What cx could do is to create a new tier diamond elite where only flying in J/f counts. So it would be like pps whereby you may bank your miles in any oneworld airlines but if you are flying in cx f/j metal, you will be awardes "diamond elite sectors" to qualify you for is sector. In this way, diamond y flyers can still continue to aspire to diamond or gold while they give recognisation for j/f high revenue flyers. :)

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B142 Safari/8536.25)

Or a silver plus gold plus and diamond plus status where only qualified fare counts.

Uh, presuming what you said is right - then why can't CX follow SQ and do PPS?

Because after all - as usual, presuming what you said is true - there will be a tonne more corporate accounts and corporate flying as compared to SIN. And hence all the more they need to cut bloated queues and people that they don't want in the higher tiers of MPC.

Just to throw this in the picture...

Do airlines even need frequent flyer programs? I mean, I know I'd still fly with CX if they didn't have one.

I'm based in SYD at the moment so say if I was flying SYD-HKG and the option was QF J with their FFP vs. CX J without an FFP, I'd probably still fly with CX. If I was based in HKG and frequent trips to NYC or JFK, again CX would be my preferred airline and they'd pretty much be no competition.

In the same logic, do people stay at Four Seasons or MO for status? The properties themselves are good enough to make you want to come back.

I see CX in the same position along with only a handful of other airlines (SQ, QR, OZ, EY) where I'd gladly fly their premium classes over others even if it meant not getting any FFP credits.

FF make sense at the edges. They don't sway the core groupies much, but make a difference for those "on the fence".

Personally, as a oneworld emerald I choose CX over SQ, and that's mostly due to the benefits accruing through the FFP.

i choose OW over *alliance even though i am based in Singapore due to my FFP with QR. CX has became my choice carrier for Intra Asia flights over Eva/SQ/Thai.

It makes people more tolerant of short-comings and less likely to switch based on a few negative experiences. Say you had a couple of bad services on board a particular route with competition (say SQ). If you have MPO you tend to overlook those negatives, or should we say because of FFP such as MPO it made you more tolerant to these short-comings. But say the world suddenly changes and no one offers FFP, after a couple of bad experiences people will likely switch to a comparable airline.

Despite what people says about FFP, it works, that's why everyone offers it.

That's the whole point - they are considering it, and I'm sure this is one of the factors that makes them think they can do it.

IIRC at least, Singapore is Asia's largest hub for forex and commodities. Given that both have to do with trading and that forex is the largest market for trading in the world, I'm finding your statement rather dubious.

But then again,

You've agreed with me that CX can do what SQ did with PPS. Apologies about that - I mixed you up with Cathay Boy.

I meant proprietary trading, not the commercial banking sort.

yea, i was mentioning BR - I have my first long-haul on them soon to the US. Cannot wait. The hard product is fantastic, and jsut browsing some trip reports looks like BR has a solid soft product too (with Dom in J the wow factor for sure). Fair points about Europe, I primarily fly to North America so I wasn't aware of their weakness in BKK going the other way.

I am exactly the kind of passenger CX might lose if they screw this up. I pay for my travel now and have for a few years. Kept DM on my own dime for years. Most is business travel but either way I pay for it and I decide who I use. Really did not consider any other programs due to blind loyalty to CX, and....whether fair or not....this thread has encouraged me to finally look at the alternatives. The cuts CX has instituted over the last 4-5 years to the DM program (including the freebie Diamonds to Amex members that spiked the #s in HKG, a remarkable downgrade for the ability to confirm and redeem AM awards as a Diamond on what is already a stingy earn/burn, and recent elimination of the seat block) I guess got us to this point now.

There are only a few possibilities here.
1.) Goldilocks: CX institutes a program that "Titaniums" love, CX significantly improves the "soft" services like F&B in J class, but doesn't really downgrade the DM and GO experience as it stands today. Personally, I'm doubtful of this scenario. To me, most of the value from "DM" comes from being on board and the crew knowing you are someone they should look out for. Take, for example, that hamburger which is usually only loaded 4x on a J class flight to North America. I have never ordered one and had them run out - once, CX saved me one without me asking. Had I not been DM, no chance I got that. Service, by and large, is excellent in this regard. It will be totally natural if there is a higher group that DMs will be treated less special on the plane. Currently, DM+ is so exclusive that at best there is one on a flight, and usually none. Regardless, if somehow CX can keep the integrity of the lower tiers but add Titanium, OR if CX significantly improves their F&B and soft services without me having to be DM/Titanium to get it, I will probably stay loyal to CX because I know there is a tier higher and I likely am in the ballpark for being able to spend the amount they want for Titanium.

2.) Downgrade to lower tiers: I think this is most likely. If DM and GO become second class citizens, and Titanium is really the new "DM" just dressed up with a few more fancy things (chauffeurs, a Titanium lounge, etc), I will probably look elsewhere unless CX significantly improves their soft services. As I mention with BR above, the competition is out there with increasingly strong soft and hard products. I get a great soft product from CX because I'm DM, and if I need to spend to be Titanium to get what I already do, I feel like I've got a gun to my head. (mind you, I'm assuming the spending requirement is somewhere near the PPS levels). In order to hit Titanium, I will have to stay completely dedicated to CX, probably a little more than I am now (I still fly other carriers especially after I clear the DM hurdle...CX, this is so easy to fix...). Whereas I could just book BR to the US (or EK to Europe, or whatever), and still get pretty good service without even having to be elite! On CX I feel like I get great service standards because I am DM, and that's a huge factor influencing my purchase decision. In my last 6+ years as a DM, I've probably spend in excess of $40k USD 3 to 4 times in a year. Definitely 2 years I wouldn't get Titanium, maybe 3. So my point is, I'm on the fence I don't think I can clear it every year and it will take dedication in my spending and flying patters to keep Titanium every single year. To me, what is the point of getting Titanium one year if I'm a "lowly" Diamond the next year, which is a completely emasculated version of the current program? This is my beef, and this is why I will probably consider switching my loyalty elsewhere if CX downgrades the DM tier in favor of Titanium, even though I can probably hit Titanium 50% of the time.

3.) Hybrid change: First off, CX already has a good idea who spends what. I can practically set my calendar to invites to MPC events by how much I'm spending on CX and KA tickets. 18 months of no invites? Oh that must mean my spend has dropped. 4 invites in a year?! What a surprise that's when I'm spending a lot. They definitely know who spends and who doesn't. CX could easily institute benefits for folks who cross 150k or 200k miles a year, or wherever they want to set the goalposts, or a $$ spent thing. They could also make a Titanium lounge only, which is an invite-only club that only allows ticketed F pax and Titanium members. And CX could stop handing out partner awards like candy, because us AM/MPC members are heavily incentivized to earn to another program the way it stands. This creates a viscious cycle where CX needs a few partner awards on flights, but then MPC members - even DMs like myself - cannot get award inventory released when we want it, and what happens is you get F class filled up with inexpensive partner award tickets while the more expensive Asia Miles/MPC members get op-ups for free! This is just idiotic logic. I had an experience last year where I tried to upgrade J-F to SFO using Asia Miles ~4 weeks out, no award availability. I can see seats for sale (mind you, 5 years ago that seat woul'dve been released. Had the same problem with a J ticket a few weeks ago). I asked MPC to ask a supervisor, a few minutes later they politely told me they couldn't release a seat to me despite 2 seats available for sale. I decided to let it rest, didn't waitlist. Cut to my flight 4 weeks later.....I got op-upped to F. There were 5 of us in the cabin. Including an American family of 3 who had burned AA miles 6 months in advance. This is just such low hanging fruit for CX I don't know what to say except something isn't firing on all cylinders over there. I've got an idea - hold back on the # of partner awards they release and reduce the burn for AM members. Incentivize us to burn our Asia Miles instead of making us jump through absurd hoops and waitlists to get awards!

Lastly, I really wonder what the average length of a DM's tenure is. I have an industry-specific sample only, but in my experince many, many DMs are DMs for just a few years. They fly a lot, their banking firms spend a lot on tickets, but these travelers ultimately do not have much discretion about who they fly. In fact, you'll have 45 year old managing directors being booked on CX in j and f because, well that's the company policy. Their dollars, for better or worse, are going to CX no matter what and they'll move back to new york in a few years anyway and replaced by someone else who will also fly on cx. Catering a FF program to my friends is not exactly the wisest thing to do because they are already your customers. Overall service, soft product, delivery of the F product, the award program, and other issues need to be dealt with and I think the complaints will shake themselves out.

If anyone from CX is reading this, dare I say the MPC program is the reason I stay with CX. It is far and above superior to the other two programs I was famliar with before moving to HKG - UA and AA. Would be a shame to see it changed in a way that ultimately degrades the program.

i think CX needs to do something to reward folks who give them money over prolonged periods of time. at least 3 years, ideally 5. lifetime is one way to judge that.

I still want to be able to get mileage such that I can enjoy a free holiday as a result of work travel, so it would likely push me to the competition (plus, I want to get the best experience possible to improve my work productivity when on the road, and the most comfortable experience when on holiday.)

For SIN, I feel the bigger competition for HKG is NRT/HND/ICN/PEK/SHA.
(MU TPAC has had attractive fares, plus Singaporean nationals can enter China for 14 days, and Americans/Canadians/Malaysians can use TWOV in China.)

Speaking about ASEAN, another point need to be look also. I believe Indonesia contributes quite significantly to SQ. With the raising of GA, which offer non-stop service to Aussie, and North Asia (HKG, PVG, PEK, NRT/HND), I bet somehow it erotes SQ market shares.

Not to mention the ME carrier, which now offering direct service to CGK from their ME hub, makes traveling from CGK to Europe as 1 stop service, compare to 2 stops service when they are transiting in SIN en route to their ME hub. With this fact and normally cheaper fare compare to SQ, many Indonesian travelers have switched from SQ to these ME carriers.

I guess SQ has bigger headache on competition compare to CX.