Jun 19, 2017, 9:34 pm
Last edit by: ernestnywang
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards Wiki v0.1
Rules
1. You need two non CX/KA carriers
2. You are allowed 5 stopovers, 2 transits (<=24hrs) and 2 open jaws. You can use your stopover allowance as a transit, possibly by asking for it to be ticketed as such (extra taxes?). [Using stopover for transit is no longer possible since 2021/22?]
3. The open-jaw points do not count towards your stopover allowance. Neither does the final city on the itinerary
4. You must start and end in the same country.
5. To determine the miles required, add up all flight sectors on your itinerary and look up the award chart (ignore the distance between open-jaw points). gcmap.com is handy, though best to go via asiamiles' calculator.
6. Co-terminals (NRT/HND, LHR/LCY) do not count as an open-jaw (takes up 1 stopover/transit allowance).
If an itinerary clears the above, it is valid, though you may have to argue a lot back and forth. Keep your patience suit on and and keep referring to the terms & conditions ("What in the T&Cs makes this invalid" tends to work).
For the examples below, x=transit, o=stopover, and capitalized alphabets represent airports.
Some valid routings that have commonly been pushed back on
1. "You cannot go through the start, destination, or enroute point more than once". A-oB-oA-oC-oD-A is a valid itinerary.
2. "An open-jaw point is a stopover". A-oB-oC-D//E-oF-G//H-oI-oJ-A is valid, as is A-oB-xC-D//E-oF-G//H-xI-oJ-oK-oL-A.
Other tips
1. Tickets are valid for 1 year from the date of issuance. Potentially a pain when planning that dream RTW trip involving LATAM/AA which release seats 330 days out, that you're trying to tee-in with CX award seats released a year out.
2. A combination of BA/AA/LATAM/QF sites works well to research availability (look for saver availability)
3. You can go crazy on the routings- A-oB-A//C-oD-C//E-A is fine if A,B,E are in country/Region # 1, and, C,D are at the other end of the world.
Rules
1. You need two non CX/KA carriers
2. You are allowed 5 stopovers, 2 transits (<=24hrs) and 2 open jaws. You can use your stopover allowance as a transit, possibly by asking for it to be ticketed as such (extra taxes?). [Using stopover for transit is no longer possible since 2021/22?]
3. The open-jaw points do not count towards your stopover allowance. Neither does the final city on the itinerary
4. You must start and end in the same country.
5. To determine the miles required, add up all flight sectors on your itinerary and look up the award chart (ignore the distance between open-jaw points). gcmap.com is handy, though best to go via asiamiles' calculator.
6. Co-terminals (NRT/HND, LHR/LCY) do not count as an open-jaw (takes up 1 stopover/transit allowance).
If an itinerary clears the above, it is valid, though you may have to argue a lot back and forth. Keep your patience suit on and and keep referring to the terms & conditions ("What in the T&Cs makes this invalid" tends to work).
For the examples below, x=transit, o=stopover, and capitalized alphabets represent airports.
Some valid routings that have commonly been pushed back on
1. "You cannot go through the start, destination, or enroute point more than once". A-oB-oA-oC-oD-A is a valid itinerary.
2. "An open-jaw point is a stopover". A-oB-oC-D//E-oF-G//H-oI-oJ-A is valid, as is A-oB-xC-D//E-oF-G//H-xI-oJ-oK-oL-A.
Other tips
1. Tickets are valid for 1 year from the date of issuance. Potentially a pain when planning that dream RTW trip involving LATAM/AA which release seats 330 days out, that you're trying to tee-in with CX award seats released a year out.
2. A combination of BA/AA/LATAM/QF sites works well to research availability (look for saver availability)
3. You can go crazy on the routings- A-oB-A//C-oD-C//E-A is fine if A,B,E are in country/Region # 1, and, C,D are at the other end of the world.
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
Jan 20, 2016, 7:16 am
#151
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, MLife Gold, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Caesars Diamond, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,940
Hello
We are a couple with 2.5-yr old.
With regard to the AsiaMiles multi-carrier award in Category 12 (25001-35000 miles) and taking into account likely seat availabilities, we would aim for 1 First (275000 Asiamiles) and 2 Business (190,000 Asiamiles each) for total of 655000 Asiamiles.
Here is the proposed itinerary:
1. HKG-YYZ [OPEN JAW] CX826 (77W) 7793 miles (J only seats)
2. JFK-CDG [STOPOVER] AA 44 (777) 3623 miles
3. CDG-LHR [TRANSFER] BA 309 (319) 216 miles (J only seats)
4. LHR-PEK [STOPOVER] BA 39 (747) 5063 miles
5. PEK-HND [STOPOVER] JL 22 (788) 1299 miles
6. HND-SFO [OPEN JAW] JL 2 (77W) 5146 miles
7. MIA-LHR [TRANSFER] AA 5 (77W) 4415 miles
8. LHR-MUC [STOPOVER] BA 960 (319) 584 miles (J only seats)
9. MUC-LHR [STOPOVER] BA 940 (319) 584 miles (J only seats)
10 LHR-HKG [END] CX 250 (77W) 5981 miles
The total mileage (according to FlightMap software) is 34704 miles (!)
The ticket includes flights on 4 oneworld members (CX+AA+BA+JL)
The 10 flight segments include 2 OpenJaw, 2 Transfers, and 5 Stopovers with start and end in HKG.
LHR is touched twice for Transfers but only once for Stopover.
Would that itinerary be valid?
If so, are these particular flights good choices for seating experience and award availability?
Thanks so much for your guidance.
We are a couple with 2.5-yr old.
With regard to the AsiaMiles multi-carrier award in Category 12 (25001-35000 miles) and taking into account likely seat availabilities, we would aim for 1 First (275000 Asiamiles) and 2 Business (190,000 Asiamiles each) for total of 655000 Asiamiles.
Here is the proposed itinerary:
1. HKG-YYZ [OPEN JAW] CX826 (77W) 7793 miles (J only seats)
2. JFK-CDG [STOPOVER] AA 44 (777) 3623 miles
3. CDG-LHR [TRANSFER] BA 309 (319) 216 miles (J only seats)
4. LHR-PEK [STOPOVER] BA 39 (747) 5063 miles
5. PEK-HND [STOPOVER] JL 22 (788) 1299 miles
6. HND-SFO [OPEN JAW] JL 2 (77W) 5146 miles
7. MIA-LHR [TRANSFER] AA 5 (77W) 4415 miles
8. LHR-MUC [STOPOVER] BA 960 (319) 584 miles (J only seats)
9. MUC-LHR [STOPOVER] BA 940 (319) 584 miles (J only seats)
10 LHR-HKG [END] CX 250 (77W) 5981 miles
The total mileage (according to FlightMap software) is 34704 miles (!)
The ticket includes flights on 4 oneworld members (CX+AA+BA+JL)
The 10 flight segments include 2 OpenJaw, 2 Transfers, and 5 Stopovers with start and end in HKG.
LHR is touched twice for Transfers but only once for Stopover.
Would that itinerary be valid?
If so, are these particular flights good choices for seating experience and award availability?
Thanks so much for your guidance.
QUESTION: The multi award chart says that it is applicable when you "redeem a round trip award ticket". Would this itinerary qualify as RT or would the backtracking make it ineligible? I want to try this...
Last edited by Stgermainparis; Jan 20, 2016 at 10:29 am
Jan 20, 2016, 10:04 pm
#152
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 194
Regular Cash Fare Quote Not Possible
Just to follow up on the 10-segment itinerary listed earlier --
I called the CX Reservations Line in Hong Kong (2747-3333) to enquire about the pricing for that whole ticket in adult F, adult J, and child J.
The lady took the details for all 10 segments with specific flight numbers and dates, and called me back a few minutes later to inform me that this complete routing is not able to be quoted.
She said they could only quote a single ticket for the first 5 segments to HND and then HND-HKG, with the rest of the sequence as a separate ticket.
Not sure precisely why CX cannot price the whole 10 segments in a single ticket.
Is there some fundamental problem with this sequence -- eg. no cash ticket can ever involve two TPAC in the same direction ?? Or is there a hard-limit on the number of segments??
Since there is a fairly equal distribution of CX/AA/BA/JL across the whole 10 segments, would this ticket be more quotable via travel agent than a particular airline?
Any suggestions for a real-world travel agent in Hong Kong or international travel agent online that can quote the whole ticket?
Thanks !
I called the CX Reservations Line in Hong Kong (2747-3333) to enquire about the pricing for that whole ticket in adult F, adult J, and child J.
The lady took the details for all 10 segments with specific flight numbers and dates, and called me back a few minutes later to inform me that this complete routing is not able to be quoted.
She said they could only quote a single ticket for the first 5 segments to HND and then HND-HKG, with the rest of the sequence as a separate ticket.
Not sure precisely why CX cannot price the whole 10 segments in a single ticket.
Is there some fundamental problem with this sequence -- eg. no cash ticket can ever involve two TPAC in the same direction ?? Or is there a hard-limit on the number of segments??
Since there is a fairly equal distribution of CX/AA/BA/JL across the whole 10 segments, would this ticket be more quotable via travel agent than a particular airline?
Any suggestions for a real-world travel agent in Hong Kong or international travel agent online that can quote the whole ticket?
Thanks !
Jan 21, 2016, 12:45 am
#154
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 194
The travel plan for 2016 spanning 10 months from March to December is actually more comprehensive than the 10 segments listed for that cat.12 (35000) asiamiles award --
During the first open jaw from YYZ to JFK we would do a side visit around North America for 2 months (APR-MAY), and during the first stopover in CDG we would do a side visit around Europe for 3 months (JUN-JUL-AUG).
But of course the whole thing is predicated on CX approval of the main award routing and award seat availabilities. I think I will quickly submit the proposed itinerary to Marco Polo Club to confirm the whole thing is feasible.
Jan 21, 2016, 12:49 am
#155
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 194
I got another call back from CX about the cash fare pricing.
It turns out that the reason they were unable to quote the full 10-segment routing is because they were assuming a RTW fare type rather than a regular multi-leg ticket, and RTW oneworld tickets do have a restriction of only 1 TPAC segment.
The lady has passed on the full sequence to the regular department for pricing as a normal ticket and they will contact me when they have the quotes.
It turns out that the reason they were unable to quote the full 10-segment routing is because they were assuming a RTW fare type rather than a regular multi-leg ticket, and RTW oneworld tickets do have a restriction of only 1 TPAC segment.
The lady has passed on the full sequence to the regular department for pricing as a normal ticket and they will contact me when they have the quotes.
Jan 21, 2016, 1:14 am
#156
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 194
My main goal is to use Asiamiles for the cat.12 (35000) award with the 10-segment sequence just under the total distance limit ... and the queries to CX on the cash pricing for the same 10-segment routing is to have a hard figure on the applied value for each of the 3 tickets (adult F, adult J, and child J).
For example, the quote I did receive for the first 5 segments only (plus leg from HND to HKG) was USD 15500 in adult F, USD 10500 in adult J, and USD 8000 in child J.
This shorter sequence measuring 19800 miles corresponds with the multi-carrier award in cat.10 (18001-20000 miles) at 205000 asiamiles in First and 140000 asiamiles in Business.
So the applied value is 7.6 cents / asiamile for adult F, almost the same 7.5 cents for adult J, and a lesser 5.7 cents for child J.
I await the cash quote for the whole 10-segments (34700 miles) for comparison.
Jan 21, 2016, 2:42 am
#158
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 194
Hi percysmith
Your nested idea is very clever !
I did get another call back from CX with the quote for the whole 10 segments as a normal multi-leg ticket (not RTW) and the pricing was rather high -- USD 39000 in F, USD 30000 in J, and USD 26000 child J.
The child price especially odd as it is more like 85% than 75%. But even the adult fares render the second set of 5 segments about double what should be the incremental price.
Indeed, as both 'halves' in the cash-fare approach are almost equal distance, my guess is that a separate RTW ticket starting from HKG for segments 6-10 would also probably cost about the same as the first half previously quoted.
But tomorrow I will call to check about your suggested structure involving the two RTW-style sequences nested around LHR rather than sequential.
In any case, my guess is that the combined cash prices from dividing the total set of 10 segments into two cash RTW tickets (sequential or nested) would amount to about USD 30000 in F, USD 20000 in J, and perhaps USD 15000 for child J.
I have to still check with the award department (which is the key objective), but this cash pricing would translate to values of about 10 cents / asiamile for the whole sequence based on a total of USD 65000 for 3 pax (1 adult F, 1 adult J, and 1 child J) versus 655000 asiamiles for 1 F and 2 J.
If accurate, this would also confirm that the cat.12 award is much better value than a cat.10 award -- ie. 10 cents versus 7.5 cents.
Your nested idea is very clever !
I did get another call back from CX with the quote for the whole 10 segments as a normal multi-leg ticket (not RTW) and the pricing was rather high -- USD 39000 in F, USD 30000 in J, and USD 26000 child J.
The child price especially odd as it is more like 85% than 75%. But even the adult fares render the second set of 5 segments about double what should be the incremental price.
Indeed, as both 'halves' in the cash-fare approach are almost equal distance, my guess is that a separate RTW ticket starting from HKG for segments 6-10 would also probably cost about the same as the first half previously quoted.
But tomorrow I will call to check about your suggested structure involving the two RTW-style sequences nested around LHR rather than sequential.
In any case, my guess is that the combined cash prices from dividing the total set of 10 segments into two cash RTW tickets (sequential or nested) would amount to about USD 30000 in F, USD 20000 in J, and perhaps USD 15000 for child J.
I have to still check with the award department (which is the key objective), but this cash pricing would translate to values of about 10 cents / asiamile for the whole sequence based on a total of USD 65000 for 3 pax (1 adult F, 1 adult J, and 1 child J) versus 655000 asiamiles for 1 F and 2 J.
If accurate, this would also confirm that the cat.12 award is much better value than a cat.10 award -- ie. 10 cents versus 7.5 cents.
Jan 21, 2016, 2:52 am
#159
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
I think I tried something like that when routing my sister in law for my wedding. My sister in law wanted SYD-(JL)xNRT-oCTS (where I was tying the knot)-oHKG (where the clan banquet was)-SYD
I knew the routing was suicidal cos it's not a return. But I still had Amex Platinum Travel Service back then so on my SIL's insistence I asked them to quote (or get Farrington to do it). A$6,000 in Y, they did it as all one-ways...
I knew the routing was suicidal cos it's not a return. But I still had Amex Platinum Travel Service back then so on my SIL's insistence I asked them to quote (or get Farrington to do it). A$6,000 in Y, they did it as all one-ways...
Jan 27, 2016, 10:53 pm
#160
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 11
Hello all
I come up with the itinerary below and want to know if it's indeed a valid one.
HKG-(CX)oJFK//LGA-(AA)oORD-(JL)oNRT-(JL)oSYD//MEL-(CX)HKG
Total distance: 24796 miles
Miles required: 160000
In terms of availability, with 330 days out, I usually see 1 or 2 J seats on both the ORD-NRT and NRT-SYD legs. HKG-JFK looks okay. Can I still be put on waitlist for a CX flight for an OW multi-carrier award?
I am not certain when I will go to OZ but want to secure my NRT-ORD seat when it's made available. Since an award's validity is only one year, can I cancel my award, pay 10000 miles and have MP issue the ticket again with my reserved seats so I can have more time for planning my OZ trip?
I come up with the itinerary below and want to know if it's indeed a valid one.
HKG-(CX)oJFK//LGA-(AA)oORD-(JL)oNRT-(JL)oSYD//MEL-(CX)HKG
Total distance: 24796 miles
Miles required: 160000
In terms of availability, with 330 days out, I usually see 1 or 2 J seats on both the ORD-NRT and NRT-SYD legs. HKG-JFK looks okay. Can I still be put on waitlist for a CX flight for an OW multi-carrier award?
I am not certain when I will go to OZ but want to secure my NRT-ORD seat when it's made available. Since an award's validity is only one year, can I cancel my award, pay 10000 miles and have MP issue the ticket again with my reserved seats so I can have more time for planning my OZ trip?
Last edited by ashko; Jan 27, 2016 at 11:08 pm Reason: typo
Jan 27, 2016, 11:44 pm
#161
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
This itinerary even looks feasible in my view (I've done something similar http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...-24-hours.html )
I am not certain when I will go to OZ but want to secure my NRT-ORD seat when it's made available. Since an award's validity is only one year, can I cancel my award, pay 10000 miles and have MP issue the ticket again with my reserved seats so I can have more time for planning my OZ trip?
Rebooking (1,000 AM/US$25):
- Change dates/times for one segment. Keep carrier and routing the same.
Reissue:
- routing change
- class change
Cancellation (and reissue):
- airline change
- add/delete segments
During a cancellation and reissue the segments you still want to keep are held and issued into a new ticket with new ticket number.
But AM will be given a time limit by partners to do this - this has resulted in a segment being dropped despite the general rule above http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...practices.html . Fortunately I've done cancellation and reissue (for free) for the transit to stopover booking above with AA and JL and segments weren't dropped.
Jan 28, 2016, 12:09 am
#162
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 11
my flights to/from OZ, coz I don't have exact dates yet
Why is it free? Mind if you can share more details? Coz I don't want my JL segments to be dropped. ORD-NRT J is extrmely difficult to find. Thanks percysmith
Why is it free? Mind if you can share more details? Coz I don't want my JL segments to be dropped. ORD-NRT J is extrmely difficult to find. Thanks percysmith
Last edited by ashko; Jan 28, 2016 at 12:10 am Reason: typo
Jan 28, 2016, 12:14 am
#163
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
You need a complete routing even if MEL-HKG isn't on the date you want in order to hold all the AA and JL flights.
Jan 28, 2016, 12:55 am
#164
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 11
Jan 13 2017 HKG-JFK
Jan 20 2017 ORD-NRT
In order to secure my JL segments, I will need to have my award issued next month (330 days out); however I will definitely not go to OZ in Feb 2017 and my award will expire by end of Feb 2017. So I am thinking if I can reissue/cancel (however it works) my ticket towards the end of 2016 so my "new" award will allow me to complete the OZ trip probably in mid 2017. Any thoughts?
Jan 28, 2016, 2:05 am
#165
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
This can work. You do a cancellation and reissue, retaining your JL segments. The validity of the new ticket will be one year from the new ticket date.