OT, HK has a lot more saving opportunities. One gets to choose their living standard and style. The frugal ones get to save A LOT! Example: Walmart sells things Made in China cheaper but still makes a huge profit. Buying the same products in HK can be much cheaper due to saving of shipping and labor handling to the US.

Taking advantage of the real estate market is much easier in HK once the first one is off the hook. The properties can be rented out fairly easily (thanks to the very high demand of housing) and the rental income can easily cover at least 70-80% (if not all) of the mortgage payment. This will hardly happen in the US.

Its true.

This thread is in danger of running Off-Topic !!!

Please post only what the topic is otherwise the thread will be closed.


Thank you!


Guy Betsy
Cathay Pacific Asiamiles forum moderator

The union will have their emergency meeting today at 2pm...

We will probably find out more after the meeting

The union may well sense some good PR value particularly in the light of recent events within the global airline industry as discussed previously. (Hence a meeting to 'push things along a little').

http://the-sun.on.cc/cnt/news/20100320/00407_024.html

- 500 employees attended the union's 5 hour emergency meeting
- 400 new union members since the announcement
- Request to talk directly with CEO
- Request CX to put it in writing that the "new swap guideline" is abolished forever, not suspended.
- Request CX to maintain 48 hours rest period at outport after long haul flights (crews' rest time on one of the Milan flights is reduced to only 28 hours)
- Will hold demonstration on Thursday if there's no response from CX by noon on Wed, and they might strike later
- CX has sent someone to talk to the union already.

Based on the next reply the union is doing what typical union is doing: see this as an opportunity to demand the world.

Looks like a strike is unavoidable because it is unlikely CX will back down as CX obviously see the current system as too big of a loophole.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4624591_n.jpg

CXFAU "CX-style" ad.

seriously the only thing i think should happen is to strip the 70 hr pay minimum. they should all be allowed to swap, if they work only HKG-TPE-HKG once a month, they they get paid for that.

The minimum pay is implemented as a protective measure. During the financial crisis, there are a lot of cutback and FAs don't get assigned 70 hours on their roasters. But a few people abused the system. But according to some reports, some FAs have to cut their flying time significantly after work injury so they can have more time to rest.

Having the min pay and fixing the loophole aren't mutually exclusive. CX should communicate better with their staff and find a better way to fix this loophole.

Here's a video report from Apple Daily. It shows clips from the meeting. The FAs shouted "No good person at CX management", "CX exploits employees" (...and I love the animated FAs :p)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V50VzDFc70c

CX has announced they have cancelled and will not reintroduce the guideline related to swapping below the 70 hours minimum as published on March 15. But yet they could not reached a conclusion with the union yet...the union still going to have their rally at CX City today :rolleyes:

Emboldend by BA's union antics perhaps. They wont get much sympathy from the public when the company has backed down.

Was this in the last day or so? I think one of the FAs main concerns now is that the language used was "Deferred indefinitely" not cancelled. Which implies they are going to try to bring it in in the future.

Yup! After 12 hours of meeting with the union, CX suddenly announced this (according to facebook group)

By the way, the union is asking for a signed agreement of that (not going to re-implement the new guidelines) now.

It's tough for anyone to do this. Nothing can be guaranteed forever these days.

I think the union wants the signed agreement mainly because in case CX wants to (and they will) fix the loophole the next time, they will need the union's conset.

I've recently discovered this. BKK-based crew get paid 100 Baht/hr, which is around $20 HKD per hour. This is a great deal of money saved vs. HKG new recruits earning 100 HKD/hr. Obviously, company management would want BKK crew to fly to other destinations to maximize savings.

Does anyone here have a problem with that? They're better and they're cheaper. Which keeps us happy and should keep fares down a bit. I'm all for CX being "Asia's best airline" rather than "just one of China's airlines".

that is true. but i think CX should do this by focusing on service quality output of crews to drive the balance...

I've liked the Thai FAs on my flights, so more power to them.

The variation among the most junior crew on my flights tells me they could use a bit more rigorous screening to justify their premium.

The latest rumor is CX will deploy Singapore based crew on Hong Kong-Japan routes. That's another reason why some of the HK based crew still threaten to strike even after CX has agreed not the implement the new swapping system permanently. They want outport crews to only fly on flights to/from their country unless there's a language need.

Considering the English language skills of many of the young crew leave much to be desired, they may not want to argue the language point.

I think they meant language other than English and Chinese. For example, if there's a large group of Thai speaking passengers on flight to LAX, they don't mind CX deploying Thailand based crew on that flight :rolleyes:

sxc's point is valid - the Thai and Singaporean (and Indian, Filipino, Malaysian, and even Japanese, Korean, whatever) crews generally have far better English than most of the Mongkok shop girls.

I have no problem whatsoever with CX taking advantage of the fact that they can get better crew for less money in places other than Hong Kong.

Well, on the other hand, they say they are "deeply committed to Hong Kong"..:rolleyes:

An not sure if using BKK/SIN based crews on ex-HKG flights are considered as labor import. If that's the case, there will be limits on how many FAs CX can "imports" and that probably will be enough protection for the HKG based crews?

But deep commitment to HK doesn't mean putting up with substandard service quality. It's only within the past 2-3 years that I've noticed a deterioration in the junior crew's service finesse (always on my HKG-LHR flights, though).

It makes me wonder how CX's training programme seems to have left those recruits relatively rough.

Things aren't going great. CX did not shows up for the meeting with the union yesterday. The union wants their new ex-co member who is not a CX employee to sit in the meeting (just to listen) but CX refused. They have reschedule the meeting for today and the union agrees to remove the non-cx employee ex-co from the attendee list

The junior crews seems to be hit and miss. On the same flight back I had a wonderful female junior crew, and a horrific male junior crew who doesn't even bother to hide his displeasure with facial expressions. He is especially restless with the mandarin speaking pax.

I too am wondering if these are just the exception or the norms of future CX FAs.

The union's latest message to its members. I would recommend watching the Cantonese version if you speaks Cantonese...sounds like the union will take further actions soon

English version: http://www.youtube.com/user/happyval.../0/Eq9CxG7yUDw
Chinese version: http://www.youtube.com/user/happyval.../1/b9vgRVqQ5iE

Sxxt just read talks collapsed and the FA union's going to vote on a strike over Easter.

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/realti...rt_id=13889609

I'm to catch a flight to KUL tomorrow and come back on Tue...I'm not too worried about tmw's flight but am deeply worried about being stuck in KUL.

Anyone have any idea whether a flight can take off without FAs?

That's against safety regulations. Anyway, don't be worried, there are literally hundreds of options for the KUL route and if necessary SIN.

Thanks


News just in - FA Union to call meeting on Monday and a strike could follow on Tuesday 6. Oh dear...

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/realti...rt_id=13889905

CRAP! I'm traveling with two important clients on the 7th, and they are looking forward to flying CX for the first time, CRAP!

Didn't I warn you strike might be coming? And you put TWO IMPORTANT clients on CX with you :confused:

Umm...this doesn't sound too good...Hope they can sort this all out as I am also flying out on the 9th.....

For those who said they have no sympathy for the cabin crew or that they think there is nothing wrong with the no swaping for <70 hours polcy, you guys probably do not understand the background of the issue.

Before 97, CX cabin crew are usually monthly salary crew who has a fixed monthly flying hours and anything over that amount will be consider over time. CX want to cut over time cost, by introducing hourly pay crew, in effect, there will be no over time payment, crew will be pay according to the hours flown but with a minimum of 70 hours pay. This has work well for CX on their cost cutting point of view but it greatly reduce CX cabin crew pay above as there are no more over time. Now 13 years later, CX notice that they are paying duplicate work because some cabin crew decided to work less than 70 hours and yet recieve 70 hours pay, while others who work more than 70 hours are costing the company extra money. However, this is all within the contract that was initially drafted by CX because they want to cut cost. This time around, they want to change the contract that they imposed on all new CX cabin crew because they saw this so call loophole... However for CX cabin crew who are sign onto this contract, this is not a loophole at all, this is their contractual right! So in effect, CX is unilaterally trying to change someone contract to cut cost... So what happen is that the Flight Attendent union simply ask, CX to return to the old montly salary crew contract and then this swaping below 70 hours will not be an issue... You see what people from the outside do not understand is that CX are the one who created this mess... Cabin Crew has never ask to have hourly contract, but CX thought they could cut cost so that's why they introduce it... Now it is just another cost cutting measure by CX... If hourly crew was never introduced 13 years ago, this problem will have never exisiting in the first place... So CX can blame their cabin crew all they want but CX management are the one who created this mess in the first place and they are the one who has created this loophole by offering hourly crew so they should suffer their consequences and they should not be allow to change the rule once again!

As for overseas based crew operating long haul flight... The reason why HK based crew are complaining is because the average HK based crew makes avout 12K including allowance... Without allowance, at 70 hours at $90 to $110 an hour, a HK base crew salary will drop to $7000 to $8000 a month... Which makes it very difficult to live in HK especially when considering the cost of transportation to go to work at the airport... So this is why CX hong kong based crew are complaining...

CX is very good at bending the truth... So a lot of the stuff is not really what they seem and the flight Attendent definitily has their reason on why they might go on stike!

Finally for those who are wondering what does 70 hours per month means...
Some people claim the clock on time starts 2 or 3 hours before a flight... That is actually false... For the purpose of Flight Time Limitation and Rest Requirements, the duty start time does indeed start 1:30 before departure... And until 30 mins after engine shutdown... However for the purpose of PAY/Salary... The actually salary clock starts at Engine Start until Engine Shutdown... So any delay it is not pay... This is another way CX cheat (cost cut) their employee... This same formula apply to both Cabin Crew and Cockpit crew... So in reality, 70 hours a month actually means working for a lot more than 70 hours... In some cases, depending on the pattern or if there are a lot of turn around flight... 70 hours could equal to 120 to 140 hours of work on the airplane... A goo example will be a Taipei turn around... Cabin Crew get pay for 2 hours (1 hour flight time there and back), but they will start work 1:30 before departure... Turn the aircraft around during the 2 hours ground time in Taipei and then pax deboarding and afterland check... So for 2 hours pay, but cabin crew actually worked for 6 hours... I hope people will now get the point and understand the cabin crew frustration...

Let me say, I do have sympathy for the FAs overall.

But it doesn't make sense to revisit something that was in place 13 years ago - the world was a different place then. Indeed, 13 years ago, Hong Kong was still under British rule - how about we also go back to that?

So, the most productive thing is to see where things are now, and move forward, based on current circumstances.

What are your recommendations that cut costs/increase profits for CX, and also allows FAs more flexibility?