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-   -   A350 and CX and EC261 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-cathay/1922330-a350-cx-ec261.html)

SAN_Finn Aug 3, 2018 12:32 am


Originally Posted by 1010101 (Post 30041902)
It's been fairly well established through court cases that faults are only covered if they are within the normal course of maintenance and aircraft operation. Hydraulic faults on a brand new type is probably outside that, and you'd need deep pockets to be the one to test it out.

I don't think that is quite correct. I know Finnair lost a case in court where the court said that an air condition leak issue (I believe it was a new aircraft also) is not an extraordinary fault and made Finnair pay the 600 euros (and I think about two hundred thousand euros of the other guys lawyer fees). The consumer advisory board in Finland also states that on most cases technical faults have to be covered by the airline.

SW7London Aug 3, 2018 12:47 am


Originally Posted by 1010101 (Post 30041902)
It's been fairly well established through court cases that faults are only covered if they are within the normal course of maintenance and aircraft operation. Hydraulic faults on a brand new type is probably outside that, and you'd need deep pockets to be the one to test it out.

I've never heard of this happening. How does the court determine that a fault is within the normal course of maintenance on a new aircraft, vs a fault that is because its a new type?

Can you cite some previous examples?

I just think every airline would be using this get out clause for any fault, on any aircraft under the age of 2 years if it was allowed!

rickywk Aug 3, 2018 12:55 am


Originally Posted by SAN_Finn (Post 30042256)
I don't think that is quite correct. I know Finnair lost a case in court where the court said that an air condition leak issue (I believe it was a new aircraft also) is not an extraordinary fault and made Finnair pay the 600 euros (and I think about two hundred thousand euros of the other guys lawyer fees). The consumer advisory board in Finland also states that on most cases technical faults have to be covered by the airline.

I thinks Bird strike/hail strike can opt out EC261 case, others technical problem should under EC261.

https://pointstobemade.boardingarea....ecj-klm-ec261/

KLflyerRalph Aug 3, 2018 11:29 am


Originally Posted by 1010101 (Post 30037879)
Extraordinary technical faults are not covered by EU261 beyond the basic duty of care.

Nonsense. Wallentin-Herman yielded the notion that technical issues are not deemed extraordinary circumstances. It is an inherent part of airline operations and thus compensation is due. Cathay can take it up with Airbus afterwards.

1010101 Aug 3, 2018 11:56 am


Originally Posted by SAN_Finn (Post 30042256)
I don't think that is quite correct. I know Finnair lost a case in court where the court said that an air condition leak issue (I believe it was a new aircraft also) is not an extraordinary fault and made Finnair pay the 600 euros (and I think about two hundred thousand euros of the other guys lawyer fees). The consumer advisory board in Finland also states that on most cases technical faults have to be covered by the airline.

Its not whether its a standard fault on a new aircraft, its whether its a manufacturing fault that has only just shown itself for the first time. Ultimately its up to the passenger to test it which airlines know most wont.

etkuo Aug 8, 2018 2:13 pm


Originally Posted by andy1022 (Post 30039133)
In my experience, they will credit you based on the original flight schedule.


Originally Posted by ernestnywang (Post 30041198)
You can credit based on original routing if it suits you better. However, if the new route earns more miles and MPO points, one should be able to get that.

Just a quick update. I ended up getting the new route credits. MEL-HKG was credited (instead of the original PER-HKG) 2 days after the flight, and today I just got the credit (CP+AM) for the QF PER-MEL.

1010101 Aug 9, 2018 2:43 am


Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph (Post 30044020)
Nonsense. Wallentin-Herman yielded the notion that technical issues are not deemed extraordinary circumstances. It is an inherent part of airline operations and thus compensation is due. Cathay can take it up with Airbus afterwards.

As i already said, it depends on the issue. Issues within normal airline operations do not count but extraordinary issues outside the control of the airline do. See the Rolls Royce 787 problems.

percysmith Aug 9, 2018 3:54 am


Originally Posted by 1010101 (Post 30063795)
See the Rolls Royce 787 problems.

Was Rolls Royce 787 decided one way or another? I don't mean BA bleating on their top of the lungs that it is extraordinary circumstances, I mean a court or regulator saying that it is or not.

1010101 Aug 9, 2018 4:28 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 30063906)


Was Rolls Royce 787 decided one way or another? I don't mean BA bleating on their top of the lungs that it is extraordinary circumstances, I mean a court or regulator saying that it is or not.

The CEDR are rejecting claims but i don't think anyone has taken the court route to decide once and for all. BA would almost certainly pay up to stop it getting that far.

percysmith Aug 9, 2018 4:35 am


Originally Posted by 1010101 (Post 30063960)
The CEDR are rejecting claims but i don't think anyone has taken the court route to decide once and for all.

Thanks. Any post with data point?

1010101 Aug 9, 2018 5:10 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 30063978)
Thanks. Any post with data point?

There is a whole thread about it on the BA forum - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...61-2004-a.html

If you search through it you can see compensation is being rejected by the independent adjudicator CEDR but nobody has taken it far enough yet to get a binding court decision.

percysmith Aug 9, 2018 8:16 am


Originally Posted by 1010101 (Post 30064033)
There is a whole thread about it on the BA forum - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...61-2004-a.html

If you search through it you can see compensation is being rejected by the independent adjudicator CEDR but nobody has taken it far enough yet to get a binding court decision.

who got rejected? RbAA's case hasn't been decided yet https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post30000039

you may be right but I'm just curious to see it.

1010101 Aug 9, 2018 8:35 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 30064421)


who got rejected? RbAA's case hasn't been decided yet https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post30000039

you may be right but I'm just curious to see it.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post29416868

Really, nobody knows. BA are rejecting them, the CEDR seem to be rejecting them, and no-one knows what a court will say and perhaps never will because BA would certainly settle before anyone took it that far.


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