I seriously doubt that such representation would change their minds. Any decision would be made on a much larger scale and as the result of a lot of consideration and analysis.

As usual, you are almost certainly right!!

I talked with some representatives from Membership & Loyalty at a Diamond event last month, I think from time to time they have some internal discussion but personally I strongly oppose the idea of creating lifetime DM. This lifetime thing will only induce a bunch of snobbish over-the-hill ex-loyal customers who now wouldn't fly with CX regularly but still yearn for all the frequent flyer benefits. Unless a lifetime member can introduce his offspring to the world of Cathay and help to "create" a future DM, I see no benefits from the airline's side to grant people this status.

Exactly! If one is going to spend a large bunch of money on CX every year, he wouldn't need lifetime status, and if one is not going to spend much on CX in the coming future, he does not deserve all the DM/OWE benefits.

I understand the spirit (and what Percy is saying too), but I think the take is a bit harsh and one sided.If this thread proves anything, and what I think the naysayers overlook, it is that value can be created by dangling a benefit in front of people to be earned. The posts above make quite clear travelers will steer money a certain direction - in this case, to the BA ecosystem somehow - if they see a prize at the end. Okay, so it needn't be as "easy" to earn as BAs thing. Certainly there is a way to design it so CX could extract benefits for themselves.

For example: CX has, whether by accident or design, finally stumbled upon the fact that it's clever to hold back award inventory for its own program and even give special inventory to GOs and DMs, instead of dumping award inventory to American Airlines and Alaska. Guess what? You see the mileage bloggers now dutifully flogging the benefits of MPC whereas before it was deemed a mostly worthless program for those types. There is something of a zero sum game between airlines and their mileage programs - "better"/larger programs tend to earn at the expense of those like MPC. Yet CX has a product that is aspirational for many fliers native to other programs and thus there is (has been for a long time) untapped bargaining power that CX has been either too inept or unwilling to fully tap into. Now, those changes seem to be slowly happening. One such benefit to dangle, could be lifetime OWE.

I'm not saying it's going to happen or should, just I can definitely see how lifetime *could* make sense: as another way to try and increase value at CPLP.

Of course there is a cost to lifetime OWE. Undeniable. A benefit for us is a cost for CX. This can also, of course be quantified so it's just a math problem, not some bogeyman that is all mysterious and frightening. Maybe the math could even work out! (Or maybe not). I will add, with some amusement that I'm not sure who the typical DM is, but I don't see myself suddenly quitting my 16 years of spending on CX mostly in premium cabins, to switch it up to fly Y so I can mooch off my lifetime OWE benefits, were I to get such a thing!

The year by year thing is indeed challenging. It does just feel a little weird if you got booted out after a light year in say 20-25 years as a DM. After all, many of us in this forum are far more "CX" than current executives at CX themselves! I see people upthread talking about 18, 19 year consecutive Diamonds. How many travelers are there like that out there?

I never saw the benefit to CX of letting grAAber/grASper churners such wide access to low-reimbursement partner seats.

Then again I'm not running CX or any airline's revenue department. Maybe they see something we don't.

Still, it'll be getting to the level of We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism in order for CX to reinstate lifetime DMs.

The existence of decades-long DMs like yourself shows there is no need to do anything more.

Probably CX may want to consider giving lifetime status to some passengers, whose travel is not overly constricted by managed corporate travel, not based in HK and who may have an abundance of options to choose from e.g. Kangaroo route or SEA-US. But how do you reward these "worthy" pax without also rewarding home hub captives, who are just going to spend no matter what?

Also, unlike say Japan duopoly, UK (when BMI was still around to challenge BA) or US Big 3, there's not as strong an ecosystem of home customers that you have to dangle a nebuchadnezzar-sized carrot in order to lock up. At most CX can imitate QF (and more recently MH at 4MM), where you might get lifetime benefits after spending your life getting there (as djsflynn said).

Thanks for this thoughtful response with which I completely agree. But then I guess I am characterised as one of these “snobbish over the hill” types so my voice doesn’t matter! 😀😀😀

I don't think any OW flyers would consider this unless they were at the beginning of their flying 'career': by the time anyone on a OW FF programme moves to HK, they would have already racked up significant mileage on their relevant programme. For example by the time I asked for this forum's advice back in 2016 I was already on around 20k out of the required 35k BAEC tier points for lifetime OWE, so it would have made no sense to restart anywhere else.

It would be different if you moved to HK on another alliance (eg. as a Delta flier from the US, or Lufthansa flier from Europe etc) and could pick any OW programme from scratch, in which case Finnair might make sense.

Bear in mind that the very nature of the air travel industry and the international nature of many of our personal and business lives means that the topic is much more nuanced than a simple cost-benefit analysis. For example, the carrot that BA dangled in front of me didn't steer much money in their direction - the prime beneficiaries were actually CX and MH. For an equivalent North American based BAEC member it would have been AA and AS as the main benficiaries. Yes, BA get some indirect benefit as these airlines buy points from them to credit the FF miles, but that's it.

I’m also trying to square the relatively mutually exclusive goals of:

1) getting advantaged redemption for personal travel, which will make people gravitate towards home hub carrier; and

2) encouraging loyalty from non-hub members (Kangaroo and PH-US flyers iro CX)

Maybe (2) isn’t a realistic objective of any lifetime incentive, which can only work in the member’s hub.

(But then again what is the competitive imperative to make CX do (1) on lifetime basis?)

An interesting debate above on the nature of interaction between an airline and its frequent flyers.

Is it transaction-based? You're worth money at the moment? Okay we'll treat you well. No longer worth us the money? Then you're no-one.

Or is it relationship-based? You've been worth money over time? Okay, we'll treat you well even if you're not worth the money now.

I'm quite old-school on this matter: you can't run a business on a transactional basis. There's a high-end restaurant I used to go to lots for business and pleasure. I then moved offices and it became less convenient to go there. But whenever I do pop back for some weekend yum cha, I still always get comped some dessert or drinks. They don't have to, but it's a nice touch which engenders positive views of the place. I dare say it may even subconsciously influence my choice of dining venue.

If there is no viable competition for hub customers they can.

(also can: QF, MH. Cannot: NH/JL/AA/DL/UA/AS. BA was a holdover when they still had to compete with BMI)

I’ve switched far more restaurants than I’ve switched airlines.

If I no longer had any OW status, it would make me more likely to try out other products which I would not have in the past - for example ANA or EVA J to North America, Emirates or Etihad J or perhaps even F westbound, Air France First to experience the lounge etc (from what I hear, all are great products).

Lifetime OWE will make me stick with Oneworld airlines, for better or for worse. It's an interesting dynamic, because it's basically BAEC that's making me a sticky CX customer, not CXMP!

Then why give you something for lifetime when CX can do it year by year to keep you coming back?

Just read how indefinite memberships in Japan can create free agents https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/all-...l#post36321795

All good points but then you throw in the CX price premium these days at the front of the plane and perhaps with corporate types who retire and have to start paying on their own coin (but who still travel a lot) and the price sensitivity becomes an issue. So they decamp to SQ, TG etc..