Jun 19, 2017, 9:34 pm
Last edit by: ernestnywang
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards Wiki v0.1
Rules
1. You need two non CX/KA carriers
2. You are allowed 5 stopovers, 2 transits (<=24hrs) and 2 open jaws. You can use your stopover allowance as a transit, possibly by asking for it to be ticketed as such (extra taxes?). [Using stopover for transit is no longer possible since 2021/22?]
3. The open-jaw points do not count towards your stopover allowance. Neither does the final city on the itinerary
4. You must start and end in the same country.
5. To determine the miles required, add up all flight sectors on your itinerary and look up the award chart (ignore the distance between open-jaw points). gcmap.com is handy, though best to go via asiamiles' calculator.
6. Co-terminals (NRT/HND, LHR/LCY) do not count as an open-jaw (takes up 1 stopover/transit allowance).
If an itinerary clears the above, it is valid, though you may have to argue a lot back and forth. Keep your patience suit on and and keep referring to the terms & conditions ("What in the T&Cs makes this invalid" tends to work).
For the examples below, x=transit, o=stopover, and capitalized alphabets represent airports.
Some valid routings that have commonly been pushed back on
1. "You cannot go through the start, destination, or enroute point more than once". A-oB-oA-oC-oD-A is a valid itinerary.
2. "An open-jaw point is a stopover". A-oB-oC-D//E-oF-G//H-oI-oJ-A is valid, as is A-oB-xC-D//E-oF-G//H-xI-oJ-oK-oL-A.
Other tips
1. Tickets are valid for 1 year from the date of issuance. Potentially a pain when planning that dream RTW trip involving LATAM/AA which release seats 330 days out, that you're trying to tee-in with CX award seats released a year out.
2. A combination of BA/AA/LATAM/QF sites works well to research availability (look for saver availability)
3. You can go crazy on the routings- A-oB-A//C-oD-C//E-A is fine if A,B,E are in country/Region # 1, and, C,D are at the other end of the world.
Rules
1. You need two non CX/KA carriers
2. You are allowed 5 stopovers, 2 transits (<=24hrs) and 2 open jaws. You can use your stopover allowance as a transit, possibly by asking for it to be ticketed as such (extra taxes?). [Using stopover for transit is no longer possible since 2021/22?]
3. The open-jaw points do not count towards your stopover allowance. Neither does the final city on the itinerary
4. You must start and end in the same country.
5. To determine the miles required, add up all flight sectors on your itinerary and look up the award chart (ignore the distance between open-jaw points). gcmap.com is handy, though best to go via asiamiles' calculator.
6. Co-terminals (NRT/HND, LHR/LCY) do not count as an open-jaw (takes up 1 stopover/transit allowance).
If an itinerary clears the above, it is valid, though you may have to argue a lot back and forth. Keep your patience suit on and and keep referring to the terms & conditions ("What in the T&Cs makes this invalid" tends to work).
For the examples below, x=transit, o=stopover, and capitalized alphabets represent airports.
Some valid routings that have commonly been pushed back on
1. "You cannot go through the start, destination, or enroute point more than once". A-oB-oA-oC-oD-A is a valid itinerary.
2. "An open-jaw point is a stopover". A-oB-oC-D//E-oF-G//H-oI-oJ-A is valid, as is A-oB-xC-D//E-oF-G//H-xI-oJ-oK-oL-A.
Other tips
1. Tickets are valid for 1 year from the date of issuance. Potentially a pain when planning that dream RTW trip involving LATAM/AA which release seats 330 days out, that you're trying to tee-in with CX award seats released a year out.
2. A combination of BA/AA/LATAM/QF sites works well to research availability (look for saver availability)
3. You can go crazy on the routings- A-oB-A//C-oD-C//E-A is fine if A,B,E are in country/Region # 1, and, C,D are at the other end of the world.
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
Nov 6, 2017, 4:53 pm
#526
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
1) I use Sabre, a GDS for travel agents not accessible to the general public.
2) Look at the "TAX" field and you will only see "CN" (PVG departure tax). There is no "YQ" or "YR," so no fuel surcharge. I used PVG-MAD as an example and forced the system to quote using CX plate.
2) Look at the "TAX" field and you will only see "CN" (PVG departure tax). There is no "YQ" or "YR," so no fuel surcharge. I used PVG-MAD as an example and forced the system to quote using CX plate.
would expertflyer be able to look up these type of information?
(I have a oneworld explorer plated by CX and need to figure out how to minimize YQ and increased flown miles).
The CX agent can only quote me when i give them a routing.
Nov 6, 2017, 5:02 pm
#528
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: HKG
Programs: BA Silver, MU Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 482
1) I use Sabre, a GDS for travel agents not accessible to the general public.
2) Look at the "TAX" field and you will only see "CN" (PVG departure tax). There is no "YQ" or "YR," so no fuel surcharge. I used PVG-MAD as an example and forced the system to quote using CX plate.
2) Look at the "TAX" field and you will only see "CN" (PVG departure tax). There is no "YQ" or "YR," so no fuel surcharge. I used PVG-MAD as an example and forced the system to quote using CX plate.
Nov 6, 2017, 5:48 pm
#529
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
there is no YQ on AA and YQ on BA.
not sure about redemption. i always thought that using ITA would be good enough but that is not totally true.
Nov 7, 2017, 12:16 am
#531
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TPE / HSZ
Programs: CX GO (=SPH), IHG Diamond Amb, Hertz 5*, Accor, Hilton, National
Posts: 6,437
Code:
*I«
1 AA 176J 01DEC 5 NRTDFW SS1 1130 0755 /DCAA /E
WPACX‡MUSD«
PSGR TYPE ADT - 01
CXR RES DATE FARE BASIS NVB NVA BG
TYO
DFW AA J 01DEC J2XN3G 01DEC 02P
FARE JPY 744500 EQUIV USD 6529.00
TAX USD 18.30SW USD 4.60OI USD 34.46XT
TOTAL USD 6586.36
ADT-01 J2XN3G
TYO AA DFW Q32.13 6803.78NUC6835.91END ROE108.91
XT USD18.00US USD5.50YC USD7.00XY USD3.96XA
Not impossible, but so far not in accordance to my experience. The caveat is that I believe CX uses some sort of complicated manual pricing for award redemption.
Nov 7, 2017, 1:24 pm
#533
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
No, CX does not.
If there's a complete routing I'm happy to try different plating carriers to see which one has the least YR/YQ for you. But trying out all different codeshare combinations to figure out the least YQ/YQ might be a bit more complicated.
I don't think plating carrier can be specified on ITA?
Not impossible, but so far not in accordance to my experience. The caveat is that I believe CX uses some sort of complicated manual pricing for award redemption.
Code:
*I«
1 AA 176J 01DEC 5 NRTDFW SS1 1130 0755 /DCAA /E
WPACX‡MUSD«
PSGR TYPE ADT - 01
CXR RES DATE FARE BASIS NVB NVA BG
TYO
DFW AA J 01DEC J2XN3G 01DEC 02P
FARE JPY 744500 EQUIV USD 6529.00
TAX USD 18.30SW USD 4.60OI USD 34.46XT
TOTAL USD 6586.36
ADT-01 J2XN3G
TYO AA DFW Q32.13 6803.78NUC6835.91END ROE108.91
XT USD18.00US USD5.50YC USD7.00XY USD3.96XA
I don't think plating carrier can be specified on ITA?
Not impossible, but so far not in accordance to my experience. The caveat is that I believe CX uses some sort of complicated manual pricing for award redemption.
all have 14 segments left.
CX TST office cant get the computer to price by automatically, all these taxes and YQ were computed manually by hand.
(The CX agent are getting harsher on me, as I gave them various routings to try in order to minimize the YQ and it is getting to a point that some said that they wouldnt do it again unless I pay another change fee despite the ticket had not yet been reissused).
So i do want to find out as much as I can before I give them a routing.
For CX plated ticket, do YQ depending the routing on AA, AY, QR and IB?
how about QR plated ticket?
QR refused to ticket anything on QR operated flight with other codes.
Also, if i have GRU DOH xxx, how does married segment factor into YQ?
Maybe I can ask you more details in PM as they do get compliated since
on the same flight, the YQ is very different depending on code.
I had NRT LHR LCA, AMS LGW MRU, if they are all on BA, huge YQ
but little YQ when it is on JL BA, BA IB coded! very strange world.
Nov 7, 2017, 1:55 pm
#534
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TPE / HSZ
Programs: CX GO (=SPH), IHG Diamond Amb, Hertz 5*, Accor, Hilton, National
Posts: 6,437
Thanks. We have 6 QR plates RTW ticket, and 1 CX plated RTW ticket.
all have 14 segments left.
CX TST office cant get the computer to price by automatically, all these taxes and YQ were computed manually by hand.
(The CX agent are getting harsher on me, as I gave them various routings to try in order to minimize the YQ and it is getting to a point that some said that they wouldnt do it again unless I pay another change fee despite the ticket had not yet been reissused).
So i do want to find out as much as I can before I give them a routing.
For CX plated ticket, do YQ depending the routing on AA, AY, QR and IB?
how about QR plated ticket?
QR refused to ticket anything on QR operated flight with other codes.
Also, if i have GRU DOH xxx, how does married segment factor into YQ?
Maybe I can ask you more details in PM as they do get compliated since
on the same flight, the YQ is very different depending on code.
I had NRT LHR LCA, AMS LGW MRU, if they are all on BA, huge YQ
but little YQ when it is on JL BA, BA IB coded! very strange world.
all have 14 segments left.
CX TST office cant get the computer to price by automatically, all these taxes and YQ were computed manually by hand.
(The CX agent are getting harsher on me, as I gave them various routings to try in order to minimize the YQ and it is getting to a point that some said that they wouldnt do it again unless I pay another change fee despite the ticket had not yet been reissused).
So i do want to find out as much as I can before I give them a routing.
For CX plated ticket, do YQ depending the routing on AA, AY, QR and IB?
how about QR plated ticket?
QR refused to ticket anything on QR operated flight with other codes.
Also, if i have GRU DOH xxx, how does married segment factor into YQ?
Maybe I can ask you more details in PM as they do get compliated since
on the same flight, the YQ is very different depending on code.
I had NRT LHR LCA, AMS LGW MRU, if they are all on BA, huge YQ
but little YQ when it is on JL BA, BA IB coded! very strange world.
The thing is that ticketing airlines do not automatically charge YR / YQ for another marketing carrier. I believe ticketing airline has to be told by marketing carrier to charge certain YR / YQ. Sometimes, ticketing carrier was not told, so nothing is charged. Sometimes, ticketing carrier is told the same amount and charges the same amount. Other times, ticketing carrier is told to collect more or less. If a particular airline seldom has its flights ticketed by a given carrier, it probably would not bother to request that particular ticketing airline to charge YR / YQ on its behalf. That's why you often see YR / YQ not charged between carriers that do not often get put in the same itinerary.
I might not have answered all your questions, but I hope you get the idea. YR / YQ are collected on behalf of the marketing carrier (which then may or may not pass to the operating carrier), so the amount is dictated by the marketing carrier.
Nov 7, 2017, 4:16 pm
#535
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
If you are re-issuing, things are complicated and indeed automatic calculation is sometimes not possible. If the ticket is still being reissued by the original issuer, the ticketing carrier's way of charging YR / YQ should still apply. If another airline is taking over to re-issue, honestly I don't know what will happen. Best is to determine the ticketing carrier that charges the least YR / YQ before issuing the ticket. I know oneworld Explorer has the rule that a given flight can be changed to another carrier if routing does not change (e. g., HKG-LAX on AA can be changed to CX). In this case, I do not think the additional YR / YQ is collected, although I am not sure.
The thing is that ticketing airlines do not automatically charge YR / YQ for another marketing carrier. I believe ticketing airline has to be told by marketing carrier to charge certain YR / YQ. Sometimes, ticketing carrier was not told, so nothing is charged. Sometimes, ticketing carrier is told the same amount and charges the same amount. Other times, ticketing carrier is told to collect more or less. If a particular airline seldom has its flights ticketed by a given carrier, it probably would not bother to request that particular ticketing airline to charge YR / YQ on its behalf. That's why you often see YR / YQ not charged between carriers that do not often get put in the same itinerary.
I might not have answered all your questions, but I hope you get the idea. YR / YQ are collected on behalf of the marketing carrier (which then may or may not pass to the operating carrier), so the amount is dictated by the marketing carrier.
The thing is that ticketing airlines do not automatically charge YR / YQ for another marketing carrier. I believe ticketing airline has to be told by marketing carrier to charge certain YR / YQ. Sometimes, ticketing carrier was not told, so nothing is charged. Sometimes, ticketing carrier is told the same amount and charges the same amount. Other times, ticketing carrier is told to collect more or less. If a particular airline seldom has its flights ticketed by a given carrier, it probably would not bother to request that particular ticketing airline to charge YR / YQ on its behalf. That's why you often see YR / YQ not charged between carriers that do not often get put in the same itinerary.
I might not have answered all your questions, but I hope you get the idea. YR / YQ are collected on behalf of the marketing carrier (which then may or may not pass to the operating carrier), so the amount is dictated by the marketing carrier.
marketing carrier == airline with coded?
the operating carrier is not involved at all?
This discussion is not important for award ticket because award ticket has to booked on the prime operating carrier coded. i have sent you a PM because i dont want to bored people to death on this minor technical difference on stuff...
Nov 8, 2017, 10:58 am
#536
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: HKG
Programs: BA Silver, MU Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 482
My recent OW redemption is as follow
HKG-MAD[TRANSFER]
MAD-LIS[OPEN JAW]
OPO-MAD[TRANSFER]
MAD-HKG[STOPOVER]
HKG-YVR[STOPOVER]
YVR-HKG[STOPOVER]
HKG-BNE[STOPOVER]
BNE-SYD[OPEN JAW]
PER-HKG
34,962 mi of total flying distance requires 190,000 Asia Miles for business class
One of the tricky problems was that when I was on the phone talking to an agent their system did not allow me to book the flight MAD-HKG on CX with the connection time >2hrs while the flight was available when I search it separately. I double checked the MCT in MAD was 90min if I remember correctly. The agent said "Wait a moment" and then the problem solved.
Another problem I have encountered was that the flight OPO-MAD is operated by Air Nostrum, marketed by Iberia. The agent said it's a codeshare flight so she could not book that. I told her Air Nostrum is an affiliate airline of IB and it's also under the oneworld alliance. She said "wait a moment please" and then another problem solved.
HKG-MAD[TRANSFER]
MAD-LIS[OPEN JAW]
OPO-MAD[TRANSFER]
MAD-HKG[STOPOVER]
HKG-YVR[STOPOVER]
YVR-HKG[STOPOVER]
HKG-BNE[STOPOVER]
BNE-SYD[OPEN JAW]
PER-HKG
34,962 mi of total flying distance requires 190,000 Asia Miles for business class
One of the tricky problems was that when I was on the phone talking to an agent their system did not allow me to book the flight MAD-HKG on CX with the connection time >2hrs while the flight was available when I search it separately. I double checked the MCT in MAD was 90min if I remember correctly. The agent said "Wait a moment" and then the problem solved.
Another problem I have encountered was that the flight OPO-MAD is operated by Air Nostrum, marketed by Iberia. The agent said it's a codeshare flight so she could not book that. I told her Air Nostrum is an affiliate airline of IB and it's also under the oneworld alliance. She said "wait a moment please" and then another problem solved.
Nov 8, 2017, 12:42 pm
#537
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TPE / HSZ
Programs: CX GO (=SPH), IHG Diamond Amb, Hertz 5*, Accor, Hilton, National
Posts: 6,437
ticketing carrier == plating carrier,
marketing carrier == airline with coded?
the operating carrier is not involved at all?
This discussion is not important for award ticket because award ticket has to booked on the prime operating carrier coded. i have sent you a PM because i dont want to bored people to death on this minor technical difference on stuff...
marketing carrier == airline with coded?
the operating carrier is not involved at all?
This discussion is not important for award ticket because award ticket has to booked on the prime operating carrier coded. i have sent you a PM because i dont want to bored people to death on this minor technical difference on stuff...
I am very busy these two days and will respond to your PM as soon as I can.
Nov 8, 2017, 8:59 pm
#538
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: Hilton Diamond
Posts: 274
JFK-xSFO-xHKG-JNB-xCPT//CPT-xJNB//JNB-HKG-SFO
190K miles and 3,650 HKD in taxes and fees (I was originally quoted 3,444 HKD)
The BA flights added ~650 HKD of extra taxes/fuel surcharge for each segment
There seemed to be availability for each segment of the trip within a few days, just not my ideal dates on the weekends. I booked the ticket as a one world multi carrier award because the availability forced a stopover in HKG so I had to add BA flights.
It seems if you're flexible and book far in advance (11-12 months out) you can find something that works. Availability is much better US to Africa in business then when I searched United, AA, Delta which was pretty much non-existent.
Nov 9, 2017, 12:21 am
#539
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1
Hi guys,
I'm trying to plan to book my first Multi Carrier Award. I've read more than 20 pages of this thread, and i think my below itinerary should be valid (unless i read something wrongly).
SIN-oHKG-CDG//LHR-xCDG-xHKG-SIN//HKG-oSIN-oMEL-SIN
Carriers will be CX, QF, BA
although does anyone know if the QF award flights for LHR-SIN-SYD are available for booking yet?? Qantas is shifting its hub to Singapore starting march 2018.
i basically need a carrier other than CX to get from LHR or CDG to SIN and i'm trying very hard not to take BA Y. KVS, CX website, QF website not showing this route yet.
I know i can take QR, but i'm also trying to avoid stopping in middle east if possible. EU direct to asia will help overcome jet lag.
Can i also confirm that the flight dates must run in chronological order?
i.e. the above sequence must run from left to right in precisely that order above.
I'm trying to plan to book my first Multi Carrier Award. I've read more than 20 pages of this thread, and i think my below itinerary should be valid (unless i read something wrongly).
SIN-oHKG-CDG//LHR-xCDG-xHKG-SIN//HKG-oSIN-oMEL-SIN
Carriers will be CX, QF, BA
although does anyone know if the QF award flights for LHR-SIN-SYD are available for booking yet?? Qantas is shifting its hub to Singapore starting march 2018.
i basically need a carrier other than CX to get from LHR or CDG to SIN and i'm trying very hard not to take BA Y. KVS, CX website, QF website not showing this route yet.
I know i can take QR, but i'm also trying to avoid stopping in middle east if possible. EU direct to asia will help overcome jet lag.
Can i also confirm that the flight dates must run in chronological order?
i.e. the above sequence must run from left to right in precisely that order above.