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C1 offer to convert Venture X to a charge card.

C1 offer to convert Venture X to a charge card.

Old May 15, 2023, 11:04 pm
  #16  
 
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There definitely has to be different economics and doubtful reserves if a card is a charge versus credit, but it must be a brand issue. I can't see how else Capital One is losing the battle for super premium marketshare with VX. I agree going to charge doesn't help the end consumer because they will still make a gametime approval decision. I can only see it helping their financial books. I also know they are continuing to look at opportunities to reduce unused credit by doing automatic reviews. These are not characteristics of a premium issuer.

I think they just don't have the team depth compared to AmEx and Chase (which is primarily ex AmEx).

So many questionable decisions.
Coffee Cafes open to everyone?
Young and hopefully low spenders (Taylor Swift sponsorship or iheart affiliation)?
Not prestige cobranded (Kohls, Walmart, etc.)

Maybe getting their own forum here seemed promising, but we are dedicating a forum for maybe 2 or 3 cards in their entire portfolio.

If there wasn't already a banking crisis or they has a much higher average cardholder profile, they would be an acquisition target. But now, it is way cheaper for another issuer just to get their good customers to go elsewhere. Or maybe they are positioning to sell just the Venture portfolio by changing how it is profiled?
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Old May 16, 2023, 9:17 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
Thatd be pretty mind blowing seeing C1 86 their lounges (because if youre not pushing the VX, why would you keep the lounges?) and keeping the VX on life support like the RC card (Chase) and the Citi Prestige
Originally Posted by rasheed
There definitely has to be different economics and doubtful reserves if a card is a charge versus credit, but it must be a brand issue. I can't see how else Capital One is losing the battle for super premium marketshare with VX.
Conclusions regarding Capital One's ultimate success with Venture X seem premature. From what I can tell from financial disclosures they are still working to grow the premium card business (and at least claim to have made progress).

Not sure I'd characterize the RC card as "on life support", either. I sense the card was sidelined when Amex secured an exclusive for the most premium Bonvoy product...that could change at some point, conceivably, but there's no indication Chase wants to shut it down.

Citi...who knows what they're up to. I don't think they know what to do with the premium segment. AA brings a ton of business to the executive card, and they do little to optimize opportunities with that base, IMHO.

In addition, the fact that Capital One continues to market to a mass audience (and play on its historical strengths) does not necessarily mean it's incapable of developing a premium customer base. Chase, BofA, Citi all have a diverse product line.
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Old May 17, 2023, 5:06 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by NYC Flyer
Conclusions regarding Capital One's ultimate success with Venture X seem premature. From what I can tell from financial disclosures they are still working to grow the premium card business (and at least claim to have made progress).
Sure, Citi did their big push on Prestige in 2014-2015, and didn't close it to new applicants until 2021, though there were significant cuts in benefits like the 4th night free as they went along. We're already seeing benefits like Priority Pass restaurants get nerfed on the C1 side. I would not at all be shocked to see the annual fee get jacked up to $550 at some point, and to see more benefit cuts.

Originally Posted by NYC Flyer
Not sure I'd characterize the RC card as "on life support", either. I sense the card was sidelined when Amex secured an exclusive for the most premium Bonvoy product...that could change at some point, conceivably, but there's no indication Chase wants to shut it down..
Chase hasn't shut down everyone's existing Freedom cards either, even though they clearly want to transition to Freedom Flex. Neither Freedom nor RC card are being actively marketed, just like the $95 Bonvoy AMEX card (which also isn't being shut down). I consider a card you don't actively market and have to do gyrations to get to "on life support". Whether Chase pulls the plug or not is yet to be determined.
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Old May 18, 2023, 3:11 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by NYC Flyer
Not sure I'd characterize the RC card as "on life support", either. I sense the card was sidelined when Amex secured an exclusive for the most premium Bonvoy product...that could change at some point, conceivably, but there's no indication Chase wants to shut it down.
The Chase Ritz-Carlton Rewards Card is healthy and profitable. Notice that it recently was granted the most generous guest benefit for the new Chase Sapphire Lounges. It operates as a legacy premium Bonvoy product. Amex paid for the exclusive right to market a top-tier product to new cardmembers. Chase retains its right to service "existing" R-C cardmembers. Bonvoy and Amex certainly are aware that Chase is very creatively taking advantage of this loophole through product changes.
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Old May 18, 2023, 5:48 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by WasKnown
Sadly, product level reporting is not publicly available information. I have strong reason to believe the Venture X was very strong on new account acquisition (but not purchase volume) in 2022 but has not fared well (net lost accounts) in 2023.
I am reading betwen the lines and not disputing the undercurrents you mention, but looking at their Q1 earnings call transcript,
In the first quarter, strong year-over-year growth in every top-line metric continued in our domestic card business
.
Purchase volume increased 10% over Q122 and ending loans grew over 20%. Full year 2022 results for the domestic card business were pretty consistent with this. Yes, delinquencies/expected write offs have increased, but management cited "normalization" trending back to pre-pandemic (2019) levels. Again, it's hard to understand what's specifically going on with Venture X within the context of the overall business from the disclosures.

Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
We're already seeing benefits like Priority Pass restaurants get nerfed on the C1 side. I would not at all be shocked to see the annual fee get jacked up to $550 at some point, and to see more benefit cuts.
Tweaking benefits/fees to reach profitability goals is common with all the issuers. I don't see how the loss of PP restaurants is indicative of Capital One abandoning their premium initiative. They have also recently reaffirmed access to Virgin lounges, while Amex has dropped out of at least a few notable ones. Could the fee increase? Sure, given the effective out of pocket fee is approaching zero currenty. Still, I don't see the basis for imminent concern about "jacked" fees or benefit changes that will materially alter the value proposition of the card.

Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
I consider a card you don't actively market and have to do gyrations to get to "on life support". Whether Chase pulls the plug or not is yet to be determined.
Originally Posted by dayone
The Chase Ritz-Carlton Rewards Card is healthy and profitable. Notice that it recently was granted the most generous guest benefit for the new Chase Sapphire Lounges.
Also remember, the card just got an enhanced annual free-night award with no change to the annual fee. Perhaps we could say Chase is nursing this portfolio--keeping it relevant in hopes of another crack at marketing a premium Bonvoy card to new applicants. It's definitely not on life support.
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Last edited by NYC Flyer; May 18, 2023 at 5:51 pm Reason: gr
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Old May 27, 2023, 8:07 pm
  #21  
 
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CSP and Amex platinum are not worth it unless they are only used for travel. Many, including myself, don't spend this way. So 2X on everything is far better than the CSP junk. I am churning AP and will close it this summer.

Originally Posted by WasKnown
As surprising as it may be to people in the points and miles game, the active account figures for the Venture X are not satisfactory. Capital One is not very good at underwriting prime and super prime customers and is even worse at figuring out how to monetize them. Im not too impressed with their attempt to convert select users to charge cards in an attempt (presumably) to drive more interchange revenue. Time will tell if this proves to be a winning strategy. Methinks the answer is no.

What Chase has accomplished with the Sapphire cards (particularly the CSP in recent years) is nothing short of incredible. I dont expect them to lead the charge for anything because they simply do not have to.

Amex is definitely playing a different game from every other issuer (though we are seeing some convergence). The real winner is Visa, who has been crushing analyst expectations earnings season after earnings season. During the great Meta capitulation, Visa market cap even flipped meta to become a top 10 company by market cap.
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Old May 28, 2023, 6:08 pm
  #22  
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The Business Venture X is treated as a Charge card - if you show them charging capacity
My business rep told me that they look at charges in 1st 3 months as an indicator of credit to be offered for the charge cards.

P#2 has a Cash Plus - charge card and the line went up after 3-4 months
Prior to that I had to pay mid cycle and the credit line was released same day or next day.

C1 will not offer a Business Venture X to the Cash Plus crowd. They only offer one "charge" card to a person
So if you get an offer for the Venture X, I think you will not get a cash Plus later.
My real question is does the OP have a Cash Plus as well or just the Venture X alone and good spend volume
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Old Jun 24, 2023, 4:05 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by ffI
The Business Venture X is treated as a Charge card - if you show them charging capacity
My business rep told me that they look at charges in 1st 3 months as an indicator of credit to be offered for the charge cards.

P#2 has a Cash Plus - charge card and the line went up after 3-4 months
Prior to that I had to pay mid cycle and the credit line was released same day or next day.

C1 will not offer a Business Venture X to the Cash Plus crowd. They only offer one "charge" card to a person
So if you get an offer for the Venture X, I think you will not get a cash Plus later.
My real question is does the OP have a Cash Plus as well or just the Venture X alone and good spend volume
i would like to see any DPs here about holding BOTH the biz venture X and CPlus cards. whether applied for X first or 2nd and see if that rule holds true.

also, i had no clue personal X can become a charge card. is this targeted? i would def convert. visa charge card is a HUGE benefit vs amex.
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Old Jun 24, 2023, 5:25 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by GundamWing01
..... visa charge card is a HUGE benefit vs amex.
How so?
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Old Jun 24, 2023, 10:00 pm
  #25  
 
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Has anyone heard anymore about this conversion becoming more widely available? I tried calling Capital One about it yesterday and the representative I spoke to had heard nothing about it. She asked if I could read the email to her and of course I couldn't find any snapshots of the email online when she asked.
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Old Jun 25, 2023, 3:07 pm
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Originally Posted by mia
How so?
biggest and simplest reason is for network acceptance globally for large purchases. not everything accepts amex. although for reputable vendors where such large volume is common, amex is almost always accepted, but it also helps to split large volume of txn on different banks. i dont want everything on AMEX and get FR. another key are rewards. cap1 pts are valuable to me vs chase ink premier visa. its only CB. but if it was UR, i would get it asap.

Originally Posted by DavidTos
Has anyone heard anymore about this conversion becoming more widely available? I tried calling Capital One about it yesterday and the representative I spoke to had heard nothing about it. She asked if I could read the email to her and of course I couldn't find any snapshots of the email online when she asked.
looks to be highly targeted. i would like to see email as well.
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Old Jun 25, 2023, 5:31 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by GundamWing01
biggest and simplest reason is for network acceptance globally for large purchases. ,,,,
Can you not do this with a credit card? A charge card does not necessarily have a higher spending limit, it simply has different repayment terms. Chase did briefly issue a charge card, INK Bold, but they converted to credit cards.

Last edited by mia; Jun 25, 2023 at 10:14 pm
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Old Jun 25, 2023, 8:59 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by GundamWing01
i would like to see any DPs here about holding BOTH the biz venture X and CPlus cards. whether applied for X first or 2nd and see if that rule holds true.
also, i had no clue personal X can become a charge card. is this targeted? i would def convert. visa charge card is a HUGE benefit vs amex.
I had to close the Cash Plus before being sent the link for the business Venture X
Got the 150k bonus x2 so far.

The real question in my mind is whether to get all 8-9 go all in on the 150k bonus for 30k spend over the coming year
or spend 500k with a lot of MS help for the 300k bonus
We are leaning to the 30k for 150k bonus x 9 model = each 30k gets 7 points / $ spend
= effectively 10% rebate on spend after transfers during bonus offers
There will be another card and another bonus next year to worry about

Last edited by ffI; Jun 25, 2023 at 9:33 pm
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Old Aug 30, 2023, 7:21 pm
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What do you mean all 8-9 to go all in on the 150k bonus? What are the 8-9 you are referring to?

Also seeing the same as others - unable to get a Cash Plus unless I close my Business Venture X. Rep stated only 1 charge card is allowed.
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Old Sep 7, 2023, 8:33 pm
  #30  
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Multiplayer mode with family and close friends. It is much better for 9 trusted people to do 30k spend each = 270k vs 1 person doing 500k for 1.3M miles
Unike Chase the points are freely transferable, so if I can put 30k spend on my brother's card, I can get the 210k points (60@ 2x + 150k bonus) sent to me the next day.
210x9=1890 points for 270k spend @2.625c lost cash = basically 6 points per 2.625c = about 0.4375c before cost of annual fees.
Factor in transfer bonuses (which I never thought I would see on Cap 1 and Citi) and the return on spend is huge.
Originally Posted by mcass
What do you mean all 8-9 to go all in on the 150k bonus? What are the 8-9 you are referring to?
Also seeing the same as others - unable to get a Cash Plus unless I close my Business Venture X. Rep stated only 1 charge card is allowed.
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