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-   -   Is downgrade compensation offered when downgraded from First class to Business class? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-marco-polo-club/1231441-downgrade-compensation-offered-when-downgraded-first-class-business-class.html)

soccerpapi Jun 29, 11 8:16 am

Is downgrade compensation offered when downgraded from First class to Business class?
 
I am flying HKG to SIN on CX 739 which operates with a 74A aircraft. I am returning on the direct flight SIN - BKK - HKG CX 712 which also operates with a 74A aircraft.

I am traveling in First class using AA AAdvantage miles. Does anyone have experiences with aircraft changes on these flights? If so, is there compensation offered when a forced downgrade from First class to Business class occurs?

Any observations about the a/c downgrade scenerios when confirmed in First would be appreciated. I hope no aircraft changes occur on this itinerary, unless it aircraft change to a 77D or 77A and I could be confirmed in First. In that case, the aircraft change would be fine! Thank you.

soccer

mkjr Jun 29, 11 9:52 am


Originally Posted by soccerpapi (Post 16644447)
I am flying HKG to SIN on CX 739 which operates with a 74A aircraft. I am returning on the direct flight SIN - BKK - HKG CX 712 which also operates with a 74A aircraft.

I am traveling in First class using AA AAdvantage miles. Does anyone have experiences with aircraft changes on these flights? If so, is there compensation offered when a forced downgrade from First class to Business class occurs?

Any observations about the a/c downgrade scenerios when confirmed in First would be appreciated. I hope no aircraft changes occur on this itinerary, unless it aircraft change to a 77D or 77A and I could be confirmed in First. In that case, the aircraft change would be fine! Thank you.

soccer

not as i recall since there is lots of subs with CX. you should expect an AC change. i think there is a thread about this.

tylorcl Jun 29, 11 11:50 am


Originally Posted by soccerpapi (Post 16644447)
I am flying HKG to SIN on CX 739 which operates with a 74A aircraft. I am returning on the direct flight SIN - BKK - HKG CX 712 which also operates with a 74A aircraft.

I am traveling in First class using AA AAdvantage miles. Does anyone have experiences with aircraft changes on these flights? If so, is there compensation offered when a forced downgrade from First class to Business class occurs?

Any observations about the a/c downgrade scenerios when confirmed in First would be appreciated. I hope no aircraft changes occur on this itinerary, unless it aircraft change to a 77D or 77A and I could be confirmed in First. In that case, the aircraft change would be fine! Thank you.

soccer

I used LAN KM for PEK--HKG first class and was downgraded to business class due to the aircraft change. I asked for the compensation at PEK and after several rounds bargaining, the CX agent in PEK agreed to give me the fare difference in cash. I do not know how they calculate the difference, for one-way downgrade, I was given CNY1230.

sspicer Jul 1, 11 8:51 pm

I was downgraded on a HKG - ICN leg of my First class journey from JFK-HKG-ICN (stopping over several days in HKG). It was a one way award flight for which I had used BA Executive Club points to redeem for the First ticket; when I checked in I knew they'd changed out the aircraft but went to the First Class check-in at HKG anyway, and after some confusion and no argument on my part they gave me a cash reimbursement of HK$1,500 (a little less than US$200).

soccerpapi Jul 2, 11 1:21 pm

Thank you
 
Thanks to the OP's for your help and relating your experiences. I am hoping that the aircraft with First Class stay in place, but if they do not, it is good to know that the issue is settled at the departure airport.

Thanks again for your help.

soccer

avm2806 Jul 2, 11 2:47 pm

It's happened to me on CX from SIN. I had to hunker down and refuse to budge - it was part of a revenue AONE3 and they kept saying to go back to my travel agent. I said no, that as part of a oneworld ticket, I would not be entitled to any refund for a partial downgrade and that I had reworked my schedule to fly on a flight that had First class as I had paid. Finally, after getting no where, I mentioned how star alliance and SQ had first class on all SIN-HKG flights, and things changed. A manager showed up, apologized saying that I would be entitled to cash compensation (which was paltry) or an upgrade on a future flight via voucher that would be mailed to me. I accepted the upgrade and used it on a HKG-CGK later that year.

RupertC Jul 2, 11 6:16 pm

Compensation fo downgrade F-J
 
I had this situation on a HKG-SIN sector in February 2011 as part of an AA F award ticket. CX changed the equipment from 74A to regional 777 several months ahead of my travel date. I did not contest the downgrade with CX on the day as cash compensation appears to be offered only if downgraded at short notice.

I contacted AA after travel and subsequently received 4000 miles.

thesilb Jul 2, 11 6:42 pm

Dragonair has a nasty habit of very regularly downgrading the A330s they use HKG-PVG and HKG-PEK (particularly, the PVG flights) - I have had like a 50% downgrade rate on paid first in the past 12 months. They always try to stuff cash in my hand, its about $100-150 or so USD.

QRC3288 Jul 5, 11 2:09 am


Originally Posted by RupertC (Post 16662870)
I had this situation on a HKG-SIN sector in February 2011 as part of an AA F award ticket. CX changed the equipment from 74A to regional 777 several months ahead of my travel date. I did not contest the downgrade with CX on the day as cash compensation appears to be offered only if downgraded at short notice.

I contacted AA after travel and subsequently received 4000 miles.

I suspect this may be a big reason why CX is so flippant with aircraft subs on the SIN route. I used to think that only holiday destinations like DPS were heavy AA F redemption routes (since admittedly most locals, even the well heeded ones, seem okay with J for 3-4 hour flights), but I'm starting to think (based on a lot of the anecdotal evidence we hear on here) that a lot of the F demand to SIN is also with AA members flying awards tix.

For the AA members, it makes sense for them to redeem the miles since the additional miles they use on that sector is probably low (clarification?), but from CX's point of view the value they get from AA for that sector has to be pretty low also. I do get a chuckle from AA members who get indignant when the HKG-SIN sector gets downgraded (I'd love to see the actual cash value of that downgrade....I bet it's peanuts, same with the AONE), considering how few I'm assuming additional miles are needed for the SIN sector, but it's still not an excuse for CX to care less about F on that route. If they're selling F, it just doesn't make sense to me why they shouldn't have the capability of offering it except in the most extreme cases - especially since SQ offers such a compelling product on the exact same route.

Someone who was truly insistent on getting the best product on the route (and paying cash, not AA miles) would likely pay for SQ's suites on the A380 daily service HKG-SIN anyway.

flyerfly Jul 5, 11 8:04 am

The nice bloke that sat next to me on CX739 (that was 2 weeks ago) which was changed from a 744 to a regional 773 received HK$1,500 as compensation for the downgrade from F to J. He seems rather happy about it. He slept through the entire flight without bothering anyone so guess he did not really care about whether he is in J or F.

RupertC Jul 5, 11 6:04 pm

Using AA miles for CX F redemption on short sectors.
 

Originally Posted by QRC3288 (Post 16672557)
For the AA members, it makes sense for them to redeem the miles since the additional miles they use on that sector is probably low (clarification?), but from CX's point of view the value they get from AA for that sector has to be pretty low also. I do get a chuckle from AA members who get indignant when the HKG-SIN sector gets downgraded (I'd love to see the actual cash value of that downgrade....I bet it's peanuts, same with the AONE), considering how few I'm assuming additional miles are needed for the SIN sector, but it's still not an excuse for CX to care less about F on that route.

I can't see many AA members booking short F sectors such as SIN-HKG in isolation. It is a very inefficient use of miles (an Asia 2 award is 32,500 one way F; 22,500 one way J). If I booked a solo Asia2 sector and it got downgraded, I would be indignant. You can get HKG-SIN included as part of a Europe - Asia2 F award for 70,000 miles one way. An extra 4 hours in F for no extra outlay - thank you very much AA/CX.

That does not excuse CX from swapping out F from the route, but even a cursory search through FT will see that aircraft substitutions are frequent; when planning the trip I treated the short sectors as a bonus if it came in as F, and no worries if it didn't. Other AA flyers may not be so charitable to a failure in service provision.


Originally Posted by flyerfly (Post 16673433)
The nice bloke that sat next to me on CX739 (that was 2 weeks ago) which was changed from a 744 to a regional 773 received HK$1,500 as compensation for the downgrade from F to J. He seems rather happy about it. He slept through the entire flight without bothering anyone so guess he did not really care about whether he is in J or F.

After having stepped off a 12 hour flight AMS-HKG in F, the last thing I needed was anther six course meal. That said, an F flat bed would have been nice, but like your seatmate I just slept for the flight.

QRC3288 Jul 6, 11 1:10 am


Originally Posted by RupertC (Post 16676749)
If I booked a solo Asia2 sector and it got downgraded, I would be indignant. You can get HKG-SIN included as part of a Europe - Asia2 F award for 70,000 miles one way. An extra 4 hours in F for no extra outlay - thank you very much AA/CX.

Yea, this is the situation I was talking about. I don't expect AA fliers are using miles to redeem HKG-SIN alone....but I do think quite a few of them are booking tix from DFW/JFK/LAX (or Europe) to SIN, which obviously goes via HKG. So the cost of that second sector, as you say above, is quite low (sounds like free in some cases?!) to the AA traveler. So obviously he's going to make that "purchase". Whereas from CX's point of view, that guy is a remarkably low value pax since CX is probably getting peanuts for that sector from AA.

soccerpapi Jul 6, 11 9:58 am

Thank you for all the information- Policies and Procedures should be in place
 
Thank you to the OP's for all the information about your experiences.

It would seem to me that if CX has a habit of downgrading the 747-400 ( 74A ) aircraft on a regular basis on the HKG - SIN, HKG - BKK routes, that they should not offer First Class on these routes. Since there are only 9 seats in the First Class cabin, they could either leave the cabin empty or use it for their most frequent flyers and full fare connecting First Class passengers. The passengers would be booked in Business Class and the larger seat would be a bonus.

It seems strange to me that you would want to regularly downgrade First Class passengers - revenue or award - in a service business like an airline. Passengers that book any flight on any airline in First Class, clearly made that choice and should have the right that the service offered will actually be delivered. Why would CX want to involuntary downgrade First Class passengers on a regular basis? It just doesn't make sense to me.

The same situation would apply for any airline and in any downgrade situation. An airline should not sell Business Class tickets on a route that they regularly downgrade to, or generally operate with an all Economy Class version aircraft. Again, it just does not make sense to alienate your "ticketed" Premium Class passengers.

If I flew the HKG - SIN or HKG - BKK routes often, I probably would never purchase First Class on CX, and possibly just fly another airline that offered a more consistent product offering.

It also seems that CX could handle these situations better by having standard policies and prcedures in place to address them. There should be set procedure advising the affected passengers that the aircraft has been downgraded and the passengers options. These could include refunding the difference in fare paid for the sector, a set downgrade amount that is consistent at all affected airports , reboooking on another CX flight that offers First Class, rebooking on another airline that offers First Class departing within 3 - 4 hours. Keep in mind we are only referring to involunary downgrades on the day of departure, so the passenger already has a ticket in First Class. This should always entitle the passenger to some form of involutary downgrade compensation from what I understand or rebooking onto another flight that offers First Class.

It seems strange to me that CX does not have official procedures on how to handle these downgrades as they seem to happen so often. Maybe they do and the CX staff is not following them? It sounds like in many cases CX requires the passenger to request a resolution to the involuntary downgrade, where as it should be CX proactively offering a resolution to resolve the issue as they were the ones that involuntarily downgraded the ticketed passenger.

soccer

Happy Jul 6, 11 7:08 pm


Originally Posted by soccerpapi (Post 16679990)
It seems strange to me that CX does not have official procedures on how to handle these downgrades as they seem to happen so often. Maybe they do and the CX staff is not following them? It sounds like in many cases CX requires the passenger to request a resolution to the involuntary downgrade, where as it should be CX proactively offering a resolution to resolve the issue as they were the ones that involuntarily downgraded the ticketed passenger.

soccer

It is a sleazy act to deliberately keep it very opaque. Unless you know better to ask for options of compensation, you would get nothing.

Platinum Cub Aug 1, 11 6:46 am

Great information on this thread which caused me to review my upcoming TPE-HKG sector on Wednesday morning. Looks like there's an aircraft switch on CX 463from a 747 (originally booked in FC) to a 330 (with Regional BC seats).

In addition to asking for "compensation", should I try to at least get on CX 465 or 407 which (for right now) operates on a 343?


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