How exactly does CX Waitlist work for awards?
Oct 21, 2015, 5:24 am
#31
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
So...I have a confirmed one-way booking in U class booked by Avios on X date, but I would really want to travel on the X-1th in fact. No availability showing for X-1th, but AM waitlist open. I just tried to use my (balance-less) AM account to waitlist for the X-1th and it worked (I got a ref...that means I'm waitlisted right?)
So assuming that there are some AM waitlist quotas to fill for U class before opening up back to partners when it comes to almost to departure time (for X-1th), should I just use the AM accounts of all my family members to waitlist for the remaining U class spots, so when it comes to issuance deadline it'll just cancel out (we all have AM accounts with 0 miles) and me with my legit Avios U class booking get a greater chance to book in at that time?
The ticketing deadline is X-9th, if it matters...
So assuming that there are some AM waitlist quotas to fill for U class before opening up back to partners when it comes to almost to departure time (for X-1th), should I just use the AM accounts of all my family members to waitlist for the remaining U class spots, so when it comes to issuance deadline it'll just cancel out (we all have AM accounts with 0 miles) and me with my legit Avios U class booking get a greater chance to book in at that time?
The ticketing deadline is X-9th, if it matters...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post25593767
http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/2015/...advantage.html
Oct 25, 2015, 10:33 pm
#32
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 409
Hello everyone! Been lurking here and have found super helpful advice over the years, but this is my first post. Have two questions for you seasoned folks:
1) I am flying JFK->HKG->Melbourne in about a month. I purchased R-class PE return ticket, and have been waitlisted for J-class business upgrade since July 21. Is there anything I should be doing, other than waiting for confirmation? I hope you guys don't tell me that I should have been calling Cathay every day, I would kick myself! But whatever the case may be, just give it to me straight so I will know for next time!
My flights, in case it helps to know:
25 Nov 2015, Wed CX841 JFK HKG 09:00 14:05(+1) 77W
26 Nov 2015, Thu CX135 HKG MEL 19:10 07:30(+1) 333
07 Dec 2015, Mon CX178 MEL HKG 00:50 07:00 333
07 Dec 2015, Mon CX830 HKG JFK 09:35 12:10 77W
2) Will they do partial upgrades, like if only certain legs are available or is it all or nothing?
Thanks in advance!
1) I am flying JFK->HKG->Melbourne in about a month. I purchased R-class PE return ticket, and have been waitlisted for J-class business upgrade since July 21. Is there anything I should be doing, other than waiting for confirmation? I hope you guys don't tell me that I should have been calling Cathay every day, I would kick myself! But whatever the case may be, just give it to me straight so I will know for next time!
My flights, in case it helps to know:
25 Nov 2015, Wed CX841 JFK HKG 09:00 14:05(+1) 77W
26 Nov 2015, Thu CX135 HKG MEL 19:10 07:30(+1) 333
07 Dec 2015, Mon CX178 MEL HKG 00:50 07:00 333
07 Dec 2015, Mon CX830 HKG JFK 09:35 12:10 77W
2) Will they do partial upgrades, like if only certain legs are available or is it all or nothing?
Thanks in advance!
Oct 26, 2015, 12:39 am
#33
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
Hello everyone! Been lurking here and have found super helpful advice over the years, but this is my first post. Have two questions for you seasoned folks:
1) I am flying JFK->HKG->Melbourne in about a month. I purchased R-class PE return ticket, and have been waitlisted for J-class business upgrade since July 21. Is there anything I should be doing, other than waiting for confirmation? I hope you guys don't tell me that I should have been calling Cathay every day, I would kick myself! But whatever the case may be, just give it to me straight so I will know for next time!
2) Will they do partial upgrades, like if only certain legs are available or is it all or nothing?
Thanks in advance!
1) I am flying JFK->HKG->Melbourne in about a month. I purchased R-class PE return ticket, and have been waitlisted for J-class business upgrade since July 21. Is there anything I should be doing, other than waiting for confirmation? I hope you guys don't tell me that I should have been calling Cathay every day, I would kick myself! But whatever the case may be, just give it to me straight so I will know for next time!
2) Will they do partial upgrades, like if only certain legs are available or is it all or nothing?
Thanks in advance!
#1: Alas, I think you should be calling MPC regularly. The CX waitlist is not reliable, and there are a lot of partners who will gobble up availability pretty quickly if it bypasses the waiting list. It will basically be a "SOL" situation if an award bypasses the waitlist by mistake and goes straight to inventory...where it's likely a partner will see it and grab it.
I'm not sure exactly on the timing (aka, when does CX release seats to the MPC waiting list, and whether or not this is simultaneously when the computer decides whether to release to partner award inventory), but I do know a.) from experience the MPC waiting list doesn't always work correctly, I've had it fail on me on numerous occasions (aka, seats opened up but I wasn't cleared, then they went to the inventory pool, someone else got them, and too bad for me) and b.) there is a lot of partner demand for CX premium cabin seats.
#2: Yes, CX will process partial upgrades for you. And there is at least some good news here...if you clear one way now, and the other way 2 days before departure, CX will refund you the mileage difference so you only pay a round-trip mileage equivalent.
As a final word, if you do discover a situation whereby you got screwed - aka you were patiently on the waitlist, but the waitlist failed and your seat went to someone else - I would call CX and complain. If the cabin is relatively open for sale they **might** release a seat for you. CX has a strong incentive to protect MPC upgrade awards; they are, after all, perhaps the only differentiating incentive to bank miles to AM/MPC, since partners cannot upgrade tickets with partner currency...only AM can be used for upgrades. CX has built in a nice niche by compelling passengers like yourselves to buy up to Y/B/H/K in Y, or W/R in PEY, with hope to use mileage for an upgrade to the higher class. Done right, this system is built to help CX maximize yield and gives CX some cabin flexibility. I think your argument would fall on receptive ears if you complained that the damn waitlist failed you, you specifically paid for R class for the option to upgrade, and what the hell is the point of buying R class in the future if CX can't even follow the system they've put in place themselves.
Last edited by QRC3288; Oct 26, 2015 at 12:45 am
Oct 26, 2015, 6:23 am
#34
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 409
Hello.
#1: Alas, I think you should be calling MPC regularly. The CX waitlist is not reliable, and there are a lot of partners who will gobble up availability pretty quickly if it bypasses the waiting list. It will basically be a "SOL" situation if an award bypasses the waitlist by mistake and goes straight to inventory...where it's likely a partner will see it and grab it.
I'm not sure exactly on the timing (aka, when does CX release seats to the MPC waiting list, and whether or not this is simultaneously when the computer decides whether to release to partner award inventory), but I do know a.) from experience the MPC waiting list doesn't always work correctly, I've had it fail on me on numerous occasions (aka, seats opened up but I wasn't cleared, then they went to the inventory pool, someone else got them, and too bad for me) and b.) there is a lot of partner demand for CX premium cabin seats.
#2: Yes, CX will process partial upgrades for you. And there is at least some good news here...if you clear one way now, and the other way 2 days before departure, CX will refund you the mileage difference so you only pay a round-trip mileage equivalent.
As a final word, if you do discover a situation whereby you got screwed - aka you were patiently on the waitlist, but the waitlist failed and your seat went to someone else - I would call CX and complain. If the cabin is relatively open for sale they **might** release a seat for you. CX has a strong incentive to protect MPC upgrade awards; they are, after all, perhaps the only differentiating incentive to bank miles to AM/MPC, since partners cannot upgrade tickets with partner currency...only AM can be used for upgrades. CX has built in a nice niche by compelling passengers like yourselves to buy up to Y/B/H/K in Y, or W/R in PEY, with hope to use mileage for an upgrade to the higher class. Done right, this system is built to help CX maximize yield and gives CX some cabin flexibility. I think your argument would fall on receptive ears if you complained that the damn waitlist failed you, you specifically paid for R class for the option to upgrade, and what the hell is the point of buying R class in the future if CX can't even follow the system they've put in place themselves.
#1: Alas, I think you should be calling MPC regularly. The CX waitlist is not reliable, and there are a lot of partners who will gobble up availability pretty quickly if it bypasses the waiting list. It will basically be a "SOL" situation if an award bypasses the waitlist by mistake and goes straight to inventory...where it's likely a partner will see it and grab it.
I'm not sure exactly on the timing (aka, when does CX release seats to the MPC waiting list, and whether or not this is simultaneously when the computer decides whether to release to partner award inventory), but I do know a.) from experience the MPC waiting list doesn't always work correctly, I've had it fail on me on numerous occasions (aka, seats opened up but I wasn't cleared, then they went to the inventory pool, someone else got them, and too bad for me) and b.) there is a lot of partner demand for CX premium cabin seats.
#2: Yes, CX will process partial upgrades for you. And there is at least some good news here...if you clear one way now, and the other way 2 days before departure, CX will refund you the mileage difference so you only pay a round-trip mileage equivalent.
As a final word, if you do discover a situation whereby you got screwed - aka you were patiently on the waitlist, but the waitlist failed and your seat went to someone else - I would call CX and complain. If the cabin is relatively open for sale they **might** release a seat for you. CX has a strong incentive to protect MPC upgrade awards; they are, after all, perhaps the only differentiating incentive to bank miles to AM/MPC, since partners cannot upgrade tickets with partner currency...only AM can be used for upgrades. CX has built in a nice niche by compelling passengers like yourselves to buy up to Y/B/H/K in Y, or W/R in PEY, with hope to use mileage for an upgrade to the higher class. Done right, this system is built to help CX maximize yield and gives CX some cabin flexibility. I think your argument would fall on receptive ears if you complained that the damn waitlist failed you, you specifically paid for R class for the option to upgrade, and what the hell is the point of buying R class in the future if CX can't even follow the system they've put in place themselves.
Oct 26, 2015, 6:28 am
#35
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
The official party line is upgrade redemptions process in the same bucket as straight redemptions, so assuming that line of thinking is true, OCD-driven checking of straight availability for each segment will also do the trick.
I don't see your 2747 3838 am-line manila-based agent doing this for you. General-line agents are mostly WYSIWYG - you might need a DM/GO line to open availability even for an upgrade.
As a final word, if you do discover a situation whereby you got screwed - aka you were patiently on the waitlist, but the waitlist failed and your seat went to someone else - I would call CX and complain. If the cabin is relatively open for sale they **might** release a seat for you. CX has a strong incentive to protect MPC upgrade awards; they are, after all, perhaps the only differentiating incentive to bank miles to AM/MPC, since partners cannot upgrade tickets with partner currency...only AM can be used for upgrades. CX has built in a nice niche by compelling passengers like yourselves to buy up to Y/B/H/K in Y, or W/R in PEY, with hope to use mileage for an upgrade to the higher class. Done right, this system is built to help CX maximize yield and gives CX some cabin flexibility. I think your argument would fall on receptive ears if you complained that the damn waitlist failed you, you specifically paid for R class for the option to upgrade, and what the hell is the point of buying R class in the future if CX can't even follow the system they've put in place themselves.
Oct 26, 2015, 8:50 am
#36
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
Anyway, if you can get through to AM....I'd make a habit of calling regularly. And if you do happen to see award inventory appear on KVS, or BA or whatever you might use, call immediately and complain because you got bypassed.
Oct 26, 2015, 9:34 am
#37
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
Qrc3288 haha I wonder will your AM-level Manila agent understand your what you're going on about...
Oct 26, 2015, 10:25 am
#38
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 409
The official party line is upgrade redemptions process in the same bucket as straight redemptions, so assuming that line of thinking is true, OCD-driven checking of straight availability for each segment will also do the trick.
I don't see your 2747 3838 am-line manila-based agent doing this for you. General-line agents are mostly WYSIWYG - you might need a DM/GO line to open availability even for an upgrade.
I don't see your 2747 3838 am-line manila-based agent doing this for you. General-line agents are mostly WYSIWYG - you might need a DM/GO line to open availability even for an upgrade.
Oct 26, 2015, 10:47 am
#39
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
You can use the KVS tool (paid service) to check Cathay's own award inventory, and the British Airways Executive Club website to search partner availability (aka, what CX has opened up to their OW and other redemption partners). If you see inventory available on the latter but you haven't cleared you should call MPC/AM immediately because that means the waitlist didn't work.
Oct 26, 2015, 10:52 am
#40
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 409
You can use the KVS tool (paid service) to check Cathay's own award inventory, and the British Airways Executive Club website to search partner availability (aka, what CX has opened up to their OW and other redemption partners). If you see inventory available on the latter but you haven't cleared you should call MPC/AM immediately because that means the waitlist didn't work.
Will try and figure out inventory through other means and commence OCD-level calling
Oct 26, 2015, 11:29 am
#41
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
I've tried KVS - it offers one-click checking of CX and BA's inventories as QRC3288 explained above.
It doesn't show any more than what you can search by yourself on cathaypacific.com or britishairways.com
However a significant downer (at least for me) is KVS did not go through my corporate gateway. It did work when I started my subscription - clandestinely in my case as KVS is a program and we weren't really meant to be installing them (I ran mine off a USB) - and then someone in my IT changed something and I wasn't able to use KVS on my work computer anymore. My home KVS still worked fine so it's not their fault. Owing to its status as a program I cannot raise a Helpdesk ticket without triggering an audit either.
It doesn't show any more than what you can search by yourself on cathaypacific.com or britishairways.com
However a significant downer (at least for me) is KVS did not go through my corporate gateway. It did work when I started my subscription - clandestinely in my case as KVS is a program and we weren't really meant to be installing them (I ran mine off a USB) - and then someone in my IT changed something and I wasn't able to use KVS on my work computer anymore. My home KVS still worked fine so it's not their fault. Owing to its status as a program I cannot raise a Helpdesk ticket without triggering an audit either.
Oct 26, 2015, 11:32 am
#42
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 409
I tried checking BA's redemption availability, and it's only showing one of the 4 flights I need available.
Anyone want to venture to guess how my upgrade chances are looking like? I'm flying Nov 25, day before Thanksgiving out of JFK so maybe that's hurting my chances a little. If the upgrade is not looking good, I may give up on this entirely and just go for cheapest economy fare!
FYI I'm flying JFK>>HKG>>MEL
Anyone want to venture to guess how my upgrade chances are looking like? I'm flying Nov 25, day before Thanksgiving out of JFK so maybe that's hurting my chances a little. If the upgrade is not looking good, I may give up on this entirely and just go for cheapest economy fare!
FYI I'm flying JFK>>HKG>>MEL
Oct 26, 2015, 12:09 pm
#43
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
841 and 178 are baxstatds to upgrade. Waiting for some 178 J seats myself (not your dates).
They may become available...48 to 24 hours before departure. At that time you won't have any waitlist as they end 96 hours before departure, so you're up against all the grAAber last minute artists on a first come first served basis.
They may become available...48 to 24 hours before departure. At that time you won't have any waitlist as they end 96 hours before departure, so you're up against all the grAAber last minute artists on a first come first served basis.
Oct 26, 2015, 12:23 pm
#44
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 409
841 and 178 are baxstatds to upgrade. Waiting for some 178 J seats myself (not your dates).
They may become available...48 to 24 hours before departure. At that time you won't have any waitlist as they end 96 hours before departure, so you're up against all the grAAber last minute artists on a first come first served basis.
They may become available...48 to 24 hours before departure. At that time you won't have any waitlist as they end 96 hours before departure, so you're up against all the grAAber last minute artists on a first come first served basis.
Oct 26, 2015, 12:56 pm
#45
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,800
No you just need to be more OCD - you need to whack the mole (call AM to process the upgrade) faster than other members and grAAbers when the seats are available (partner access will be equal to AM members close-in, but they burn a lot fewer miles on redemptions).
Oh P.S. forgot to mention 7 Dec is just after the start of the Australian school holidays so you're up against the collective onslaught of HK PRC and Taiwan Tiger Mums tearing each other to pieces for a flight home. Redemptions on them started *last* December and brings down the various redemption centres when it happens (I should know. I joined in the fray to make sure my SIL has no excuse to keep the kids in Australia for another summer).
Oh P.S. forgot to mention 7 Dec is just after the start of the Australian school holidays so you're up against the collective onslaught of HK PRC and Taiwan Tiger Mums tearing each other to pieces for a flight home. Redemptions on them started *last* December and brings down the various redemption centres when it happens (I should know. I joined in the fray to make sure my SIL has no excuse to keep the kids in Australia for another summer).
Last edited by percysmith; Oct 26, 2015 at 1:18 pm