Removing the segment between stopover point and final destination
 

I'm flying CX from SFO - HKG (stopover for a few days) - AAA (final destination, stay for a week) - HKG (connection) - SFO. Now, due to changes in family members' travel plans, I want to book a separate one-way ticket from HKG (original stopover) - BBB (new stopover) - AAA on the outbound after the stop over, on either CX or another airline. Can I have the SIN - AAA segment removed on the outbound? My travel agent says the segment after the stopover can be deleted without penalty (or refund), and it won't trigger a 'no show' and CX won't cancel my return flight from AAA to SFO.

The fare rules states:
"TRANSFERS: FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED AND EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT."

So, can I have the travel agent delete the segment right after the stop over on the outbound, fly on a separate ticket to the original destination AAA, and then go board the return from the AAA without any issues? If yes, then should the segment be deleted before or after I fly the first segment to HKG, and does it make a difference?

Thanks!

PS. Please pardon the repost. I posted it on an old thread in a different forum it went unnoticed.

Tickets need to be used in sequence. What your TA told you does not sound right. A re-issue is almost definitely needed. The only scenario I could think of is that your ticket has no penalty for re-issue nor does your TA charge you service fee for re-issue, and there is no additional fare that needs to be collected (meaning the new itinerary costs the same or less), so the TA can do a re-issue for free.

Are the flights on separate tickets? As ernestnywang said, an e-ticket must be used in sequence. If you do not fly a segment, you cannot fly any subsequent segments on the same ticket. So you should ask your TA to clarify.

Assuming your return leg is a transfer i.e. stop at HKG for less than 24 hours, then I guess your TA is suggesting you to reroute your HKG-AAA segment to become HKG-BBB-AAA. If your ticket allows then it is ok. If you want to drop HKG-AAA segment and then continue to fly the second half of your ticket... Sorry unlikely you can

Be extremely careful in your terminology and thus what you ask for:

1. You can't "remove" or "delete" anything. You may or may not be able to change your ticket.
2. If your transfer time is <24 hours, you have a connection.
3. 24+ hours, it is a stopover.

I would call your TA and determine whether there is any cost for doing what you seek to do and, if there is a cost, how much that cost might be. Not all changes are as expensive as people sometimes think they will be, so it is always worth asking. Just make certain that you explain in detail exactly what you want and instruct the TA not to do anything until you have the facts in front of you and have made a decision.

Thanks all for the clarification.

My return from AAA - HKG - SFO has a connection (<24h) in HKG. On the outbound, (SFO - HKG - AAA), I have a 3 day stopover in HKG and a one week stay at the destination AAA. What I was thinking and my travel agent said is possible is to just delete the HKG - AAA segment on the outbound, and buy a separate ticket from HKG - BBB (stopover for a few days) - AAA. I want to then fly back from AAA - HKG - SFO on the original ticket's return segments.

Seems it's risky or impossible to just delete the HKG - AAA segment without losing the return flight. Instead, if I were to just postpone the HKG - AAA segment, then I could buy a separate round trip ticket from HKG - BBB - HKG, and then fly the HKG - AAA segment a few days later. If I were to change the date of the HKG - AAA, would it be cheaper to do it after flying the first segment (during my stopover in HKG) rather than before? Do they use different fares (current vs originally booked) for repricing before vs after flying the first segment?

Thank you.

it is always possible if you are paying enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cxfan1960 (Post 29160315)

Are the flights on separate tickets? As ernestnywang said, an e-ticket must be used in sequence. If you do not fly a segment, you cannot fly any subsequent segments on the same ticket. So you should ask your TA to clarify.

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As cxfan1960 correctly pointed out, if HKG-AAA were on a separate ticket to begin with, yes you can choose to no show and it would not impact you (but check if it is refundable and will have value left after the penalty), as it is a stand alone sector on an independent ticket. If this is not the case and your TA still claims that you will be fine without a re-issue (meaning you will get a new e-ticket number that does not include HKG-AAA, with or without payment) without being able to offer you any special documentation from CX (as in that the TA negotiated this special case for you with CX directly), as a part-time TA myself I must beg to doubt whether your TA knows his / her stuffs.

As to whether you should re-issue before or after departure of the first segment, there are some risks that you will have to take. YR has increased in the past few months (and price may or may not be the same, for this we would need very specific information - date of issue, fare basis, and itinerary - on your ticket to figure out), so chances are if you re-issue now, you will have to pay for at least the higher YR if not a higher new fare. If there is an advanced purchase restriction, you might be forced to buy a higher fare. On the other hand, if you wait till your arrival in HKG to change your HKG-AAA flight, by then availability might have run out. Also note that in case everything is on one ticket, then SFO-HKG-AAA is likely one fare component and will have to be priced together. For example, if you have SFO-HKG and HKG-AAA in V class, and right now HKG-AAA has only M class left, you will need to rebook SFO-HKG to M class, too, whether you have flown the segment or not. If you are changing this before first segment is flown, and now SFO-HKG has only H class left, you might not even be able to rebook to M class (this, however, is up to CX's discretion). I know this may seem overly complicated to you, but in short, we can't know with the information we have been provided, and in any case there will be some risks involved.

PS: Back when seat guarantee was possible all the way to V class, it was usually a better idea for GO and DM to re-issue after first segment was flown.



I believe you meant to say "If your connection time is <24 hours, you have a transfer." Transfer and stopover are the standard fare rule terms.

Thank you ernestnywang for the detailed explanation. I could follow most of what you said, except the part about how they calculate the fare difference. It is a R class (PE) fare. The fare basis expired a couple of months ago. If you want and it's not a bother, I can send you more info via pm. I have no status with CX, though I have OWS (AA Plat)..

Can you explain how the fare guarantee works and whether it applies to R class fares? Currently, for the HKG - AAA leg, only W fare is available for the new date that I would like, if they would change it. Does that mean I won't be able to just pay the change fee (or not pay if they waive it)? Would this make any difference for date change or rerouting the outbound to BBB before/after the first segment is flown?

Sure, PM me. I believe I have access to most ex-USA CX fares (including historical), but I don't have US POS access to see the availability an agent in the US sees. If you or someone here has EF then this should not be an issue. Unfortunately, AA PLT doesn't help here, and seat guarantee is moot now. CX changed MPO 1.5 years ago and now restricts it to full-fare classes only. Previously, if you are GO (YBHKMLV) or DM (JCWYBHKLMV), and you have at least 24 hours (DM) or 72 hours (GO) between your first and second segment, you can pretty much always do a re-issue after first segment is flown by invoking seat guarantee and not have to worry about availability running out.

Thank you for answering my questions here and via pm. Much appreciated.

I'm looking at the fare rules for the currently booked R fare. I wonder what these two items mean under the change rules:

CX R- FARE FAMILY GOVERNED BY IPRP 5600 I S USED

CATEGORY 19 DISCOUNTS APPLY (it's right after the line about change fees)

All my legs are originally booked in R. If I were to change the flight after the stopover (i.e. while I'm in HKG on the outbound couple of days before the HKG-AAA flight) for the new date I prefer, flight availability in EF shows plenty of availability W9 R9 E9 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9..

But looking at the currently available fares for the new date I prefer, only Y, W and J fares are available. No current R fares are available. After I fly the first leg, during my stopover in HKG (though my final destination is AAA), will they let me use the originally ticketed fare in R class with the seat availability in R, rather than asking me to buy a currently available fare? If it's the former, then that's great, I'll just have to pay the change fee. If latter, then I have some questions:

1. Can they rebook me into a Y fare? Y costs more than R. So, will they ask me to pay the fare difference? I'm not sure what they mean by higher fare - is that by cost or cabin?

2. If I fare becomes available (it's not there currently, so I don't have high hopes), then how can I ask to be rebooked into I instead of R for that segment? The R fare in my ticket sometimes books into the I class for the intra-asia segment. I wonder if there is a way to ask for the I class seat.

3. If no R class seats are available by that date, can I ask them to rebook me into a lower class (discount economy) if available, rather than paying a higher such as W?

Finally, during my arrival in HKG, where should I go to find the closest CX customer service desk for the flight change? Do they have a desk near the path that arrival passengers take, or should I go back into the ticketing entrance to do that? I don't think I'll be able to get to the transit area since I don't have an immediate connection due to stopover.

Thank you!

By the way, in my fare fules, the very first item under VOLUNTARY CHANGES says:

My first segment is US gateway - HKG. I have a stopover for 4 days and then I fly to AAA. Then I return from AAA to US Gateway with a connection in HKG.

Rule 1 above says: 1. NO CHANGE TO STOPOVERS AND CONNECTIONS/1ST FLIGHT COUPON/FARE BREAKS

Does 1ST FLIGHT COUPON mean the first segment, or my entire ticket (single ticket covers my whole journey)? Does the first rule allow me to change the date of the onward segment after stopover on the outbound?

If same (R) class seats are available on the new date I want for the segment after the stopover (HKG - AAA), even if a current R fare is not available, can I just pay the change fee and get it changed using my originally ticketed fare basis? This might solve everything I need with this trip. Experts, can you advise please.

In contrast, this is what it says in the first item for changes after departure. It doesn't say 1ST FLIGHT COUPON anymore:

Thank you.

1st flight coupon means whatever the first flight is on your ticket. In your example, SFO-HKG. If there were domestic connections, say an AA domestic flight to SFO, that AA flight will be the 1st flight coupon. I would interpret "NO CHANGE TO STOPOVERS AND CONNECTIONS/FARE BREAKS" to mean no changes to routing, meaning all cities, sequence of cities, and O/X (stopover or transfer) cannot be changed, and only date and flight can be changed. I am not 100% sure on this, so if others can confirm or prove otherwise that would be great. In your case, if you are simply changing HKG-AAA to another date that has R class (or I class), it looks like it would just be the change penalty, as you are not changing SFO-HKG. I also believe that for this you can make the change right now, but better just call CX to ask if CX is willing to take over the ticket and make the change. If neither R nor I is available, I believe you can be booked in B class, too.

Usually if R class is not the first segment and is available on the new date, CX can change your ticket with just the penalty AFTER you fly the first segment. I believe CX will not touch the e-ticket before your first flight. However, if you change your e-ticket with your TA, they may ask for (i) additional processing fee (not just the penalty), and (ii) if there is a fare increase, you will have to pay the re-ticketing fare difference too.