woobl

Other than arriving yesterday morning to Sydney on CX161 14 hours later than scheduled, I haven’t put a claim in yet as I’m not sure the best way to do this with the airline - they don’t seem to have a clear line of communication for such things. I’ll contact them via the site and see what happens.

Cambo

Socialism is just a method of "redistributing wealth", especially towards those who like to hold-up their hands and as such "Political".

Consumer protection has little to do with socialism, it is just a wise item for the benefit of everybody (in this context: Flying).

The US does (also) have a lot of consumer protection laws, though simply not the ones you need to be protected against airline garbles. The US airline chaos would be a lot less, when EU(-alike) consumer protection schemes would be in place (and would make life for most travelers in the US much easier).

Cambo

Drop "eu-261" (with dash) in the search field on the CX site ,and you get a ton of links.

This is the link to start from for EU-261 consumer rights:

CX: Customer rights and regulations

Good luck, in general, I think, CX will just pay up, unless there were really extraordinary circumstances (in contrast to many other airlines, which try to wiggle out of their obligations).

percysmith

Why won’t CX try to wriggle too? No airline likes the EC261 obligations and won’t pay til taken to Small Claims or equivalent. Why would CX be any better?

To start off with they don’t even tell you where to write in a claim for compensation to.

csycsycsy

Because OP did suffer a delay of 14 hours? CX chooses to do business ex-EU knowing they are bound by EU regulations. It is OP's interest to defend his 'property rights', neither CX nor OP are NGO/non profits, maximising personal outcome is the epitome of anti-socialism? And as Cambo wrote, the EU261 is not socialism, as the compensation is directly paid from airlines to pax, without the gov taking and 'redistributing' the money. Perhaps you meant over-regulation? I have no idea what is the implied cost of EU261 that is transferred to passengers in the form of higher fares, which they can not 'opt out' from, and whether they could have done better buying their own travel insurance of price/coverage of their own choosing. I'm not sure if EU261 would cause CX to raise MCT, as in OP's case the next connecting flight is 14 hrs later, would OP have flown CX if that 14 hrs later connection was the only option?

Cambo

Granted, I am DM, though even during Covid, CX NEVER refused to refund me, compare that with the majority of airlines, who outright refuse with bogus reasons or give you useless vouchers.

What you complain about, is a general IT/website aspect, that "general" marketing information is separated from "actions".

On the other hand, at the bottom of the page I refer, there is an entry "contact us", and when you follow that, you get the opportunities to contact CX, from where ever you are on the globe. So, just use that.

CX: Contact Us

percysmith

You already belong to a different planet as far as CX is concerned. You also get 10.2.2.2 honoured when the rest of us need to take CX to Small Claims to avoid being stiffed by Refund Law.

Cambo

I don't know 10.2.2.2, though it might depend on how I communicate with airlines.......

The trick for that is to ask genuine questions, try to understand their position / point of view, and work from there to get a solution fitting with what I want and fitting their constraints/limitations. Does that work "always" ? Nop, though usually it does, and such an approach works much better than banging on a closed door, they don't want to open. Usually, there is another door, just around the corner giving a suitable solution and that door is open. You just need to find it and one can find that door by listening when they tell you where that door is. Easy ?

And the same applies during the travel. It even works when dealing with LH/OS cabin crew. Is it easy ? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, though there aren't many other ways to more or less get what you more or less want.

What maybe helps, is my 40+ years experience in International business, constantly dealing with unknown customers as well as suppliers, from all over the world, with all their peculiarities, "we are unique", "you have to do what I/we want", etc.

Good luck.

Cambo

Even OMAAT starts to lobby for more passenger protections:

OMAAT: Airlines Cancel Thousands Of Flights, Have Christmas Disaster

OMAAT: Southwest Airlines Cancels Most Flights, Gives Up

Granted a Lefty, though having a 15+ years experience with International flying, so certainly something genuine to say.

percysmith

Here Involuntary Change of Redemption Tickets . I know for a fact Diamonds will get rebooked in these situations but non-Diamonds won't - even if they have a CoC right (10.2.2.2).

I don't have a recent DP for EC261 where CX does have to pay EUR 600 comp <14 days and non-extraordinary circumstances for a non-Diamond. Will update my comments if I'm shown one.

Cambo

Sure, that's a textbook example of the wrong reaction type, an approach that is not going to work. When you keep banging on a closed door, you don't get something resembling what would be acceptable for you.

An approach to ask questions, understand the situation for both sides and work on a solution acceptable for both parties is a much better approach than pushing "this is what I want, and you have to do that". This is an approach that usually works much better, unless you deal with Putin or so.

And, another tip: Do not push for a solution "right now", give them time to work on it. Keep the emotions low, even when you think, you have all the rights of the world. Get ambassadors, you'll need them to plead for your case. The people you communicate with only have limited authority, and you need them to plea for you, not to let them have an indifferent position (or worse: "deny").

Though, feel free to know it better, and do different.

percysmith

what’s the “both sides” perspective when a) you’re contractually Involuntary Change of Redemption Tickets /regulatory entitled (yes, this term used deliberately) to something and b) you know their script is to deny given you’ve given them months to respond (yes, my own 10.2.2.2 case took from May until Nov when someone offered to pull strings for me, so I’ve been thru six agents one month each getting familiarised with the non-pull script).

walk away?

woobl

A semi-update - I put in a claim for EU-261 on the CX site via their comments and complaints page on the 28th, but have heard nothing since. Is there a way to contact them outside of that form that might get a response? Or just sit tight?

percysmith

Play by HKMA rules: 30 days for responding to any submission and further 30 days on any response.