Cathay Potential A380 Order
http://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/wi...id_758025.html
The article is in German, so translate if possible. In John Leahy's outlook he hints that Airbus is very close to an A380 order from CX and will be announced at Farnborough. Exciting times...I hope this order happens ! |
Cathay Pacific or HK Airlines I wonder?
It's just that the A380 is such a bad fit for CX (operations-wise) and good fit for HX (market positioning- and egos-wise) that I really think the German magazine might have mistook the hint and named the wrong airline! |
This is really odd. Is CX under the control of China's Aeronautical Board? If so, aren't they really strict about A380 orders? I remember an Air China country representative telling me that CA has been denied numerous times for a bid for an A380 and that aircraft sees perfect for CA operations.
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Translation (from Google Translate):
Airbus expects surge in orders for A380 The aircraft maker Airbus expects despite the damage to his image crack-ridden flagship A380 with a new surge in orders. "It is not easy, but we want to collect this year, orders for 30 A380," Airbus sales chief John Leahy said on Thursday in Toulouse - a good six weeks before the big air show in Farnborough. In the new long-haul A350 Leahy holds this magnitude to be realistic. On the mass market of medium-range aircraft, he sees the power of rival Boeing broke 60 percent market share to Airbus are permanently available. Where do the new jobs for the double-decker A380, should not be said Leahy. The airline Emirates, which had ordered 90 copies and in some cases has been in operation in December made a further order in view. A380 Marketing Director Richard Carcaillet also hinted that the airline Cathay Pacific could sign an order. With the companies from Hong Kong Airbus negotiated for several years. For the A380, the manufacturer has about 180 orders on the books. This year, 30 of the double-decker aircraft left the factory buildings. However, plans to slow down the wing parts production. Overall, Airbus plans to collect this year, over 570 gross orders for aircraft - more than this year will be built. Of which were achieved after the first four months only 112 - and at the same time conceding 17 cancellations. Typically, many deals will be announced on the major air shows. Is close to London from the 9th July the Farnborough Air Show at. It was not until 2013, the crack-prone mounting brackets are replaced in the wings of the A380 aircraft delivered to date by 74 newly developed parts of another metal alloy. According to program director Tom Williams make each jet by about 90 kilograms heavier. In new machines, the new parts are installed before 2014 - all others must again after delivery for repair. Only usually in the current year, the problem the group is expected 260 million euros - plus 105 million from last year and further charges 2013th "We thought we had the technology under control," said Airbus CEO Tom Enders. Now, the problem would cost Airbus' money and reputation, "said the manager, who aufrückt soon at the head of parent company EADS. From the problems of the A380 you have learned a lot - especially about the combination of conventional and novel materials. This should also benefit the development of the A350. The new high-tech aircraft such errors should not happen. The A350 will have 53 percent of carbon fiber composites. 2013, the first A350-machine to take off, early to mid-2014 is the delivery of the first jets provided. The schedule is still "challenging," EADS was CFO Hans Peter Ring says only a few days. How quickly ramping up production, Airbus wants to say yet. 548 orders have already been received, from 2018 to ten copies each month to leave the assembly lines. At the same time, Airbus is the production of similarly sized, conventional long-haul A330 aircraft further. Both aircraft to compete with the Boeing models 777 and 787, nicknamed the "Dreamliner" and carries the A350 consists largely of composite materials. "Since the announcement of 787 in 2004, we have sold more A330s than ever before," said Leahy. The upcoming Airbus chief Fabrice Brégier expects the model in the coming decade, still good business. In the medium-range planes Leahy looks at the success of the Airbus A320neo the cards in the competition for the rival Boeing 737 newly mixed, "Boeing can keep the current market allocation of 50 to 50 only if they squander their powerful 737 with rebates." Last year, Airbus had its U.S. rival set with the A320neo in a tight spot: It was not until the Europeans within a few months, orders for more than 1,000 copies of the trimmed to save fuel "neo" waved chose Boeing, the 737 under the name 737-MAX also make new engines with more fuel efficient. Each of the manufacturers now claims to be renewed model has the lowest operating costs. Airbus in orders to date is far in front, 2011 was the market share of Europeans in the segment at 70 percent. The medium-range jets get through the lowest profit margins, however, make the world from about 70 percent of the aircraft market. Leahy expects the contract to continue dancing for the A320 family. China alone is expected this year, the manager orders for more than 100 medium-haul jets. |
Originally Posted by blackmamba
(Post 18640818)
This is really odd. Is CX under the control of China's Aeronautical Board?
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Cathay has always indicated that it would be reviewing its ULH requirements this year including the A380 and the B748. John Slosar said as much in a WSJ article a couple of days ago (google news "Cathay Pacific" and it will come up).
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Originally Posted by percysmith
(Post 18640801)
Cathay Pacific or HK Airlines I wonder?
It's just that the A380 is such a bad fit for CX (operations-wise) and good fit for HX (market positioning- and egos-wise) that I really think the German magazine might have mistook the hint and named the wrong airline! |
After talking to a 744 CX pilot he did mention a possibility of A380 orders as well. He also told me that they (CX pilots) call the A380 the "v-word". :D
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There is always the possibility of an order, but the most likely roue is put off A380 or 748I orders until the 777X is available and order it.
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Originally Posted by Jimgotkp
(Post 18644267)
After talking to a 744 CX pilot he did mention a possibility of A380 orders as well. He also told me that they (CX pilots) call the A380 the "v-word". :D
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You meant to write "Cathay Potential A380 Disaster", because that's what the orders will mean, a disaster for CX's overhead. If they think they couldn't sustain their old 747s now, imagine how those gas-guzzling A380 will look like in another economic downturn...
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Originally Posted by N830MH
(Post 18644551)
So...the pilot told you about orders the entire A380? When they did happen? Maybe A380-900?
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Originally Posted by Cathay Boy
You meant to write "Cathay Potential A380 Disaster", because that's what the orders will mean, a disaster for CX's overhead. If they think they couldn't sustain their old 747s now, imagine how those gas-guzzling A380 will look like in another economic downturn...
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A380 has a horrible track record with engine blowouts. With so few A380 flights and so many in-air issues, would CX really consider to add them?
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I doubt it any purchase of the A380 would be considered this year, not unless the price is WAY too good to be ignored.
I would assume CX is looking at the 777x than jumbo planes. |
Originally Posted by KrazyTrain18
(Post 18644444)
There is always the possibility of an order, but the most likely roue is put off A380 or 748I orders until the 777X is available and order it.
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If anything, the 748i seems to make more sense since they operate the freighter version, and for maintenance purposes, it's essentially one fleet type.
But the bigger question, as has already been raised here, is about CX needing something so large. HKG is uniquely positioned (geographically) where it can act a lot like DXB, DOH, etc. from a connection standpoint, so it seems to me serving a bunch of cities with 77Ws would be the better strategy for CX. But then again, what do I know about running an airline. :) |
Originally Posted by 380Flyer
(Post 18651401)
My bets are on CX ordering the Airbus A350-1000.
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Does people still think CX will veer away from their current more frequency but smaller efficient plane versus the one big plane but less frequent trips strategy ?
IMHO, I think the industry and CX particularly, would not go back to four engine except if the route really calls for it (of which there are a lot, regional wise*, but few long haul). In their shoes, I would simply buy more 777, hopefully 787s, and also 350s for regional. (* as an example HKG-MNL has more than five daily flights and some already with 747 in the rotation, but if CX switch to say a A330 or a 777 out of the blue for this route, its not an issue since there would be more frequency). 747s have always been my favorite, but with the 777 a better/at par option both operational efficiency and pax capacity wise, its hard to imagine wanting to go even bigger to like the A380. Me also thinks given that if CX does want >400 pax, it would pick the 747-8I as cargo is supposedly better than the A380 and as fellow posters has indicated, CX already has the Freighter version. |
Originally Posted by midlevels
(Post 18649020)
A380 has a horrible track record with engine blowouts. With so few A380 flights and so many in-air issues, would CX really consider to add them?
I think that A380 is no use for CX unless Airbus sold them super cheap to grab another customer, 777-9X is the way to go. A350-1000 will have to wait for the performance specs, as they are still not finalised. |
Not A350-1000 as even Etihad and Emirates are trying to get rid of it
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rs-from-etihad B777-8x or 9x is definitely the right and wise call, but they won't be operational until the end of the decade as the proposed enhancement hasn't been announcement yet...
Originally Posted by comcats
(Post 18652496)
By the time CX actually gets their proposed A380s, the issues will have been long fixed...
I think that A380 is no use for CX unless Airbus sold them super cheap to grab another customer, 777-9X is the way to go. A350-1000 will have to wait for the performance specs, as they are still not finalised. |
just can not see CX moving to larger planes when they moved away from larger planes...
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Originally Posted by mkjr
(Post 18655004)
just can not see CX moving to larger planes when they moved away from larger planes...
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84O00J20120525
forget engine blowouts, looks like the wings will snap any second... |
Source: http://www.air-cosmos.com/aviation-c...rbus-a380.html
(Translated via Google) Cathay Pacific Airways is still not eager to buy the Airbus A380. "Our strategy is organized around the twin-engine long-haul Airbus A330 and Boeing 777-300ER," said John Slosar, president of the company, upon receipt of an A330-300 in Toulouse, Saturday, June 15 He continued: "Hong Kong is a destination of businessmen. They want first frequency". "Therefore, we prefer to offer three daily frequencies between two destinations rather than," said John Slosar who, polished, not to "insult the future" adding that Cathay Pacific "kept an eye on the A380." His predecessor, Tony Tyler, had been more "brutal". "The A380 means at least one hundred more seats than the 747. Seats need to complete and return with a customer unit revenue higher" he explained. He added: "this category of passengers does not necessarily put a traffic flow smooth enough. Another disadvantage of the A380 is an increased cargo in the hold insufficient. But for Cathay Pacific, freight is an important gives. It now accounts for 30% of our total turnover ". If the A380 does not always interested in Cathay Pacific, the latter logically ordered the A350 at a rate of 36 copies. |
I dont think CX will order A380 because of poor cargo uplift performance. SQ A380 with full pax flying to Australia, does not have any payload for cargo. On the other hand, 777-300ER is more cargo friendly.
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(Not directly related to CX but still relevant to CX's decision whether to buy 380 or not) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-dwindles.html
I'm glad CX hasn't gone for the A380 yet and won't go soon. No point suffering excessive fuel bills on the A380 will then have to be recovered on us passengers as a whole. |
Originally Posted by percysmith
(Post 18915072)
(Not directly related to CX but still relevant to CX's decision whether to buy 380 or not) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-dwindles.html
I'm glad CX hasn't gone for the A380 yet and won't go soon. No point suffering excessive fuel bills on the A380 will then have to be recovered on us passengers as a whole. |
This too (tho this is from The Bearded One)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-optimism.html Adding bigger planes such as the six Airbus SAS (EAD) A380s that Virgin Atlantic has on order would help squeeze more traffic out of the carrier’s limited slots, though business passengers tend to prefer a range of departures and the current global economic situation isn’t ideal for the model, Branson said. “I think the A380s in this current climate we will delay further, because there’s a recession going on,” he said. “What we want are slightly smaller, slightly more efficient planes.” |
Not to mention the current teething issues with the aircraft. Afterall, its the first aircraft for Arbus in the jumbo market. As far as the A350's go, I think its a safe bet. I guess they learned their mistakes from the flaws of the A345/A346. The A330's have hit the right notes for CX and apparently CX is in love with them. So the A350's will just hit the right note for them I predict.
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Originally Posted by maortega15
(Post 18915629)
Not to mention the current teething issues with the aircraft. Afterall, its the first aircraft for Arbus in the jumbo market. As far as the A350's go, I think its a safe bet. I guess they learned their mistakes from the flaws of the A345/A346. The A330's have hit the right notes for CX and apparently CX is in love with them. So the A350's will just hit the right note for them I predict.
Still wished CX have gotten some B787s to replace their regional fleets with. These regional planes are simply a joke that they really needed to go. Speaking of which, it's time for CX to seriously update their regional Biz class product. Even China Eastern's J product is starting to be as good as CX's J product. That's simply a joke to be able to put both of them in the same sentence. |
Personally I prefer the A330s over 777s. Airbuses are so much quieter anywhere in the cabin.
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Originally Posted by Cathay Boy
(Post 18928885)
B777-300ER are superior over against A330s in every which way. I don't know how CX can fall in love with an inferior plane. I suspect the only reason for A350s purchase is the heavy discount. Airlines don't disclosed them but read the latest Wall Street Journal article on them. Airlines regularly get 30-60% off market listed price. I won't be surprise if Airbus given CX 50-60% off these A350-1000s that no one wanted to buy in 4 years.
Still wished CX have gotten some B787s to replace their regional fleets with. These regional planes are simply a joke that they really needed to go. Speaking of which, it's time for CX to seriously update their regional Biz class product. Even China Eastern's J product is starting to be as good as CX's J product. That's simply a joke to be able to put both of them in the same sentence. But from internal sources, we are looking at the 787-10 to replace the regional 773's. And I say again, new regional seats are in the works!! Announcement should be later this year or next. The regional aircraft still have life in them so I hear where you are comming from. I feel the same way. |
Originally Posted by Guy Betsy
(Post 18928938)
Personally I prefer the A330s over 777s. Airbuses are so much quieter anywhere in the cabin.
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Back on topic, another reason we ordered the -1000 is for crew efficiency. For example as demand increases to Australia we can sub an A330 with the A350 while having the same cabin product, we can change from a -900 to -1000 for winter and summer operations in places like AKL, JNB, FCO, AMS, CDG. Our crew based in AKL are on the Airbus. They are not that efficient in summer when the 744 is used. With the A350, we can use the same crew to operate both the -900/-1000 and still provide reserve coverage for A330 flights in Australia. In short terms, if you want to up capacity, you don't have to swap out a flight with a completely different aircraft. You can just use a slightly larger variant. Just like the 772 and 773.
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You sound like zeke at somewhere? :-p |
Originally Posted by maortega15
(Post 18929129)
And CX loves the A330 for medium haul ops.
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Originally Posted by Awesom Andy
(Post 18933341)
As do most other airlines. For medium density, mid-haul ops, the A330s is the best you can get (unless you can wait for the 787 to arrive - which may be years until you can get a sizable fleet).
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