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chris_2020 Nov 28, 2023 8:57 am

Cathay Business: Overall impression?
 
Hi,

I'm looking to fly business on Cathay Pacific for the very first time, for long haul flight Amsterdam to Melbourne (with a brief layover in Hong Kong).

I noticed some of the images of Cathay Business look slightly dated, despite it often getting well reviewed. I am really keen to try and keep costs down for this flight in business, and Cathay is coming out the most affordable option at the moment for a OneWorld partner airline in Business to Australia. I'd love to try the Quite on Qatar but it just looks too expensive (a good 2k more for the return flights). My main concern is privacy, as when I travel business, I do really like some privacy, and I don't believe Cathay has doors?

If anyone could reassure me that this is a good product that would be hugely appreciated :) Or if there's any tips to pick a newer/refurbed plane maybe? Or indeed, if your opinion is the opposite, to avoid Cathay and to convert me to consider elsewhere... I'm based in London, so could fly from anywhere in Europe, but selecting Amsterdam just for now as that seems most affordable and best for Cathay, but technically could depart from anywhere...

Thanks so much,
Chris

CarefreeBA Nov 28, 2023 3:12 pm

A couple of things to note:

- CX Business is by far not the best product in the sky. As you mentioned, it's a balance between cost. I think that the overall experience on Cathay is brilliant, with consistently 'good' service, food.
- You value privacy. I have never not felt private despite the seat not having a door. My opinion stands that the door is a social construct; in a herringbone seat facing diagonally to the window, the door would be off your peripheral vision. I think the seat offers sufficient privacy.
- Look at the aircraft type operating your flight. I know that (the 1x daily) AMS-HKG is currently operated daily by an A35K. HKG-MEL not so sure. LHR is a mix at the moment. The seat is generally the same, with the differences between them being the progression of retrofits. The A35K are the newest aircraft in the fleet, so that'll be guaranteed if departing Amsterdam.
- and of course... great lounges on your layover in Hong Kong

oldchinahand Nov 28, 2023 11:43 pm

The Cathay long haul fleet is overall younger than most. The airline has over 40 X A350 aircraft and a youngish fleet of B777 - 20+ new version of the 777 that should have already joined the fleet is 4 years late being delivered due to the makers certification issues.

brunos Nov 29, 2023 2:57 am

CX has a solid longhaul J product and the pricing from AMS is quite attractive.

Its J seat is quite outdated compared to the best competition (even BA club suite) and lacks privacy.
Some of the seats show their age and have a small screen.
Food and wines are average and the CX J lounges in AMS or HKG are nothing to write home about.
Also be careful with your feeder flight. LHR is sometimes in chaos and flights to AMS are often delayed or even cancelled.

To summarize, CX is a very solid choice at that price. But don't expect it to be among the best product in the skies.

starvelk Nov 29, 2023 7:09 am

CX J is great but not over-the-top like its competitors e.g. QR's Q-suite, ANA's "The Room" etc...
Their seat is private and extremely roomy compared to other reverse herringbone seats (cos of CX's heavy customisations to the seat -- especially the footwell!), they also have one of the best IFEs in the sky. On the A35Ks out of AMS, some of them come with a brand new GUI (which resembles Netflix) and come with a new flight map.
Ground experience in HKG is impeccable. With lots of excellent lounges for lounge hopping, my personal favourite has to be "The Pier", which is quieter yet comes with all the amenities & offerings in the other lounges. Has a great apron view too!
Food and service on CX are consistently good, but not the best compared to other Asian carriers. CX's Chinese offerings are typically better than their Western offerings. For such a good price, I'd say absolutely go for it.
A word for advice on your HKG-MEL flight would be to try to fly on a flight operated on the A350. They come with the newer generation of CX's business class seat with more storage, space & the new IFE which is miles better than the one on the 77W.
Hope what I've said helps!

VE105 Nov 29, 2023 8:20 pm

Flying CX J is wonderful especially if you are flying their A350s. As mentioned by other posters, AMS route is now solely operated by their A35K, and from Dec onwards there will be 1 A350 flight per day for both LHR and MEL routes.

VE105 Nov 29, 2023 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by brunos (Post 35780501)
CX has a solid longhaul J product and the pricing from AMS is quite attractive.

Its J seat is quite outdated compared to the best competition (even BA club suite) and lacks privacy.
Some of the seats show their age and have a small screen.
Food and wines are average and the CX J lounges in AMS or HKG are nothing to write home about.
Also be careful with your feeder flight. LHR is sometimes in chaos and flights to AMS are often delayed or even cancelled.

To summarize, CX is a very solid choice at that price. But don't expect it to be among the best product in the skies.

I think the seats on A350 have more than sufficient privacy while not feeling claustrophobic, they are much better than 77Ws' as the "wings" (privacy shield) on A350 are much larger :D

percysmith Nov 30, 2023 2:15 am

MEL-DOH-AMS is a double Qsuite route. Jealous - that's hard to beat. Whether it's A$2,000 better, dunno...

MEL-HKG and HKG-AMS are Cirrus FB3 seats. Age wise, they're not old, but, they're not aging well.

soy Nov 30, 2023 7:23 pm


Originally Posted by chris_2020 (Post 35778347)
Hi,

I'm looking to fly business on Cathay Pacific for the very first time, for long haul flight Amsterdam to Melbourne (with a brief layover in Hong Kong).

I noticed some of the images of Cathay Business look slightly dated, despite it often getting well reviewed. I am really keen to try and keep costs down for this flight in business, and Cathay is coming out the most affordable option at the moment for a OneWorld partner airline in Business to Australia. I'd love to try the Quite on Qatar but it just looks too expensive (a good 2k more for the return flights). My main concern is privacy, as when I travel business, I do really like some privacy, and I don't believe Cathay has doors?

If anyone could reassure me that this is a good product that would be hugely appreciated :) Or if there's any tips to pick a newer/refurbed plane maybe? Or indeed, if your opinion is the opposite, to avoid Cathay and to convert me to consider elsewhere... I'm based in London, so could fly from anywhere in Europe, but selecting Amsterdam just for now as that seems most affordable and best for Cathay, but technically could depart from anywhere...

Thanks so much,
Chris

CX A350 seat and IFE is very good, and it is quite private. I agree with those that say the doors are largely a gimmick. CX lounges are excellent. I am less a fan of the catering, at least compared to QR or SQ. Not sure I could justify spending an extra 2k for QR, its better, but not that much better (unless its Other Peoples Money) :)

A bit off topic but as you are London based, if you are not already a member of BA Exec Club, join up before the flight at credit the miles to BA. The round trip on Cathay (assuming you are using BA to fly LON-AMS) will leave you just 2 short haul flights on BA away from Silver status, which will get you lounge access when flying BA. You could get almost 2yrs of silver status depending on when you join BA. Lots more info in the BA forum

leosantos Dec 2, 2023 2:47 pm

I was on two A350'sclast week. One was delivered in May this year the other was one of the first delivered. I have to say the old one was really worn out, The bathroom was awful in Business, the toilet seats were stained yellow. The seat area was shabby, dirty and falling apart.

oldchinahand Dec 2, 2023 6:56 pm

The bathrooms on those early delivered A350s have always been awful . It is something of a saga -when first delivered they literally fell to pieces. The doors would not close and the mirrors disintegrated. Cathay was compensated and the bathrooms fixed to a degree. Some I know have been largely replaced. There is I understand an ongoing program to refit those remaining as the aircraft become due for major servicing. As I recall the bathrooms were supplied by Airbus but were subcontracted and there was some ongoing problem with that contractor.
I agree the problem needs fixing properly.

leosantos Dec 5, 2023 3:42 pm


Originally Posted by oldchinahand (Post 35790640)
The bathrooms on those early delivered A350s have always been awful . It is something of a saga -when first delivered they literally fell to pieces. The doors would not close and the mirrors disintegrated. Cathay was compensated and the bathrooms fixed to a degree. Some I know have been largely replaced. There is I understand an ongoing program to refit those remaining as the aircraft become due for major servicing. As I recall the bathrooms were supplied by Airbus but were subcontracted and there was some ongoing problem with that contractor.
I agree the problem needs fixing properly.

Welcome to new world CX, your clothes will go out of fashion waitingfor them to spend money to serve their premium passengers.

oldchinahand Dec 5, 2023 7:15 pm


Originally Posted by leosantos (Post 35798654)
Welcome to new world CX, your clothes will go out of fashion waitingfor them to spend money to serve their premium passengers.

Utter nonsense - and without any supporting fact. This is of course because the 'facts' paint a totally different and mainly positive picture . It puzzles me why foak post these type of senseless remarks that are devoid of any factual support unless they have some personal dispute with the airline.
Rectifying these toilet issues I understand are the responsibility of Airbus who is in legal dispute with their contractor and Cathay is thus limited at this time to making sure that they and the doors are operational.

drivingflyingwalking Dec 6, 2023 12:51 am

Cathay chose a certain supplier to outfit the toilets on the early build A350 models much to the annoyance of Airbus because of issues with this particular vendor and questions around their solvency. Cathay insisted they use them because the price was extremely attractive. Cheapest is not always the best option as was quickly demonstrated.

tfung Dec 6, 2023 9:40 am


Originally Posted by leosantos (Post 35790156)
I was on two A350'sclast week. One was delivered in May this year the other was one of the first delivered. I have to say the old one was really worn out, The bathroom was awful in Business, the toilet seats were stained yellow. The seat area was shabby, dirty and falling apart.

For someone who hates CX so much, you seem to be flying them an awful lot! Maybe you should change to a different airline to lower your blood pressure...

oldchinahand Dec 7, 2023 1:14 am


Originally Posted by drivingflyingwalking (Post 35799536)
Cathay chose a certain supplier to outfit the toilets on the early build A350 models much to the annoyance of Airbus because of issues with this particular vendor and questions around their solvency. Cathay insisted they use them because the price was extremely attractive. Cheapest is not always the best option as was quickly demonstrated.

This not I believe correct. these toiliets were an Airbus catalogue product and used by many airlines who also experienced problems
The toilets fitted to the early Cathay A350s were the product developed between Airbus and its contractor which was became SAFRAN per this website: https://www.safran-group.com/product.../a350-lavatory
It was not a Cathay design. per the below partial quotes from Cathay

"Calling the lavatory really one of the worst examples” 'of the problems with the A350 finishing quality', Lo highlighted that Cathay Pacific is dealing with Airbus as the catalogue supplier of lavatories, rather than Safran Cabin (previously, as with the seats, Zodiac Aerospace). Again citing solutions put in place for the A350-1000, Lo said that the updated lavatories are being retroactively reinstalled on the -900 fleet. This may not go as far as entire lavatories being removed and exchanged, although given the extent of the problems this would not seem overkill. Lo noted that much of the materials making up the surfaces of the lavatories will, however, be replaced, but that supplier constraints are still a problem.“The progress is not just about whether we have ground time, it’s about how fast the supplier is able to provide those new materials. The pace is really set by Airbus for the lavatories,Cathay Pacific is not the only airline to be experiencing these problems, either with Safran’s seats or with its Airbus-supplied lavatories."

percysmith Dec 7, 2023 6:21 am


Originally Posted by tfung (Post 35800383)
For someone who hates CX so much, you seem to be flying them an awful lot! Maybe you should change to a different airline to lower your blood pressure...

Not being based here (GB) he has the free choice to go elsewhere. If he stays then that's the consequence of his own decisions.

US HK UK flyer Dec 7, 2023 9:44 am

Tbf, if one needs/wants to fly direct between HK and the UK there are only two choices right now, and BA is a worse experience at an often higher price.

I can see one being frustrated by that relative lack of choice if one has issues with Cathay.

percysmith Dec 7, 2023 11:23 am


Originally Posted by US HK UK flyer (Post 35803063)
Tbf, if one needs/wants to fly direct between HK and the UK there are only two choices right now, and BA is a worse experience at an often higher price.

I can see one being frustrated by that relative lack of choice if one has issues with Cathay.

If UK based it really is worth exporing an indirect carrier like QR. For starters, far easier to earn status travelling them (ironically - status on BAEC).

US HK UK flyer Dec 7, 2023 11:29 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 35803367)
If UK based it really is worth exporing an indirect carrier like QR. For starters, far easier to earn status travelling them (ironically - status on BAEC).

I agree re: status. If status is already obtained however or would be anyway there is the issue of connections made at very unfriendly hours and higher up front prices.

CX HK Dec 7, 2023 5:50 pm


Originally Posted by US HK UK flyer (Post 35803063)
Tbf, if one needs/wants to fly direct between HK and the UK there are only two choices right now, and BA is a worse experience at an often higher price.

I can see one being frustrated by that relative lack of choice if one has issues with Cathay.

Honestly we need VS to come back, along with a low cost carrier like Hong Kong Airlines...

Connecting with QR is not a bad option when traveling alone, but tougher when with family.

percysmith Dec 7, 2023 7:36 pm


Originally Posted by CX HK (Post 35804393)
but tougher when with family.

That does read as the classical definition of captive. Not much you can really do there, at least there's two dailies with BA from UK (c.f. US cities where your choice is CX, UA or indirect...)

oldchinahand Dec 8, 2023 12:54 am


Originally Posted by CX HK (Post 35804393)
Honestly we need VS to come back, along with a low cost carrier like Hong Kong Airlines...

Connecting with QR is not a bad option when traveling alone, but tougher when with family.

I have some hopes that VS will return and link with Virgin Australia again now that the AU based airline has ordered aircraft for lo(g haul routes and has already commenced flying to Japan ex AU.
Is Hong Kong Airlines low cost ? Low quality very possibly plus their old dated A330s they don't have the range to fly comfortably (old out-of date worn seats and shabby cabins with minimal entertainment) to LHR non-stop nor is the technically bankrupt airline flying currently other than short and mid haul routes.

CX HK Dec 8, 2023 1:05 am


Originally Posted by oldchinahand (Post 35805080)
I have some hopes that VS will return and link with Virgin Australia again now that the AU based airline has ordered aircraft for lo(g haul routes and has already commenced flying to Japan ex AU.
Is Hong Kong Airlines low cost ? Low quality very possibly plus their old dated A330s they don't have the range to fly comfortably (old out-of date worn seats and shabby cabins with minimal entertainment) to LHR non-stop nor is the technically bankrupt airline flying currently other than short and mid haul routes.

HK Airlines wasn't a LCC officially (it's a full service carrier with business class), but the prices - from what I recall - where absurdly low, especially for long haul J class.

And good point about their A330s, I didn't realize they returned all their A350's during the pandemic.

oldchinahand Dec 8, 2023 1:42 am

The airline has been loss making since inception -losses are huge and it has never made a cent. It is a subsidiary of a large China based bankrupt airline group that the mainland government is trying to remake with some success after spending billions.
It is just possible that HK Airlines could be salvaged and become a real player in HKG but it will take time and decent local management.

HarbourGent Dec 8, 2023 1:59 am

Having read the comments on the A350 in this thread last night, today on an A350 in regional business class I reflected on how accurate they are. Shabby toilet, part of it taped together. Part of my seat falling off, while a hard sweaty piece of cheese lurked under the armrest. Nowhere to put a laptop or tablet comfortably etc. Never mind the other problems with Cathay's declining service offering: the hard product alone is wanting.

leosantos Dec 8, 2023 5:12 am


Originally Posted by HarbourGent (Post 35805211)
Having read the comments on the A350 in this thread last night, today on an A350 in regional business class I reflected on how accurate they are. Shabby toilet, part of it taped together. Part of my seat falling off, while a hard sweaty piece of cheese lurked under the armrest. Nowhere to put a laptop or tablet comfortably etc. Never mind the other problems with Cathay's declining service offering: the hard product alone is wanting.

The sad thing is the management know very well they keep pushy crappy products at top notch prices.


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