Post
End of the year I should probably show CX my receipts; in 2015 they've gotten my economy regional travel and discounted biz travel. For the first time as a 7+ year DM, I've spent more on CX's direct competition - EK, BR and SQ - than CX. I'll retain DM, but my spend is going elsewhere as they contemplate this loyalty program downgrade and the abovementioned airlines catch up (or at least, become known to me) with the hard product. It will be killer if QR ever flies the A350, B787 or A380 to HKG. That will be the nail in the coffin for me.
CX has a real opportunity to make the loyalty program something unique and innovative which links the top level strategic direction of program with the overall revenue goals of the airline. There's a lot of talk about de-valuation and this scares me because CX doesn't exactly have the world's best CRM or FF business intelligence people on the case.

For example - there are systems out there that can feed in this exact scenario you describe where CX would know the share of your wallet they're receiving and as their % of your spend goes down year on year, combined with other data they have it's possible to spot you as a potential churning customer before you make the move. As you say - once you're gone that's it you're likely never to go back - especially with no lingering lifetime benefits. This is another opportunity for Ed and the team to introduce something incredible and take the gamification of the product to a new level where the high revenue opportunities lay ripe for the taking.

I think we are all hoping CX don't screw it up.

For example if we look at the current program - you're almost always better off crediting flights to another Oneworld program to get the most bang for your buck on redemptions. If they were to devalue the earning it would wipe the program off the map for a large section of the audience. I'm sure CX knows this but you never know... Swire might be calling the shots.
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Old Sep 20, 15, 2:12 pm
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congratulations!

Before people start to 'hope' CX have lifetime recognition, my question to you is:

You know CX does not have lifetime recognition at the start of membership year, should you actually feel that you have been stupid or ignorance to choose CX programme at the start?

I would like to congratulate you a second time, but for wasting 11 years of your life not to achieve a lifetime status with any airlines.

In your last 11 years of flying, you could have qualified:
1>, Asiana lifetime Star Gold
2>, Air China lifetime platinum
3>, Air France lifetime Platinum and
4>, Qantas lifetime Gold

And with the amount of flying you are doing, you could have qualified all four of them!

[/sarcasm]
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Old Sep 20, 15, 3:03 pm
  #9  
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Originally Posted by d00t View Post
For example if we look at the current program - you're almost always better off crediting flights to another Oneworld program to get the most bang for your buck on redemptions. If they were to devalue the earning it would wipe the program off the map for a large section of the audience. I'm sure CX knows this but you never know... Swire might be calling the shots.
Life members will start flying other airlines knowing they can retain their DM status anyway. From a business POV, it makes more sense that they do not restart their Life membership programme so they have to continue to earn the status if they do enjoy it.

Having said that, it will be good to give a special status similar to DMP for those who are keeping DM consecutively for 10 or more years.
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Old Sep 20, 15, 6:17 pm
  #10  
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Originally Posted by chongcao View Post
congratulations!

Before people start to 'hope' CX have lifetime recognition, my question to you is:

You know CX does not have lifetime recognition at the start of membership year, should you actually feel that you have been stupid or ignorance to choose CX programme at the start?

I would like to congratulate you a second time, but for wasting 11 years of your life not to achieve a lifetime status with any airlines.

In your last 11 years of flying, you could have qualified:
1>, Asiana lifetime Star Gold
2>, Air China lifetime platinum
3>, Air France lifetime Platinum and
4>, Qantas lifetime Gold

And with the amount of flying you are doing, you could have qualified all four of them!

[/sarcasm]
You're the helpful sort. Good to know.

Last edited by Jane's Addiction; Sep 20, 15 at 7:00 pm
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Old Sep 20, 15, 10:37 pm
  #11  
 
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About lifetime 2nd tier status, NH and JL provide credit card based status.
So, I don't have to accumulate many miles in those programs.
When you earn 2nd tier status (OW sapphire), star GOLD) once, you can apply credit card based program for NH and JL.
So there are so many non-heavy flying 2nd tier status holders in Japan.

Anyway, I value CX's guarantee seat and upgrad award.
However, basically, I plan minimum 120,000 miles for CX, and remaining flights are went to NH program. One of reasons are Japan domestic earning rate (between JL for CX and NH for NH). But, mainly because of no strong incentive of over 120,000miles for CX.
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Old Sep 21, 15, 5:04 am
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Originally Posted by QRC3288 View Post
Right now, the system is setup to reward short-term corporate spending with virtually nothing for long-term, multi-year loyalty at the individual level. (Heck, there aren't even strong incentives to stick around with CX after you've cleared the 120k hurdle in any given year.) Certainly someone who loyally spends a variable $15-$75k USD/year for a decade while maintaining DM is quite valuable to CX....I'd argue significantly more valuable than a person on a 3-year banking stint who perhaps spends a guaranteed $50k USD each year for 3 years, but will inevitably move on from that job, or move away from Hong Kong, or whatever. Loyalty of the corporate crowd is less about individual loyalty, and far more about "seat" loyalty - that seat at Goldman or Morgan or JPM or whatnot will generate xxx in revenue to CX per year regardless of who sits in it. And as a result, this banker (or presumably lawyer, or consultant, or whatnot) in my latter example likely has very little decision-making authority over his own spending, despite earning a high salary. Whereas the former has not only contributed hundreds of thousands of USD in revenue over a decade, but also has significant discretion over that spend.
As the Head of Corporate Travel for a large company you'd perhaps expect that I have a different perspective. I would certainly disagree with your view that an individual regularly spending with CX is more valuable than the continued retention of the account belonging to a large company. In terms of corporate travel my department has managed annual spend in excess of US$250M. A significant proportion of that to airlines and a substantial amount to CX alone. That revenue reoccurs year on year and dwarfs individual spending many times over. I expect CX to reward the loyalty of not just my company but also those members of our staff who travel. My department regularly benchmarks satisfaction levels within our staff and I wouldn't hesitate to place a contract on review if colleagues were unhappy in any way.
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Old Sep 21, 15, 7:32 am
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Originally Posted by sebastiansw3 View Post
As the Head of Corporate Travel for a large company you'd perhaps expect that I have a different perspective. I would certainly disagree with your view that an individual regularly spending with CX is more valuable than the continued retention of the account belonging to a large company. In terms of corporate travel my department has managed annual spend in excess of US$250M. A significant proportion of that to airlines and a substantial amount to CX alone. That revenue reoccurs year on year and dwarfs individual spending many times over. I expect CX to reward the loyalty of not just my company but also those members of our staff who travel. My department regularly benchmarks satisfaction levels within our staff and I wouldn't hesitate to place a contract on review if colleagues were unhappy in any way.
Sebastian,

can you give a few examples of things you get for your teammates with CX? (for example, new team member in HKG, say mid level gal left NY, could you get her DM right away on the basis she will be 'flying a lot and getting it and should not start from the bottom floor'?
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Old Sep 21, 15, 8:08 am
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Originally Posted by seaskybound View Post
Sebastian,

can you give a few examples of things you get for your teammates with CX? (for example, new team member in HKG, say mid level gal left NY, could you get her DM right away on the basis she will be 'flying a lot and getting it and should not start from the bottom floor'?
We have a specific number of "status" cards to allocate amongst our staff. This is the same for CX as with nearly all companies with whom we have a contract - hotels etc. It's unlikely that I'd specifically look out for a new hire to receive instant status unless for example they had status with an airline that wasn't part of our corporate travel policy and had asked as part of their contract negotiations for something to be worked out. Even then it would be unlikely as virtually all of our corporate flying is done in premium cabins - at least for midlevel employees upwards - and thus they will earn status relatively quickly.
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Old Sep 21, 15, 6:10 pm
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Originally Posted by sebastiansw3 View Post
As the Head of Corporate Travel for a large company you'd perhaps expect that I have a different perspective. I would certainly disagree with your view that an individual regularly spending with CX is more valuable than the continued retention of the account belonging to a large company. In terms of corporate travel my department has managed annual spend in excess of US$250M. A significant proportion of that to airlines and a substantial amount to CX alone. That revenue reoccurs year on year and dwarfs individual spending many times over. I expect CX to reward the loyalty of not just my company but also those members of our staff who travel. My department regularly benchmarks satisfaction levels within our staff and I wouldn't hesitate to place a contract on review if colleagues were unhappy in any way.
Thanks for your perspective. Much appreciated.

I guess if this is the route CX chooses, they are going to lose my business. Hard for me to argue otherwise. You make a compelling point. I would say it is in line with the "seat" argument I made above, although I clearly overlooked the competitive nature of corporate contracts.

That said, ive spent between 15k usd on my lowest year to 150k usd or so on my highest year for going on 8 years as DM with CX. This year my travel spend has increased significantly, but i doubt ill top 25k usd of revenue on CX/KA in 2015. Maybe even closer to 20k depending how i book some upcoming travel. Fyi, my 2015 total travel spend will be between 55 and 75k USD depending how the 4th quarter shakes out. So CX/KA will earn less than half my annual travel revenue this year....unfathomable to me a few years ago!

The reason is basically the timing of my frequent flier "enlightenment" combined with expansion and upgrading of competitors. This "enlightenment" is directly related to the (relatively) uncompetitive nature of AM/MPC, particularly regarding me as an individual personally paying for all my tickets. I recently discovered I've been a relative fool to stash all my miles with AM for so long, and also a fool for not to test the competition. Both mistakes are on me....especially given I use FT, even more inexcusable for me not to pay attention to any other forums but this one! Either way, if CX keeps its program clearly geared towards the corporate at the expense of the individual (ie, appeasing the seat owner and not the seat occupier), it just doesn't make sense for me to be as loyal as I have been. I certainly don't see the benefits that a corporate can score given its scale of contract vs the insignificance of my business as one individual. And for many reasons we have discussed elsewhere, the "pros" of MPC point to a program geared towards corporates. It is a solid program in that sense.

I guess the guys rejiggering MPC can consider it all. I do think a relatively "easy" way to get the best of both worlds is simply offer some form of targeted lifetime membership, without changing the corporate side you face. If someone like the OP of this intriguing thread, or wasabi tofu, or janes addiction have been DM for xx years, chances are they are not doing it within a single corporate but have been loyal to CX across corporate platforms OR perhaps as an individual, presumably a business owner themselves. This would indicate some level of significant individual loyalty that is, collectively, valuable to CX.

I must admit, individually we are ants compared to your corporate budget....but together I suspect we have at least respectable buying power. My bet is while individually we are squat compared to your budget, the average long-term DM traveler like ourselves has a significantly higher annual revenue contribution to CX than the average corporate worker. Our problem is we simply lack any scale whatsoever as a group...we are woefully fragmented and thus have very little leverage over CX. But as individuals, I am fairly confident we can spend more than the average Joe. The discovery that my personal dollar can go farther elsewhere has led me to EK, BR and SQ this year....and I am not disappointed!

Anyway I am grateful for your perspective thank you for adding it. Would be keen for any more thoughts.

Last edited by QRC3288; Sep 21, 15 at 6:19 pm
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